Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Shvegel on April 15, 2021, 22:23:19
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It’s clock week this week. I pulled the clock apart, added a capacitor and diode then cleaned the points. That was about an hour’s work and the rest of the week was spent trying to adjust the accuracy. I have only managed to get it down to a couple minutes off a day and I am wondering if that is as good as it gets?
I am wonder what you experience is with the accuracy of the clock?
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I am within 1-2 min / 24h on the workbench. Every time I adjust, it goes the other way. I red somewhere that as soon as the temperature changes, it will change again.
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I think they are all not very accurate over time. I actually replaced mine in 1997 because I thought it was defective. Replacement was the same. I have tried to dial it in but it’s either too fast or too slow. Or worst yet it just changes🤣 I have read that battery voltage affects it also.
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My clock losses about a minute per day. I haven't bothered trying to "fix" it as it is easy enough to just move it forward a few minutes if I haven't used the car in a few days. First drive in the spring is a different matter, usually have have to move it forward a couple of hours.
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I think they are all not very accurate over time. I actually replaced mine in 1997 because I thought it was defective. Replacement was the same. I have tried to dial it in but it’s either too fast or too slow. Or worst yet it just changes🤣 I have read that battery voltage affects it also.
if you disconnect it it will at least show good time twice a day.
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If you take your clock to a watch repairman he should be able to set it to 16,200 BPH (beats per hour).
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VERY accurate. When restoring the instrumentation ~20 years ago, I converted the clock to quartz. Didn’t need the trouble of the quasi-electro-mechanical Kienzle movement; certainly there would be much more important things to worry about.
The accuracy is greater than the imprecision of the analog hands...and so good that the only corrections it ever needs are for daylight saving time. When I make that change any inaccuracies are also corrected.
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I have the same type of quartz clock as Michael, and the same experience: it is always on time, what small adjustment it may need is indeed taken care of twice a year when I adjust it to the winter/summer daylight time.
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My clock is in the shop now and it’s not much more to convert to quarts over their standard rebuild charge. I might go the quartz way given what I am reading on this post.
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Restomod!!
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My clock is in the shop now and it’s not much more to convert to quarts over their standard rebuild charge. I might go the quartz way given what I am reading on this post.
John--basically there is no accuracy on the original movement. It's too finicky. If you convert to quartz, you also do those a favor who insist upon 100% originality: you provide some parts to they can continue to maintain it.
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In my 40 years of ownership it's something I've learned to deal with. Start car, adjust clock, drive.
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Had my clocks (for 250 & 280) repaired by the late Lindquist. He kept them for a week to dial in the adjustment. They both keep very close time if I drive the car daily. They both are off by about a minute a day when the cars are not driven almost daily.
I recall the late great Naj having a very similar experience during the European event in Belgium a few years ago — he had told me that since he was driving the pagoda daily for a couple weeks through Europe the clock kept great time but does not do the same while resting for days.
I love the original wind sound the clocks make and very glad that David lindquist kept them going. Don’t care about the clocks being off occasionally.
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I have had my 113 for almost 40 years now and my 109 for 50 and the inaccuracy is part of the charm, like the occasional crackling of the radio. I also have grown fond of the clicking of the resetting of the clock's counterweight. I drive modern cars daily(their clocks are digital and accuracy is maintained by constant communication with the cloud), but when I sit in my 50+ year old cars with the inaccurate clocks, I feel, (as Jeremy Clarkson puts it) "somehow better off."
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As per Michael & Francois, since I changed my clock to quartz it never loses a minute.
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I side with those who get comfort from the sloppiness and regular reminder that the clock is working hard, doing its best to do what comes effortlessly to its younger brethren. Mine was also tuned by Dave Lindquist, so it's an opportunity to think of him.
I've also held off on LEDs on the dash because I like the dull yellowish glow of the instrument lights at night.
But I'm not a purist---I have a Pertronix in my distributor and aluminum steelies. So in certain areas, I do appreciate some well hidden upgrades. We each have our unique views of what we like, tolerate and dislike, leading us each to our particular Pagoda.
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Referencing observation about the inaccurate analog hands
I note that every time a adjust the minute hand, the hour hand seems to not keep up. After a few adjustments, this means that the hour hand gets way out of sync in where it should be. With a lot of finesse and revolutions, I can usually get it back where it should be, but it’s a frustrating pain.
Is there something different I should be doing?
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I sent my clock to get fixed and it came back looking pretty and loosing a couple minutes per day. I can deal with that compared to having a quartz clock.
I like vinyl records, mechanical watches and carbon steel cooking knives. I guess I'm old school.
I would rather put up with a bit of imperfection rather than put a "quartz" clock in my analog car.
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No argument there Bonnyboy. A question of sensitivity to some practical aspects, not necessarily shared. No one is right or wrong in my opinion.
I too love old things, some restored in strict conformity with the original, some a little bit adapted to modernity or comfort, for mostly practical reasons, having to do with safety sometimes, or just usability.
My car has LED lights, electronic ignition (123) and a quartz clock. I’m responsible for the LEDs, a PO for the ignition (bless him), another for the clock. I’m happy as it is. The car is a solid driver, and although it can still be improved quite a bit, it is not and never will be (with me as the owner) concours level.
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Here is an interesting set of questions. They are not rhetorical; I don't know the answer.
During the course of W113 production, did the "VDO-Kienzle" dashboard clock ever get changed from the electro-mechanical model, to the quartz? I've seen some faceplates marked quartz, but don't know if those were ever delivered as new when the car was assembled, or it was something made available to the instrumentation rebuilders when they did a conversion.
Follow on question would be, during some period after production ceased, but when a clock was available as a spare part from Mercedes-Benz, did they ever stop supplying the electro-mechanical model and replace it with quartz?
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One thing, by the way, that a clock is supposed to do is keep time in a reasonably accurate manner. The electro mechanical version was designed and built for places that don't see the temperature swings like, say, the northeast or north central parts of the USA. So those in CA who don't mind a few minutes here and there, might think differently if they got in there car when it was 15 degrees f outside. This is similar to the original European designed a/c units for cars. They barely know what hot is over there, and were not able to engineer a/c systems for cars. Now I think they have it right. There's nothing quaint about an a/c unit that cannot cool; and there's nothing quaint for me at least, with a clock that cannot keep time. If you are comforted by interesting mechanical sounds, I do have a [quaint] recording of Mercedes-Benz engine noises. Yes, of course, it's on a 33 ⅓ vinyl LP.. ;) If you don't clean the vinyl, don't put it though any signal processor, and play it through an analog amplifier, it will probably play with some [comforting] hiss, cracks and pops.
I'm happy that my car was an "organ donor" and all internal, behind the faceplate parts of my clock probably went to keep a number of other ones functioning. At the time my conversion was just $99.
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Just can't do the Quartz for all of the reasons mentioned and I have recently begun repairing pocket watches for fun. I drive my Pagoda because I like it's personality. The satisfying click of the clock is part of that. On my way out to the garage to see how this mornings' adjustment worked out.
Thank you for all the responses.
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...On my way out to the garage to see how this mornings' adjustment worked...
What was the temperature when you made the adjustment and what is the temperature this morning? 😉 Glad you’re having fun with this!
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A properly lubricated clock shouldn't be effected by temperature. Regardless, my garage is heated and air conditioned. I have to keep my machine tools happy.
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Hi I’m NOT A pagoda person yet but would like to be. I however am a clock person (Horologist) these clocks were a crazy design with the current be applied across a coil to pull in a lever that would wind the clock. The clock it self was manual. It needs to be wound at certain intervals to keep it running and in good time. If it skips a wind cycle you will loose time. Also clocks that operate by a spring wound mechanism are notoriously inaccurate since the tension on the spring will affect the running of the clock. Wound tight it runs fast until it winds down then it runs slow. If it is not getting a full wind from the electrically activated lever winding mechanism then it will never keep accurate time. I have taken the one out of my 220 and it would be more trouble than it’s worth to figure out a solution. As one other person said start the car adjust the clock and drive. I hope this helps.
Cheers
Pargolfer46
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Pargolfer46, Your description is spot on. The variance in the mainspring tension at any given moment is what has kept me from having it set by a watchmaker with a timer. I figure it will be much more accurate with a larger sample like 24 Hrs.
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if you disconnect it it will at least show good time twice a day.
Ha! That's what I did. It was a battery drain and disconnecting it helped a lot to ensure that it starts straight up.
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While driving my clock is spot on.
About 24 hours later, it's about 20 minutes slow.
Normal? Perhaps a drain of the power to the clock somewhere?
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Here’s my thinking:
I have a nice collection of wristwatches: Audemars-Piguet, Blancpain, Patek, Lange and Rolex. All are either mechanical or automatic movements except the Oysterquartz. Although they all keep great time, none, including the Oysterquartz, are as accurate as my cell phone. It’s what I always use for the most accurate time.
I like Pagodas because they’re old school. I like their mechanical fuel injectors, funky wipers, foot switch for high beams, crank windows and seat adjustments, etc etc. For me, whether the clock is accurate or not is irrelevant. I just love the fact that it ticks and it’s original to the car.
We own these cars because we enjoy them. If having consistently accurate time in your car is important to you, switch over to quartz but if you enjoy the peculiarities of a 50+ yo car, stick with analogue and realize it’s never going to be perfect.
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Years ago I was told that if your car is being judged in a MB concourse event and their is a tie between two cars point wise, one of the tie breakers the judges use is the clock, the more accurate clock time gets the extra 1/2 point and thus gets the award.
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The Quartz conversion was previously mentioned in this stream. I converted to quartz probably 15 years ago and now I only adjust my clock twice a year for daylight savings time. It is always accurate and the original face and bezel are on the clock. I do not believe anyone can determine it is quartz unless they open up the clock.
Ted280sl
1969 280SL
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You don't have to open the clock; just wait a couple of minutes. If you don't hear the telltale 'thunk', it's quartz.
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I have the original clock in my car and since purchase in 2003, I have never heard it "clunk". In a quiet garage, I can barely hear the ticking but never heard it wind. So, I wouldn't miss the mechanical inaccuracy. Where is a good place to get the quartz conversion and keep the original dial?
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I have the original clock in my car and since purchase in 2003, I have never heard it "clunk". In a quiet garage, I can barely hear the ticking but never heard it wind. So, I wouldn't miss the mechanical inaccuracy. Where is a good place to get the quartz conversion and keep the original dial?
Mine was done by Palo Alto Speedometer. There's also North Hollywood Speedometer and a number of other places, some mentioned here on the forums. In all cases they just remove the movement and keep the original hands and dial; what they do is not seen. I have seen some later models that say quartz on the faceplate but my conversion does not.
Like you, Ray, I couldn't care at all about funky mechanical sounds on a poorly designed clock that cannot keep good time. Others here would rather have no clock at all as opposed to a quartz conversion. It's whatever keeps you happy.