Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: JamesL on October 14, 2021, 08:45:59
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I don’t know if anyone has actually had a fire (engine/fuel) etc, but they can be properly terminal.
Does anyone carry a fire extinguisher (Pagoda or otherwise) and if so, where, what sort etc
Or am I unduly worried, being from the land of Prince Lucas of Darkness?
Thx
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Yes I have a fire extinguisher. A small one filled with gas, no foam, as this will also destroy the car/engine. It is in the trunk of the car.
I don’t think it’s too unduly worried. A fire, if not attacked immediately, will destroy the car.
Peter
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https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KAO63G/ref=as_li_ss_il?ie=UTF8&linkCode=li3&tag=firefighte06b-20&linkId=0d00dfb538eb55c9e1a4dc880bce89e0&language=en_US
This is the best type of extinguisher for a classic/expensive car, used in the aviation industry as it's non corrosive. Needs to be securely fixed with a bracket, you don't want a pressurized container rolling around in a car. These are not as efficient as an ABC dry chemical, but it's a compromise against damage by the fire or damage caused by the extinguisher!
"The aviation industry needed a solution that was non-corrosive to their airplanes, so they went to halotron.
H3R produces UL-certified halotron extinguishers for the everyday consumer market. They’re the go-to extinguisher brand for sports car enthusiasts today"
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Hi James
I have one of these, latest technology for our 50 year old cars.
https://www.1stracerallying.co.uk/50-second-fire-safety-stick
Expensive, but small to store in the car, and inert.
Paul
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I carry one in all my vehicles.
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Regarding car fires and their extinguishment, here's an article I wrote last year for a Porsche site: https://www.912bbs.org/forum/ams/fire-and-the-912-porsche-%E2%80%93-an-overview-of-fire-and-fire-extinguishers.3/
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Here's one the group was introduced to recently, that a few of us purchased - Element fire extinguisher
https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/PELELEE50.htm (https://www.pelicanparts.com/More_Info/PELELEE50.htm)
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I have a customer who had an engine fire in his 190SL. He was able to put it out with a dry chemical extinguisher but it made a real mess. Everything in the engine bay had to come out and be gone through. Engine, starter, generator, and new carbs. The right extinguisher would have helped, I'm sure.
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You asked if anyone had had a fire. The answer is yes but in a restored 40 year-old V12 Ferrari on a Quebec, Canada back road at just about Midnight. That morning I had spent a couple of hours doing a triple carburetor air flow synchronization and fuel tuning while idling with an auxiliary fan in front of the radiator to keep the engine from overheating. I didn't even think about running the battery down due to low speed "undercharging" while idling.
That afternoon, I calmly drove about 30 miles to a picnic at low speed, probably further depleting the battery.
On the way back home at midnight, I was in a hurry so I drove fast. I overheated the electrical system in the engine compartment and inside the cockpit due to overcharging a depleted battery. The wiring caught fire, blew half the fuses and everything went black, except for the fire itself. I had an extinguisher which I used under the hood, but fortunately the fire self-extinguished inside the cockpit.
I was being followed by a friend so we used his phone to call a tow truck which got me home at about 1:30 am. It cost me lots of cash, about 100 feet of various gages of wire and about 6 months of underhood and cockpit work in my garage before taking it back on the road.
My advice: Always, Always, Always carry an extinguisher when you drive an old car, even if it is restored. Since then, mine has been mounted on the floor under my knees when I drive.
Tom Kizer
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I also have an Element, Velcroed on the floor under the front of the passenger seat.
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My car has an Element in the center tray and a quick release Halguard under the front seat. I hope they never have to be used but just in case.
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Hi James,
I have the same as Paul & Dolly in all my vehicles and one at home. If you can watch the video you will see why. Brilliant and very compact. I have it mounted right in front of the drivers seat for quick and easy access. We all hope that we never have to use one but my worst nightmare is having a fire and then being helpless to do anything, at the very least it will give you a fire fighting chance. Better safe than sorry.
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For all rallies I do you MUST have an approved fire extinguisher in the cabin (not in the trunk or boot). Mine is mounted securely in front of the passenger seat, where I can reach it in seconds. I've had it for about 10 years now so I'd better check its expiry date and maybe invest in one of those fire-sticks.
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Here it is also a general regulation for all cars a fire extinguisher with valid technical control is required to be fixed within the hand reach of a driver.
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I carry a 90 second Fire Safety Stick recommended to me by Paul, spec looks good but of course I don't know how good until if and when I have to use it! :-[
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Considering the most common causes of automobile fires, a readably accessible battery disconnect switch is just as important as an on-board fire extinguisher.
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I once had an engine fire in a 1980's Ford Pinto, on a highway offramp (I-95 in Boca Raton, FL) it must have been 1986. After I opened the hood the flames got bigger (more oxygen). Someone in another car had just a bit of water left in his plastic water bottle and that was enough to put the fire out. I think it cost me $500 to get it all fixed, back then. Since then I always carry a fire extinuisher. But, once, maybe a year, later, I passed a pickup truck parked on the side of a road in West Palm Beach, with two guys frantically working to put out an underhood fire in that truck. I thought, great, I can help them out with my extinguisher but as I stopped to begin to do that, they equally frantically began to gesture me to move on and leave. I then thought, great, they probably just stole the truck by short-circuiting something and I better get out of here! True story.
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Just ordered my Element. Thanks
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I also ordered Fire-sticks (from Ireland).
Thanks!
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I heard about a Pagoda fire in a garage as a result of a short circuit in the electrical system. Since then, I disconnect always the battery.
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One of the forum members brought this thread to my attention so I am posting here rather than starting another thread. I am one of the owners here at Element Fire and am also a long time Pagoda Group member and lurker. We are vintage car guys here and the W113 is among my personal favourites; one of these days I expect to get off the sidelines and take the plunge into ownership.
I am happy to answer any questions about the extinguisher and would like to let the group know that I have created a discount code that can be used when ordering on our online store. When prompted, enter the code bracq10 for a 10% discount. I would ask that the code be kept for use amongst the forum members and not be posted elsewhere. If any members have ordered from us in the last 30 days, please let me know and I will apply the discount retroactively.
A couple of things that might be of interest. First, the Element and the Fire Safety Stick being sold in the UK/Ireland are the same product simply being sold under different trade names in their respective markets.
Second, and most significant, Mercedes-Benz tested our extinguisher, granted it a formal approval, and added it to their global parts program at the end of 2021. In 2022, vehicles destined for several global markets (TBA) will be equipped ex-works in Sindelfingen with safety kits containing our extinguisher. We are obviously very proud of this association and believe that it helps validate our technology.
I look forward to answering any questions and hope to be a more active member when I get closer to deciding on a car.
Best Regards,
Paul
www.elementfire.com
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Paul,
Looks like a great product. Ordered two. Thanks for the discount.
Paul
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Hi Paul,
I’m trying to buy one and ship it to Honolulu. It won’t allow me to. Do you know why?
Thank you?
Kevin
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Probably because of “ground shipping only” caveats. Too dangerous for air shipping.
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Heaven forbid it should go off in an airplane hold and maybe extinguish a fire. My understanding is that fire extinguishers extinguish fires, not start them. Did I miss something? Does that imply that they should not be used to extinguish a fire in an enclosed area? Admittedly, I don't really know how they work. Logically, I would think that if it's not safe for an airplane, I would not like for it to be stored in my Mercedes inside my house garage when I'm sleeping upstairs (sarcasm) Seriously, I suppose there some reason for them not to be shipped by air. Rosemeyer, do you know?
Tom Kizer
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Airlines probably class all extinguishers as dangerous goods, as they assume they are stored pressure containers
If dropped an extinguisher could explode, hence why it needs to be securely fitted in a bracket or clamp, so it doesn't roll around
Perfectly safe when correctly fitted, but you wouldn't want it rolling around or dropped in an airline cargo hold
From looking at the data sheet of the Element extinguisher, they are not stored pressure, but the airlines and carriers probably just apply a blanket exclusion and won't carry them, perhaps Element need to educate them
"Element is composed of stable, solid minerals; it does not contain gas and is not
pressurized. The aerosol-like jet is only produced when the charger is struck with its
base. The produced aerosol jet is free of thrust and is essentially an inert salt that emits
gas already present in the atmosphere"
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"Element is certified for international transport by surface (land or sea) only. Any method of shipping that involves air (including personal or checked baggage on commercial aircraft) is prohibited by national and international safety regulations. For this reason we only ship Element by surface transportation methods and do not offer express shipping options."
MSDS Data Sheet: https://firesafetystick.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/ESP-FSS-MSDS-EN-REV-5-February-1-2018.pdf
Primary ingredients: potassium nitrate, dicyandiamide (DCDA) and [unspecified] organic resin.
I wouldn't want this going off in a plane. Neither would I want any fire extinguisher of any type going off in a plane. Despite the "non-toxic" claims in the video, there are plenty of warnings on the MSDS sheet. As far as I can tell, something "ignites" and releases large amounts of nitrogen, from the DCDA and Potassium Nitrate; that's what extinguishes flames. Things that ignite in any manner are generally ill advised on air transport.
Sounds like a fabulous fire extinguisher...but not for transport on a plane.
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Regarding air transport, a normal extinguisher is also considered Hazardous Goods but for a different reason (different hazard class) than ours is.
As it happens, the Element can be carried aboard commercial and passenger aircraft but not without a considerable amount of paperwork beforehand and also not without a substantial surcharge for handling. Because neither of these things are practical for small volume retail or personal shipments we simply apply a blanket prohibition to this method of transport. Ground or sea are the only options.
Within our sales territory this poses problems for us in Hawaii and in Puerto Rico where we are unable to send customer orders cost-effectively. In both these places we are working to identify trade partners who can carry stock and we hope to have options available in the coming months.
Kind Regards,
Paul
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I fly cargo. Given the choice I’d fly the Element around all day rather than the hundred thousand lithium batteries we fill up with in China. We’ve already lost a 747 and DC-8 to lithium batteries. Two lives lost.
Dumbass regulations.
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If you do decide to carry a conventional ABC extinguisher make sure it has a metal head and a metal pin. I watched a very tall friend go for a ride in a buddies Corvette. When he got in he immediately pushed the seat all the way back which crushed the extinguisher behind the passenger seat and set it off. Luckily, the windows were down and all we ended up with was a mess and a funny memory.
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Thanks for the thread - will be buying this soon; Looks like a bargain...
https://www.webstaurantstore.com/buckeye-2-5-lb-halotron-fire-extinguisher-with-fixed-nozzle-and-dot-vehicle-bracket-rechargeable-untagged-ul-rating-2-b-c/47270251.html
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All the discussion about fires prompted me to purchase some Element fire sticks.
Thinking it should be readily accessible, I looked for some ideas - and our drivers seat have a small restraining bracket in the middle/lower/front. It was as simple as changing the existing screw to a longer one and connecting the provided element bracket. Simple and easy (picture is upside down, dont know how to change)
jb
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It’s probably one size fits all thinking. No logic in so many regulations these days. None whatsoever. Especially with all this COVID crap. We are drowning in bureaucracy in the western world.
Example… pilots cannot carry scissors in our luggage. Meanwhile we have a crash ax in the cockpit. Pure insanity.