Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Question and comments on Originality => Topic started by: Andi_Heritage on April 20, 2021, 19:46:27
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Hello pagoda enthusiasts
My name is Andy. I am a proud owner of a 1968 280SL Pagoda.
I am living in southern Germany, close to Stuttgart.
My car was delivered as a california Version in dark brown exterior to the US - somewhere to the West Hollywood/LA area.
I bought my car in Germany with a silver painting, red leather interior and fully functional convertible top.
The history of the car is very good since it is back in Europe in 2011.
There does not exist any history for the time the car was in the US.
A guy of Mercedes Benz gave me the hint to post a before and after picture in this forum to get any information.
So my question would be - especially to the US members here - if someone of you has any information about a brown pagoda which was modified in this way?
It is not my intention to blame anybody, I am just interested in the history.
Thank you in advance for your support.
I am happy about any information you can give me.
You are my last chance...
Kind regards
Andy
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Wow! It is hard to believe that this is the same car. All the changes that were done should have cost as much as buying another Pagoda.
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The prior, brown iteration of that car is for sale? Old listing, perhaps?
https://www.classic-racecars-sales-events.com/verkaufte-fahrzeuge-und-referenzen/280-sl-pagode-braun/ (https://www.classic-racecars-sales-events.com/verkaufte-fahrzeuge-und-referenzen/280-sl-pagode-braun/)
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Nice sleuthing Geoff - though the listing you linked to is classified under 'sold cars' so likely this is more of the 'before' history.
You may get lucky and someone recognizes their old car, or their friend's or neighbour's old car etc. Being a California Coupe certainly makes it more memorable.
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Dear appreciated members.
Just for clarification: the brown pagoda is just a picture how my car looked like according to the data card.
The silver color is how the car looks like now - and yes, it is really astonishing that this car was changed this way.
The only possibility this could be worth doing is that the car was a complete wreck and should get pimped for export...
Kind regards
Andy
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You seem to be saying the repaint/mods were done in the US. I would think it more likely the brown car was imported to Germany and redone there. In that case, you'd be more likely to find information by tracing back to 2011 in Germany.
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Yes of course. That is also possible.
I already tried to get more imformation of the first known dealer here in Europe (Du Parc in the Netherlands). Unfortunately they say they do not have any records about the car as according to their law they only have to keep them 7 years. So that is way I tried it of the other direction...
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Andi, I wouldn't automatically assume your car was a wreck. The modifications just made a cool car even better.
I met a guy who did the same modification to his car because he wanted a soft top incase he ran into rain. His car had sentimental meaning so he had to keep it. For some body work guys this would just be a fun project / challenge and easier to start with a good straight car.
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Andy, it is a long shot but have you checked the car registry here to see if a previous owner might have had it registered here?
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Andi,
I don't know if you want to "go down this road" as it may be slippery but have you fully confirmed that the data card you have is really for the car you have?
Yes - of course one can convert a California to a softtop - not easy but it has been done.
However:
Have you confirmed that the VIN stamped under the throttle body matches the Data Card?
Have you confirmed that the body number matches the Hood stamp and the hard-top Stamp?
A USA car of 1968 will most likely have USA lights and sider marker lights - have you checked if these holes were welded for side marker and headlights changed?
What about interior - USA would car would have soft-door pockets - Euro cars would have hard pockets -- again this can be changed but it's more and more work.
How about your dash gauges? is temp in F or C?
How about Oil pressure is it in PSI or BAR
Wiper arms - matte finish of polished chrome?
Steering Wheel horn Ring - matte finish or Chrome?
Many of the above are often not changed from USA to Euro when making conversions -- of course someone could do a full on conversion.
My point is - is there a chance your silver car was always a soft-top car?
Digging history can be interesting.
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A quick way to see is to look at the paint plate under the hood. It should have 423H 423H 7 on the paint line if it was Tobacco Brown and a California Coupe.
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Thanks for all your answers and good questions:
@Ralph: just had a quick check on the registry - unfortunately/fortunately no hit
@kampala:
VIN stamp under throttle body matches data card
Hood stamp matches body number
Engine number matches data card
In the trunk you can feel that there have been sidelights
European head lights
Hard door pockets
Instruments in C, bar and km/h
Wiper arms matte
Wheel horn ring chrome
No chrome under the license plate at the back
In some places especially deep down in the motor compartment you can still see the brown body color.
Yes, digging can be exciting. Sometimes I am not sure if I really want to find out the truth - but on the other hand it cant be this bad if all the numbers are matching...
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Yes Brad. This is the case.
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Can you post some pictures of the soft top compartment. It must be done well if it looks like it never was a California Coupe.
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Of course Brad. I can post some pictures tomorrow. Just now the kids ask for a good night story... ;D
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Please find attached some pictures Brad:
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Number 2
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Outside view
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Chrome parts
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Are you aware of the springs?
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To my untrained eye the work looks well done.
jz
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It looks like a nice job done on the soft top compartment. The must have had a good donor car to get the parts from.
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@Gary: seems that the springs are at the right places
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But I just recognized - when I compare your picture to mine - that I do not have the big spring on the left. What is the function of this spring?
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It's like a garage door spring - it offsets the weight of the soft top for easier setup
See https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=19797.0 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=19797.0)
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Thanks! I am wondering if I have the eye on the body side to fix the spring. Perhaps this detail makes the difference between an original soft top car and my modified california version :)
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As you can see in Garry's reply (#1) in my link, the other side of the spring hooks over a "peg" not through a hole
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If you don't have a data card to see what the original options were, you can look at the "data plate' the metal plate riveted to the inner left fender.
The second line of numbers should have a single digit "7" as the last number if your car really was a California Coupe
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Hello Mike. I have a data card and there is a entry under „wenig gewünscht“ with the figure 288 - which, according to my information is a certain indicator for a california version.
And in addition to that there is the „7“ on the data plate.
So all together, I am quite sure, that my car was like the one on picture at the beginning of this thread before it was modified to its actual look.
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Ok. No pegs in my soft top compartment. Seems this has been forgotten in course of the modifications. :'(
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I’d love to see your car in person and have it alongside a car that came from the factory as a coupe/roadster. All I can say, at least based on the pictures, is that someone did a masterful conversion. As it stands today your car is beautiful and I don’t believe anyone with the exception of some of this clubs most sharp eyed and knowledgeable members would ever guess that a conversion had been done. Enjoy and be proud of a lovely car!
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I know, ancient thread here, but I think there is mis-information that needs corrected for future people that find old threads in their searches for information.
People are saying the "7" following the paint codes mean "California coupe". Doesn't it just mean USA delivery?
Also, if the owner doesn't have a data card, why does he think his car was a California Coupe? The pick of the brown car in the beginning of the thread is not of his actual car, the OP says it is a picture of a car like his. He needs a data card from MB Classic Center (not local MB dealership!!) to know if it was a coupe. I think there was a lot of discussion where there were not facts.
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People are saying the "7" following the paint codes mean "California coupe".
Correct !
For example : 180 G 387 H 7 means "California Coupé".
A 6 would indicate softtop plus hardtop mounted .... and so on. See the Wiki
Doesn't it just mean USA delivery?
Yes, that is the one following the type designation:
like
113 044 12 7 - that's an US delivery then.
A friend of mine has got 113 042 10 5 there - for European delivery (not Germany)
... and so on.
;) :D
Achim
(datacardfreak)
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Ok, so a car delivered hard top only, no rear seat is a 5. Thanks, I got the rows on the ID plate mixed up.
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Have you confirmed that the body number matches the Hood stamp and the hard-top Stamp?
Doesn't the underside of the soft top boot lid have the same number stamped as the hood and trunk? This would show original or not original - another clue to the story.
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I don't think the soft top lid or the trunk are numbered. Not sure though.
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My 230SL is a German market car and does have the body number noted on the soft top cover as shown in the attached picture
jb