Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zazozazo on October 10, 2021, 21:13:57
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Hello all
I would like some of your comments about the level of workmanship in these initial pictures of a restored 14TH May 1964 delivery 230 SL
Thank you
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Part 2
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She looks very decent, I have to say. I see just a couple of rubber parts missing on the weld edge above the firewall, nothing serious, and a couple of clamps to be replaced, nothing serious again.
I would still have a pair of professional eyes look at her (pictures are not good enough for careful inspection) to check for hidden rust, unclogged drains and paint thickness and engine condition.
I see even gaps between body parts, smooth finish. I am not sure if underside is body color or black - it should be the body color. Does not affect condition or functionality but body color it was from the factory.
Check the chassis number vs. Datacard and body number vs. Datacard and the digits stamped on bonnet, transmission support etc. Check the data on Paint Code Plate - if everything fits.
But she does look quite good here.
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She looks very decent, I have to say. I see just a couple of rubber parts missing on the weld edge above the firewall, nothing serious, and a couple of clamps to be replaced, nothing serious again.
I would still have a pair of professional eyes look at her (pictures are not good enough for careful inspection) to check for hidden rust, unclogged drains and paint thickness and engine condition.
I see even gaps between body parts, smooth finish. I am not sure if underside is body color or black - it should be the body color. Does not affect condition or functionality but body color it was from the factory.
Check the chassis number vs. Datacard and body number vs. Datacard and the digits stamped on bonnet, transmission support etc. Check the data on Paint Code Plate - if everything fits.
But she does look quite good here.
Body fully stripped and cleaned. New panels as required. Drains investigated and restored. All mechanicals overhauled and parts changed where necessary. Body matching, mechanicals too. Underside of body is all body colour except for wheel arch protection and fuel tank which are black. Upholstery needs some minor attention like door interior handles missing .
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Big question: how does it run? Leakdown test? Rebuilt engine? By whom? Who did the FI pump? Is the ignition up to snuff? Has it been converted to electronic of any kind?
What kind of tires are those, with the large WW? Are they WW tires, or "porta-wall" additions? What size are they?
No question it's a pretty car. As Pawel has pointed out there are some minor things he found, no doubt upon a thorough close up you'll find more.
The bigger question is runnability and drivability, if you are looking at this to potentially buy. Unless you see this in person, you'll never know.
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Pondering from description and price of € 140K , if it's worth the visit or not
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It is, but be careful not to fall in love at the first sight. i would have it inspected by an expert. We are providing some nego points :). The car looks good. If it is well restored, it is interesting in my opinion.
BTW: wheel wells should be body color too.
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This is what I am looking for here ;-)
I had a 230 SL until 3 years ago which was an American version, and I always wished for the Euro version with the fishbowl light , which in my opinion are absolutely beautiful.
From the picture this car is gorgeous and if well restored , I would treasure.
But I am waiting for all the details which I have asked for before I get the flight ticket to inspect and have an expert inspect.
If there are any experts in the region of Padova, Italy here, I would love to get to know of.
Thank you :-)
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Wheel wells are too
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Thank you :-)
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Would most definitely agree that an inspection would be worthwhile.
It is most definitely a pretty car, great color also.
It astonishes me to see all the "cheese slicer" clamps on the engine. The original type are easily available and well documented. It shouts to missing of details. The "slicer" clamps cause the rubber on the hose to extrude through the openings.
No battery hold down.
Missing the three small rubber bumper guards that go on the firewall flange.
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Thank you
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A very small thing, but one that makes me crazy in an obviously carefully restored car, is the radio knobs from 280 rather than 230. (Of course, this car would have originally had the smaller radio opening and radio, as well).
-David
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Thank you :-)
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No battery hold down.
If this is spotted, I would fix it before any rides in this car. They are available form MB and from many other places.
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It is a very pretty car. Nobody gets everything right in a restoration. Nobody. Jonny B is very modest so you may miss the impact of his statement. He is VERY knowledgeable when it comes to these cars and his opinion should bring you comfort.
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Thank you Sveghel :-)
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I see those "metal blades" that i have not on my 280 ..... Are they here to stop the bonnet ?
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Think they are spring clips. I saw some on John Dreu’s car in Seefeld.
Next to part 30 on this image from SLS - https://www.sls-hh-shop.de/main/en/mercedes-230-280sl-w113-/88-a-bonnet-grille-front-end-components?page=2
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I see those "metal blades" that i have not on my 280 ..... Are they here to stop the bonnet ?
“BST”, or brass springy thing. It’s been discussed before and as I recall it’s part of a radio interference scheme.
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The only small item I can see that was missed is that they appear to have removed the factory runs on the underside of the hood.
Extra work by someone thinking they were doing the right thing.
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1. It astonishes me to see all the "cheese slicer" clamps on the engine. The original type are easily available and well documented. It shouts to missing of details.
2. No battery hold down.
3. Missing the three small rubber bumper guards that go on the firewall flange.
1. One of the folks that worked on my car, called these clamps "Fat A** American Clamps". This probably points to a restoration done in USA? As you point out, the original type are easily available. In fact, when my car was in for transmission work 20 years ago, the shop changed all the "Fat A**" clamps to the proper ones. He had a display of them on his counter!
2. Battery hold downs are a common missing item, and often you see jerry-rigged substitutes. I recall some discussion here years ago on how costly the original hold down is, so people are SHOCKED at the cost and refuse to buy one. The other reason is that they are very specific in size, and I've seen a number of batteries installed where the original won't fit.
3. Cheap and easy fix...interesting to note that mine was missing these for YEARS and this was never pointed out to me in a Concours, but at a PUB. They tend to move around that lip, sometimes sticking to the underside of the hood/bonnet, and thus can easily get lost...
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There's no such thing as a perfect restoration; someone will always disagree with some detail or other.
What I will say is that at €140000 it doesn't look expensive. Photos of the restoration work will help you (or your appointed expert) to establish whether this car has been done well or not. Looks can be very deceiving.
I have a newly restored 230SL for sale on my website at significantly more but I'm sure people can find reasons to criticise even that car if they look hard enough!
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Thank you Sir, that is most honest of you
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Sorry, straying off topic, but can't get over these prices. Are Euro asking and selling prices that much higher than the U.S. prices?
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Yes they are and if you think they a high, wait till you see the Australian prices
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-sports-auto/OAG-AD-19858673/?Cr=3 (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-sports-auto/OAG-AD-19858673/?Cr=3)
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-sports-auto/OAG-AD-20172348/?Cr=4 (https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-sports-auto/OAG-AD-20172348/?Cr=4)
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You are not off topic but this is what happens :
50k to 65K in finding a good example and quotes of 60K to a 100K for a full nut and bolt restoration
All this hoping that the car will live for another 50 years having used better preservation materials than those used 60 years ago.
And of course profit for doing the job in the mix.
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You are talking a lot more than $60 to $100k for a good but and bolt restoration. I will have about $40k+ in mine amd I did 95% of the work and no body panels other than a $200 trunk floor.
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but and bolt restoration.
Yes indeed, one must work one's butt off to restore one of these cars!
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I could not agree more with you Colin. Back in the day, (can't believe I just said that), I restored quite a few C1, C2 Corvettes, 60's Mustangs and 60's Shelbys. Could not have been easier. Tried a 280SL.......one and done. These cars are so well built that they are a huge challenge to restore correctly. Compound that with today's astronomical parts prices, availability, and sky high man hours, and I can see how restored prices are where they are.
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It never occurred to me that the jack would be in the “later” position (exhaust side) despite the spare wheel being vertically mounted the other side. I’d not thought about it much but would have assumed the jack would be outboard of the vertical wheel.
Seems a “clumsy” solution from Stuttgart…
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Car was completely and chemically stripped of all paint.
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Hi, James,
According to this photo I happened to remember from a recent topic, it looks like the jack was to the left of the upright spare.
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=33042.msg240919#msg240919 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=33042.msg240919#msg240919)
-David
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Thank you Dave
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Hi, James,
According to this photo I happened to remember from a recent topic, it looks like the jack was to the left of the upright spare.
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=33042.msg240919#msg240919 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=33042.msg240919#msg240919)
-David
Thanks. That makes more sense.