Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zazozazo on October 17, 2021, 09:31:44
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Good morning all,
I have an the option 565 ( Sideways Rear Seat) on a nut and bolt restoration MB 230 SL manual of 64.
Is this a desirable and rare option ?
If this was omitted in the restoration, and the footwell is still there, is it worth the hassle of reintroducing it to the car?
Thank you
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Whilst i would not call it rare, it is a quirk of the Pagoda and not something that should be left out in a restoration if it is data carded.
My 1965 230sl had one and I have made sure it was included in the interior restoration.
Garry
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I have one on my Euro ‘68. It is blast to ride in……you likely didn’t have a chance……do not remove!
Bill
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Thank you Bill :-)
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I think the kinder seat is a cool option!
I bought one to put in the wife's pagoda just for the cool factor!
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Rare? No.
Desirable? Not really.
Safe? Hell no!
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Just a quick comment about Kinder-seats: every kinder-seat that I have seen has been on a European market car. It seems that it might have been a very popular or maybe a "thrown-in" dealer incentive option? Opinions?
jb
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Over half of the W113's I've owned had option 565 "Kinder seat". They were all US market cars. Since the factory data card listed the option 565 it could not have been a dealer "throw in". I used to think it was a nice option, but it's very unsafe for a child to be sitting back there.
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I'm with John. I am by far not the safest person on the planet and have scars and missing digits to prove it but using the soft top compartment cover as a head restraint for a small child is a bad idea. An adult in a rear end collision would have the full force applied to the side of their spine and neck,
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This thread just reminded me of a funny/sad childhood memory 🤣🤣
When I was 12 and sister was 10 our family had a 280SE and 280sl. We planned on going to the Rose Bowl. It’s about a 2 hour drive from San Diego.
The 280SE unexpectedly wouldn’t start that day.
My 6’6” father stuffed me in the back of the 280sl (soft top up) on the parcel shelves. My mother stuck a pillow over the center console box and wedged my sister in between the seats. The seat belts were not used. Off we went.
It was the 70’s. 🤣🤣😱😱
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My kinder seat also has the wooden parcel shelf. Is that common?
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My 250 SL originally went to Italy. It has no 565 code on the data card.....but it does have the Kinder seat along with the parcel shelf over the foot area. Someone suggested to me the Kinder seat was a dealer added feature. Wish I knew for sure what took place.
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My 250 SL originally went to Italy. It has no 565 code on the data card.....but it does have the Kinder seat along with the parcel shelf over the foot area. Someone suggested to me the Kinder seat was a dealer added feature. Wish I knew for sure what took place.
Thanks Don. Mine was also an Italian car with no code on the data card (as I remember). Does your have carpet in the footwell? Mine did not. I have pieces with my new carpet kit for the footwell but they don’t seem to fit real well.
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Along with adding headrests, I happily encourage my customers to delete the child seat where fitted.
It's a ridiculously dangerous place for anyone to sit in my view.
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Back to you, John, with your question..."does yours have carpet in the footwell"?
When I bought my Italian car in 1983 it had original carpets including the footwell. I have since replaced the original and the new carpet kit (back in late 80's) also came with footwell pieces.
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I'm with John. I am by far not the safest person on the planet and have scars and missing digits to prove it but using the soft top compartment cover as a head restraint for a small child is a bad idea. An adult in a rear end collision would have the full force applied to the side of their spine and neck,
Not to mention if there was a head on accident there is a likely of meeting of heads between driver and rear seated occupant! 😱😱
If the modern version of tinker, tailor, soldier, sky, an adult is sitting in the back !!!
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Back to you, John, with your question..."does yours have carpet in the footwell"?
When I bought my Italian car in 1983 it had original carpets including the footwell. I have since replaced the original and the new carpet kit (back in late 80's) also came with footwell pieces.
Thanks Don.
I carpeted my parcel shelf and will Wait for pagodafest Chicago to see how the carpet pieces should fit together in the footwell.
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This guy has been riding along with me for years.
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Considering that all "collectable" cars' value is connected to the amount of options installed, I consider the "Kindersitz" a valuable option and I encourage everybody who has one that is shown as an option on the data card to keep it.
It is only unsafe or dangerous as long as you let someone sit in it. If you don't it is perfectly safe and increases the value of the car.
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I have to agree on the “safety” aspect of such seat. Than the fun factor (11 on the 0-10 scale) and the memories that I got thanks to it - PRICELESS!
My uncle had that option on his W107 when I was a kid. My two cousins, my brother, his friend and myself managed to get in the back no problem. I would definitely throw in few extra bucks for those memories.
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Could anyone put up a sketch or photos of the kinder seat, please.
Regards
Chris
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Here you go 🤣
https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=pagoda+kinder+seat+images
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Hi All,
This is an interesting topic but let's not get to excited with health and safety issues regarding the side-on rear seat. I agree with Mike S point of view that if you feel anything is unsafe on your car then don't use it, just use common sense and no one will get hurt . These seats are not just an add on conquered up by dealerships but by the design crew at MB with numerous sheets of technical drawings to high specification and singed off by the QA controller. We are custodians of these ancient old vehicles and it's our duty to preserve them as best we can and as original as the day they left the factory.
Currently my own 280SL , July 1969 is going through extensive restoration and has such a seat but I wouldn't dream of excluding in the rebuild and believe it would be sacrilege to remove its existence from the Data Card / Birth Certificate.
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When I bought my Italian 230SL in 1987. it had a kinder seat. Later I reupholstered the car, including the kinder seat, in leather. When I restored the car in 2011 - 1019, I bought parcel shelves and matching carpet and put the kinder seat parts in the trunk. Now before each significant event, near or far, I have a decision to take. The change-over takes about 5 minutes without tools. The Data card says Kinder Seats. I now have either.
Tom Kizer
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My car has it and in 18 years has been used twice.
(I’ve told this story on here before…) Second time the occupant was my 6 year old son. He sat there happily as normal until he spotted the car following and in the blink of an eye had formed a pistol out of his fingers and kept shooting the car behind. They laughed their heads off.
It’s stuck with me because for years: certainly all his life, kids have been strapped in forward facing (rear as tiny ones) car seats with harness belts and side impact protection. So he’d never faced any direction but forwards but at the first opportunity and with nothing to copy (maybe an old tv show?) he turned and started shooting the guys behind. As no doubt we all did when we were not wearing seatbelts as our parents drove us around.
In other news, we had a mk1 jag xj6 when I was about 5 and my older siblings and I regularly used to stand with our heads out the sunroof as Dad whizzed along. Probably grateful for the oxygen as mum and dad both smoked like chimneys.
So my kinder seat hasn’t been used again (son is now as tall as me) and is there as the car came with it. I’ve thought about shelves but then I have find somewhere to keep the seat (and back)
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If you'r'e driving in a parade or just down the street, then I see riding in a Kinder seat no worse than being in scooter or motorcycle.
I'm sure one can retrofit a seat belt. Then it's no dangerous than riding in any open air car of that era.
Seat belts were mandatory in 1966 in the USA from what I understand.
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Seat belts mandatory for front seats only, maybe. ???
I don't really get the "safety" arguments. You are all driving a convertible. Any of you safety-proponents figure what happens when you roll your car in an accident?
I suggest you immediately start refraining from driving your Pagoda or install a roll-bar before your next outing 8)
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As a retired surgeon, I can not tell you just how many serious head and neck injuries I saw from improper, (and/or lack of), seat belt use. Lap and shoulder belts are meant to be worn with the person facing frontwards, not sideways. This is not a case of "rolling your Pagoda". It's a case of potential serious injury from an impact accident. A roll bar won't help you from an impact accident at moderate to high speeds. Kinder seats were a neat option, and yes, parade speeds are probably safe, but let's not kid ourselves about the safety of kinder seats.
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I think the seat is cool to have as a conversation piece, but I would never really use it to sit in.
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You are all driving a convertible. Any of you safety-proponents figure what happens when you roll your car in an accident?
Depending on the severity of the crash, I'd suggest that a Pagoda can support itself by the front windshield and its frame. No car or safety device will protect all occupants from all crashes.
Too bad for those genetically tall whose head sticks up too high.
We ought to call it a parade seat for that's about all it's good for...and a novelty item as well.
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My point about the roll-bar was not that it would prevent the passengers from all accidents. All I was trying to say was, that the W113, based when it was made, is a inherently unsafe car to today's standards and I cannot buy the arguments about the Kindersitz being unsafe while some of you (with early models) even drive around without seatbelts.
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...being unsafe while some of you (with early models) even drive around without seatbelts.
EXACTLY. Perhaps one of the very first things I did during the planning of the restoration of my car--which now dates back 20 years ago--was investigate not "seat belts" (it had the original, crappy OEM lap belts not worth a darn) but proper 3-point belts. Lap belts don't cut it, in my opinion, as one who went through the windshield of an MGC once that didn't have even those. ONLY 3-pointers would matter. Luckily there was that old TSB (technical service bulletin) on the installation of retractable three-point lap belts using Mercedes-Benz engineered, tested and approved parts.
I won't get in a car without them.
Funny about all these "safety" related issues that polarized the car world back years ago. They've pretty much all been adopted by everyone. USA specs are not the only cars with seat belts or air bags or passive crash design. Everyone got religion and cars today are so much safer than they were years ago. In 1987, when I moved to Michigan and my wife, working for Ford, went to buy her first Ford, we got a deal on one with airbags because they couldn't sell them (as an optionally priced item); now, even if they weren't mandated, they probably couldn't sell a car without them. I'll take as much and as many safety items in a car as they come up with. The taste of glass is still in my mouth.