Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Benz Dr. on July 30, 2021, 17:52:53
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So, here's my situation. I've gone from two full-time mechanics to one part-time guy over the past few months. I'm no longer able to do very much in the shop due to declining health so I'm now considering closing the doors once we have everything cleared out. I have lots of work but I can't find enough help to it done in a timely fashion.
What would you do if you were in my place?
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Sorry to hear of these woes, Dan.
If the business were located in some commercial location instead of your own barns and property, there may be an opportunity to sell it. That's a bit more difficult in the situation you are in.
There are some shops, etc. in the Toronto area that do work on collectible cars, so maybe there's a way to sell off the inventory all at once. Maybe you can hire some additional help (you had full timers?) to help clear out the cars in process.
If you can't work, you can't work. Time to retire. Take your CPP, or Old Age Security Benefit or whatever it's called up there.
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Thanks, Mike.
All of that surgery I had 15 years ago has finally caught up with me. I'm capable of light work and doing all of the go-fur stuff but heavy stuff not so much. I can still run all of my farm equipment because that's mostly driving but I can't actually work on it anymore. I sold off some extra farmland to lessen the workload so all of that is OK.
I'm now 66 years old and at the top of my game. Lots of people out there in my shoes with working operations and no one to take over. I had two full-time guys last year and now I have one part time.
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Become a consultant, appraiser, expert.
Your experience is your most valuable asset.
Paul
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Sorry I dare to write here - so little knowledge of local conditions and about how a workshop works, but... just to get to the root cause perhaps...
So at 66 you may have some issue doing the work by your hands. But you can do it with your brains through other people's hands, your employees hands. That is clear.
You say you had to reduce form two men full time to one part time while having a lot of work to do waiting. Why did you have to reduce? Nobody there willing to work? Lack of skilled workforce? Not enough pay?
Sorry if the questions are stupid...
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I think it depends how you feel about continuing the shop versus retiring. 65 is the retirement age here (Australia) and relatively few people continue to work full time after that. You already have the farm so you’d still have plenty to do. So unless you need the income, it might be a good time to close.
On the other hand if you’re still enjoying the workshop then you could try finding another employee - may not be so easy but there are probably a few keen and capable youngsters around.
If you still have plenty of work coming in, then those clients will have to go somewhere if you close, so perhaps you could be a consultant/trainer for those other businesses. You could also consider providing paid live troubleshooting/training online, there would be some market for that.
Good luck whatever happens.
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To DaveB's point, maybe you could do a version of Kent Bergsma's or Pierre Hedary's YouTube videos (with explicit "how-to" DIY descriptions), which would immortalize vintage Mercedes-Benz maintenance processes? Heck, Scotty Kilmer's YouTube videos have gotten over 1 billion views, which have made him more than $7.5M! ;) 8)
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I had a similar problem when i wanted to sell my company some years ago. How do i transition and what is saleable over and above the physical assets.
Your business not only has hard assets it also has the goodwill and customers.. The only way i would see you being able to sell that is as a working operation. Its immediate location is not what is being sold so someone could potentially take the business and set up in another workshop.
To do this you need to offer some of the business to one of the full or part time employees as an incentive for future takeover and that is where you will get some return, the new owner will be become known to the customers and a transition time is negotiated.
It took me over three years to transition in my case but was better than just walking away and selling the assets.
Garry
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Hi Dan,
I’ve never had the pleasure of meeting you. I can tell you, however, that I read just about everything you write here. Your knowledge is vast and along with a handful of other contributors no body knows the intricacies of w113 like you. I am in aw and truly value your knowledge and opinions.
I retired at age 60. It was right for me. This is a very personal decision and I don’t think it’s ever easy. What I know is that your knowledge should not be wasted. You simply have way too much to share. I agree that the Kent Bergsma/Pierre Hedary YouTube formats would work well for you. I know I’d be a subscriber in a heartbeat.
The mechanic who repairs my car took over the business from his father in law. His son just graduated from high school and I rather doubt he’ll be continuing the workshop after his dad decides to quit. It’s a recurring issues for many businesses.
In the end, this is a decision no one can make for you. Whatever you decide I hope you’ll find a way to continue to teach and share your expertise with others.
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I was talking to a guy at a car show a few years back and as he introduced himself as a past owner of a restoration business somewhere "out in the valley".. When he knew he couldn't continue he put feelers out early asking clients who were the best mechanics at his competitors and then he quietly went and contacted a couple of the head guys at his major competitors and let them know that his business and client and supplier list would be up for sale and that he would offer training and support and a payment plan if interested. He ended up selling his business and retained the real estate and got paid over 5 -6 yrs for the business and now earns income on his rental of the shop and gets a deal on work he needs on his cars.
He said he still rents an office in the shop (takes it off the rent for the shop) and now its a play thing but still offers advice but doesn't get his hands dirty unless he wants to.
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Based on all the good advice here, I would look for someone to take over the business, in another location not too far away, where you would coach them for some years, transferring your knowledge. Could be on a payment plan over say 10 years, where the new proprietor can pay you for the inventory, knowledge, goodwill and customer list from the revenue of the business. Once they are all set, knowledge/skills-wise (3-5 years?) you could continue as a coach for as long, and as many hours a week, as you both agree. Do put all this in proper legal writing.
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So, here's my situation. I've gone from two full-time mechanics to one part-time guy over the past few months. I'm no longer able to do very much in the shop due to declining health so I'm now considering closing the doors once we have everything cleared out. I have lots of work but I can't find enough help to it done in a timely fashion.
What would you do if you were in my place?
Dan, that's a tough one. I wish that I had known of you when I was looking to restore my W111. I ended up using Ray (RIP) at Memory Lane, around the corner from you (or at least in your neck of the woods), and in hindsight had a very mixed experience. Ray's main employee took over the business when Ray passed away and seems to have made a go of it, so perhaps he might be someone to have a chat with. I can give you details per PM.
At any rate, the value of your business, apart from the tools, installations and parts inventory, is what's in your head and you need to find a way to monetize that. As others have said, finding a young person who has the talent and passion to step into your shoes and going from there is a possibility. The Youtube route is also a possibility, but speaking as an award-winning TV producer with credits on 1000s of hours of lifestyle programming - unless the camera likes you, you have a character, you have a story to tell and you know how to spin a yarn, you will not be successful. The days where anything gets 100,000+ views are long gone.
Happy to have a phone chat if you want to brainstorm.
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Hi Dan,
congrats on your decision to your retire! Not easy, and I know it won't happen overnight.
I say, move to London and help some Fanshawe College automotive grads set up a Mercedes specialty shop :-)
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Hi Dan,
First I like to offer my sincere congratulation to you for thinking about retirement and formulating a plan to do so. It is a hard decision I know from personal experience. I retired early at 55 and joined my former partner for the next 20 years as well as formed my own company to serve Customers with rotating equipment that initiated a preventative program for pumps, compressors, steam and gas turbines as well as generators 50 to 150 MW. I have done my last project at age 75 now almost 10 years back.
You asked the question “What would you do if you were in my place?”
Your friends in this thread have offered you some solid advise. I do agree with many of the points that gave been tabled above. So here is what I would do if I was in your shoes.
I would asked myself what is my second love (after my wife), it is pretty obvious it is the beloved Benz (you have worked on for so many years) and the knowledge that you gained over the years past. The Customers you meet over the years and performed satisfying service for. The tools you accumulated over the years. And you have this shop here to do all this work in. Your hause is right next door so what would be the best solution.
To me after I woud place myself in your shoes for this question, there are three possible options.
First, Continue the business on a consulting basis. By this I mean do find and hire 2 qualified mechanics that you easily can train for you have the knowledge and they have the strength and hands to do the work. This option would truly mean you do spend 8 hours Monday to Friday to coach those mechanics until such time that they are truly familiar with the cars you do service. For your goal must be to continue this repeat business for years to come. I would also hire a young fellow that would look after the farm needs.
Second, The second option would be to hire like above 2 qualified mechanics one of them would be interested to eventually purchase the business (The value of your business being repeat Customers, Tools and the shop). Your involvement would be the same as the first option until such time you you can step away. You can be still near by in your house for consultation at a hourly rate.
Third and last, I would sell everything right out and enjoy my retirement.
After a good evaluation Dan I would decide on one of the above options.
Good luck,
Dieter
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Second, The second option would be to hire like above 2 qualified mechanics one of them would be interested to eventually purchase the business (The value of your business being repeat Customers, Tools and the shop). Your involvement would be the same as the first option until such time you you can step away. You can be still near by in your house for consultation at a hourly rate.
Good luck,
Dieter
This is what I also had in mind thinking there may be an issue motivating young talent to work for you. Perhaps you could also raise prices. Then offer them a stake or the business.
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I'd like to thank everyone for their positive comments.
I had two full-time workers last year. One, who is now 71, retired because he wanted to but still comes now and then if I need him to do something that I don't know about - hydraulics and pneumatics come to mind. The other guy ( 61 years old ) is remodeling his house this year and only works three days a week. He also helps me doing fieldwork as he grew up on a farm.
I sold off some land I have and kept the homestead property which is 200 acres and over 100 years in family ownership. This is a small farm by today's standards with many operations in my area being 1,000 acres or more. I've split my crops into soybeans, winter wheat, and corn, which breaks up the workload. I have some of that fieldwork custom done but I still have a full complement of machinery ready to go at any time. Sitting in a tractor or combine doesn't bother me that much - lifting or heavy wrenching does - it's hard when you hurt all day long.
I've tried young guys in the shop before and most of them were a complete waste of time. Not settled down enough and far too many conflicting personal issues with partying, girls, and generally dumb stuff that young people do. It's a lot more than that but none of them were ever cut out to be mechanics. Restoration is a lot different than working in a regular garage - anyone who works on their own cars will know what I mean.
I've thought about doing videos. Some people can make that work but I'd have to redirect my focus which may or may not be a good idea right now. Regardless of all these things, I do want to be in a mostly management position. I find the work, and my guys do it under my direction. I'm putting out feelers right now.
I've also taken to writing and have completed my first novel over the past year called The Devil's Half Acre. I'm ready to send it off for editing and I think the story will do well. Covid gave me the time to sit and write 33 chapters with about 470 pages.
I'll keep the shop open as long as I can find good help. My place has always been about quality work and I won't compromise that. Anyone who has been here will know that I have a small mountain of vintage parts on hand. I guess I might need to get my online stuff working better.
I agree that knowledge should be passed on which is why I've spent so much time here. Hopefully, that's helped a few of you. :)
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Dan, that's a tough one. I wish that I had known of you when I was looking to restore my W111. I ended up using Ray (RIP) at Memory Lane, around the corner from you (or at least in your neck of the woods), and in hindsight had a very mixed experience. Ray's main employee took over the business when Ray passed away and seems to have made a go of it, so perhaps he might be someone to have a chat with. I can give you details per PM.
At any rate, the value of your business, apart from the tools, installations and parts inventory, is what's in your head and you need to find a way to monetize that. As others have said, finding a young person who has the talent and passion to step into your shoes and going from there is a possibility. The Youtube route is also a possibility, but speaking as an award-winning TV producer with credits on 1000s of hours of lifestyle programming - unless the camera likes you, you have a character, you have a story to tell and you know how to spin a yarn, you will not be successful. The days where anything gets 100,000+ views are long gone.
Happy to have a phone chat if you want to brainstorm.
I knew Ray from when he worked at RM but he was not really even an aquaintance. The input shaft for your transmission came from my parts barn. PM if you like.
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Somewhere out there is someone who wants to be you. You just have to find them. You can probably get them most of the way there in 2 or 3 years and he’ll figure out the rest the same way we did.
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What I really need is a full-time mechanic. Anyone in my general area should contact me.
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I'd like to thank everyone for their positive comments.
I've tried young guys in the shop before and most of them were a complete waste of time.
I've also taken to writing and have completed my first novel over the past year called The Devil's Half Acre. I'm ready to send it off for editing and I think the story will do well. Covid gave me the time to sit and write 33 chapters with about 470 pages.
I agree that knowledge should be passed on which is why I've spent so much time here. Hopefully, that's helped a few of you. :)
Those of you who know Dan Caron personally know far more of his struggles in many ways, more so than he lets on here in these brief comments for the rest of us.
He lives in a rural farming community, far from any "big city", the kind of place (both here and in his part of Canada) where the young abandon unless they have a bent to take up farming, in their father's or grandfather's footsteps. The nearest city is Sarnia, Ontario, a city of 71,000 that is only slightly larger than the small city I lived in for 30 years. However in my case, my city was surrounded by other cities and towns and we were all part of the greater Detroit area. In Sarnia, the two main industries are petrochemical and agriculture. To get close to the automotive world, you'd have to go to Windsor, across the river from Detroit. But, Windsor is a distant 131km drive around Lake St. Clair, too far for a commute. Thus it is extremely difficult to attract anyone to work in this area--and he has tried.
Trying to get young people interested in automotive mechanics and restoration is challenging anywhere. It's easier in a more populated, more economically diverse area, but still challenging. It's also easier when the firm is somewhat larger; when Dan says the young ones have not worked out, what's he's also saying is that a lot of the knowledge he imparted to them with the hopes of a better long term employee--call it training--hasn't worked out. Dan's been privately complaining about this for years.
If it were easy, or even possible, it is likely he would have found someone or two, a while ago.
All that aside, am I the only person who noted your "first" novel has been mostly completed? Congratulations! I do have some experience with books, so if you want contact me by PM or offline (you know where to find me) and hopefully I can give you some pointers.
I don't know about the REST of you, but I for one will be the first on line to buy a copy.
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I used to be a trainer for BMW. We used to always wonder why the young ones seemed to be so much less "with it" than we felt we were when we were young. What we decided was that when we were kids there was always and uncle pulling and engine somewhere but sadly cars have become so complex that very few people are even remotely qualified to work on their own cars. SO many mechanics today start out coming out of high school with zero experience.
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Dan. While I don’t imagine I’ll be sending my car to Pt. Lambton again from Spokane, it still feels like a real loss to think about you closing up shop. I wish you well in whatever direction you decide to take. Don
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I plan to keep the doors open but I need more help. I'm looking right now.
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Having been to your place Dan, and having suffered the same difficulties in finding the right employees but from a population pool of 18000000, I sympathise.
I think you should consider just becoming a parts seller. You have a large inventory which will be worthless if it had to be sold in bulk in a forced sale, so take it easy and sell a few parts to slowly reduce your inventory and lessen your work load at the same time.
Wishing you all the best in whatever decision you take.
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It is not just in your business that you've got difficulty with employees. I have the same in my traditional electronics and software development company. Young graduates all want to become team leaders, managers, consultants etc, without putting in the 10 years of hard slog to build up the experience they need to be capable of independent work.
I notice that newly graduated university engineers haven't been taught proper engineering discipline, only think through part of the problem, not the whole solution. They do not know how to design for manufacture and production. They don't build software in a resilient manner. They don't sit down and think, and design. They grab a keyboard and it all becomes a sequence of prototypes. In fact the whole SCRUM world came into existence because they can't design and plan the whole thing ahead of time, but make things up as they go along (and someone needed to manage that).
My view: find someone with ability, some formal education, and a willingness to really learn a skill. Then guide and train them. Make sure there are no "management obstacles", i.e. Dilberts around, because it will frustrate them no end. But it is hard, I experience this all the time.
And I second Cees's recommendation: offer them the reward of ownership in the future, with a way for them to "earn into" the business. But do put it in writing with a partnership contract, and the so called "tag-along, drag-along, right of first refusal" clauses in case some company comes up in the mean-time which is prepared to buy the whole business.
Peter
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Those young kids are out there. I know of a 20 something that is into cars and mechanics. He became friendly with a machine shop owner, worked for free for a while getting to understand what it took. He now works there full time and is hoping to buy the business when the owner calls it quits.
There are colleges and schools like McPherson College in Kansas who offer degrees in auto restoration. Contact them for a lead. There is even a prison in Arizona that trains restorers too.
I'd go to some car shows looking for a young person showing a car who has the itch too. Most mechanics I know got into the business by working on their own cars but get burnt out doing oil changes all day. Working on classics would be a step up.
Best of luck.
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I wished I lived closer to you Dan, I'd go over to your place and help you out just for the fun of it!
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I wished I lived closer to you Dan, I'd go over to your place and help you out just for the fun of it!
As an FYI Joe the border opened today!! 😉
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Dr. Benz - like many others in this Group, I have never met you, but ALWAYS read your posts. Have even often thought about trying to bring my car to you. I agree with many responders here - your knowledge is vast and would be a shame to lose. Over the past year many of us have had to work from home/remotely and correspond/collaborate via zoom, etc. Many have suggested you could be an expert consultant - it would be amazing if you could do consulting via the web. People could schedule a video call with you for whatever time - half-hour, hour, whatever - and you could help them with their car problems - and could be paid through PayPal or any other process. Speaking for myself, I'd love the opportunity to get some face time with you about my car. Just a thought. Whatever you decide, I wish you all the best!
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Dr Benz
Your knowledge is priceless. I would probably focus on that and possible doing a Channel. No heavy lifting.
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It is not just in your business that you've got difficulty with employees. I have the same in my traditional electronics and software development company. Young graduates all want to become team leaders, managers, consultants etc, without putting in the 10 years of hard slog to build up the experience they need to be capable of independent work.
I notice that newly graduated university engineers haven't been taught proper engineering discipline, only think through part of the problem, not the whole solution. They do not know how to design for manufacture and production. They don't build software in a resilient manner. They don't sit down and think, and design. They grab a keyboard and it all becomes a sequence of prototypes. In fact the whole SCRUM world came into existence because they can't design and plan the whole thing ahead of time, but make things up as they go along (and someone needed to manage that).
My view: find someone with ability, some formal education, and a willingness to really learn a skill. Then guide and train them. Make sure there are no "management obstacles", i.e. Dilberts around, because it will frustrate them no end. But it is hard, I experience this all the time.
And I second Cees's recommendation: offer them the reward of ownership in the future, with a way for them to "earn into" the business. But do put it in writing with a partnership contract, and the so called "tag-along, drag-along, right of first refusal" clauses in case some company comes up in the mean-time which is prepared to buy the whole business.
Peter
Peter
You’ve just described my 15yo. He loves making things, out of anything he can get hold of. He’s graduated from cardboard and duct tape to glue gun and “stuff”. Loves the subject at school too. But… can we get him to design/sketch on paper? Not a chance. He builds, adapts, discards and builds again. Each time it improves but I can’t help but think that working it through on paper first would help. Messy though he is, at least he’s not playing Assassin’s Creed all the time.
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That's an intriguing idea. With the trend toward telemedecine, where doctors diagnose over the phone, it would make sense that a car mechanic could do something similar. With a camera/microphone on the 'patient' end, you could even guide some repairs.
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I think that model of 'remote diagnosing and helping' already exists. At least, when I google some issue I am having with a more modern Volvo or Ford, I oftentimes end up on forums where quickly a pop-up 'ASE Certified Mechanic with 30 Years of Experience' presents himself (it's always a him) asks how he can be of assistance, in a chat manner. I do my taxes the same way, with always a CPA at the ready to do a video call. Could easily work for our cars. I can see myself taking Dan 'into the garage, show him what I am facing, listen to the engine' etc and talk through what's next with Dan. Thanks to fast mobile connections and wifi.
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I guess I need to improve my computer skills a bit. I have high-speed internet here but it's not as good as I might need.
I've considered many of the ideas presented here and some of them I'm already doing but on a smaller scale.
Thanks, everyone for your suggestions. Right now I need more help while I work on a restructuring plan. One way or the other, I'll figure it out.
I had a guest for a couple of days and not only did he help in the shop he also helped me to deliver a car today. Thanks, Mark.
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Hi Dan,
Another idea for you would be to have someone help you to set up a good web site of the Benz Barn. It can list items like,
A) Services you provide
B) parts you have for sale
C) photos or short videos of work, maintenance and adjustments
D) A on line video consultation you can offer for a fee of course as Chees recommended
E) you can also include a section on your web site of jobs completed and/or ongoing
F) and a section when you are looking for “Help” describing the type of help you need 1) Hands on and 2) sorting out parts etc after removing them from old cars etc.
Etc. Etc. I’m.sure you can think of more items to list.
You have many cars (in the barn away from the shop) there are valuable parts that can be sold for cool cash. If I was you I would hire a auto mechanic to remove, clean and inventory parts From the various cars you have there that you direct him to remove. This then becomes part of the parts database. If your web site is properly set up and someone is looking for a part (you have many different Benz models in the aforementioned barn) your web site and parts list would then show up no charge to you only what the original web site abd parts database set up has cost you as well as the cost to hire the mechanic. Right now those parts are not much of your company assets since they are part of the cars in the barn. However, once cleaned, inspected and part of your inventory they will become valuable assets should you ever sell the company. Have a walk thru that barn and make a list of possible parts to remove and give each a value (after you make some research on the Internet). You be amazed the amount of cash you have in that barn.
Dieter
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I live in the NYC area and would be glad to offer assistance to forum members when needed.
Peter Paris
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Peter - have you signed up for the Emergency Contact List?
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Main/EmergencyContactList (https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Main/EmergencyContactList)