Pagoda SL Group

W113 Pagoda SL Group => Research & Development => Topic started by: russelljones48 on September 02, 2021, 18:15:04

Title: struggling with what oil to use??
Post by: russelljones48 on September 02, 2021, 18:15:04
So, thanks again to Pedro I have what I think is a pretty good source of information on what oil is "best" and what to use for my Pagoda.  I did a lot of research and reading and couldn't come to any definitive conclusions until now..  Here's the blog:

https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/

and here's his specific response to my question about old cars/engines - specifically ours..

540 RAT, I want to thank you for your science based blog and all the testing you have done to come to the conclusions you’ve come to.. I’ve been trying to find a reliable source on all of the new engine oils and confusing claims and I believe you have filled that need. All 5 of my vehicles will get changed to the new QS 5w/30. My one possible concern is our 1967 230SL Mercedes. It has either 90,000 miles or 190,000 miles on the original engine and I’d like to double check that you feel that the QS 5w/30 synthetic is the best choice. A compression test yielded PSI from 120 to 130 on all 6 cylinders and it puffs a little blue smoke at cold start which I assume is probably worn valve seals – they will be replaced shortly. Other than that it runs well and stays cool. Thanks – in advance for your response.

=================

Hi Russell,

Welcome to my Blog.
For an old high mileage vehicle like that, you would be better served by using 5W30 Quaker State “High Mileage” Full Synthetic, API SP, in that one. The seal swell/seal conditioner additives in High Mileage motor oil, is intended to reduce oil leakage/oil consumption. So, it may help out with those issues.
I used to recommend “conventional” non-synthetic oil in old high mileage engines. Because conventional oil helps to reduce oil consumption in high mileage engines, better than synthetic oil does.

However, conventional oils are being phased out. And those still available, do not perform as well as today’s better synthetic oils. So, using a high performing High Mileage synthetic motor oil, is the best compromise.
If the suggested motor oil above doesn’t work out well enough for your needs, then the next step would be to move up to a thicker motor oil such as XW40.
Just so you know, compression testing is notoriously inaccurate. It was generally replaced decades ago by the much more accurate “Leak Down Test”. See my Tech Article #5, for the details on that.
I suspect that you likely have worn rings and cylinders that are major contributors to your blue smoke. That is a common condition with old worn engines.

Take care,

540 RAT
Title: Re: struggling with what oil to use??
Post by: TJMart on October 09, 2021, 16:58:12
Russell,

It was great to meet you in Mooresville. I just happened to run across your post and wanted to ask you if you have put in the QS 5W30 "High Mileage" or the "Full Synthetic" QS. If so have you been happy with it so far? Did you experience more leaks etc. I read some of his blog but way to much info for me. He does sound like he knows his oil though based on all his tests so I thought I would ask you.

Thanks!

Tony
Title: Re: struggling with what oil to use??
Post by: russelljones48 on October 11, 2021, 12:03:05
Yes, I have changed the oil/filter and switched to his QS "high mileage" recommendation.  I have fewer than 200 miles since the changeover and have not noticed any substantial changes either good or bad.  I have also replaced several prior leak sources like the rocker/cam cover and front crank seal.  I have some blue smoke at startup and that hasn't changed - it's probably due to valve seals which will also get replaced sometime soon.  Oil pressure stayed the same as well..   

Title: Re: struggling with what oil to use??
Post by: zoegrlh on May 29, 2022, 22:56:52
Oil has always be a topic of conversation concerning our Pagodas. I would suggest Shell X-100 Classic Car Motor Oil 20W50 with zinc at about $50/160FL (5 qt) and comes in a tin can, like the good old days. It is a absolute necessity when it comes to older model cars (pre 1989 and HP engines, especially those with flat-tapper camshafts. If you use a more modern motor oil use ZDDPPlus (zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate ) additive.   Reason is that the EPA Clean Air Act of 1970, mandated zinc and phosphate  be removed from motor oils, and so gradually zinc and phosphate was removed from oils and engines manufacturers developed engines to run cleaner, and with the new oils. This additive will help wear on you Pagoda engine.
Title: Re: struggling with what oil to use??
Post by: MartinK on May 30, 2022, 11:12:10
 Hei. The Zinc-Complex is not the only Parameter to chose the oil. Do not use an oil for "low ash" purpose. I wrote it several times not to look only at the zinc phosphorus! While reducing the additive they improved the common oil quality and there was no further need to do so much additive. The cams of the Pagoda are lubricated with dropped oil and an oil with a too high viscosity does not lubricate the cam sufficient when it is cold. Keep that in mind. Take care. Martin. Mobil1 0W40 without any issues, checked with permanent oil analysis.
Title: Re: struggling with what oil to use??
Post by: Rolf-Dieter on May 30, 2022, 17:16:46
A friend of mine Pagoda and Ferrari driver we use DRIVEN Raicing Oil HR1 Conventtional 15W 50 Hot Rod Motor Oil. Designed specially for hot rods and classic cars.

High zink protection.
ZDDP Anti-Water Additives.
Military Storage Protection.
Start-Up Protection Additives.
Excelent Seal Compatiboliy.

Dieter

Title: Re: struggling with what oil to use??
Post by: MartinK on May 30, 2022, 18:00:37
May I fill that stuff into the engine of my all terrain AWD truck ? ;D
Title: Re: struggling with what oil to use??
Post by: MikeSimon on May 30, 2022, 20:26:47
 :P :P
Title: Re: struggling with what oil to use??
Post by: Rolf-Dieter on May 30, 2022, 23:00:34
Martin,

Are you talking about the oil I use? ;)

Mike what on earth are you grining about  :o

Dieter