Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Theo113 on April 08, 2021, 21:57:07
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Does anyone have suggestions as to Polishing and Waxing? Perhaps based on your experience of good results or bad. Having just visited a very high-end restoration company it was suggested that my car was painted with good quality paint and rather than repaint it (40-60K) getting a good quality polish and wax job would show meaningful results. I found his comment quite credible as it was made prior to me demuring on his repaint job cost( a cost easily as much as the value of the car)
Thanks for any comments.
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Hi Theo
I have been doing my own polishing, paint correction etc ever since I owned my first car.
It definitely can transform the car.
Before jumping into some recommendations, you need to set realistic expectations as to what can be corrected and achieved with polishing etc. Any scratches that have breached the paint etc cannot obviously be corrected. But heavy defects, scratches, swirls etc can all be tackled.
There are great tutorials on the web as to how to get started.
My go to equipment is as follows:
Cleaning & prep:
1. Ph neutral car shampoo
2. Microfibre sponges
3. small leaf blower or similar
4. waffled towels & microfibre drying towels
5. Clay bar & lubricating fluid
6. Heavy duty bug & tar remover
7. wash buckets etc
Prep is important. Wash car and dry using the large waffled drying towels to blot out all the water. Then use the leaf blower to thoroughly blow away all water in and around rubber seals, sills, channels etc. This helps drastically in eliminating those minor swirls etc when drying off the car and ensuring no water comes into play when polishing. Our cars hold water everywhere !
Use the clay bar to further remove contaminants etc that car shampoo cant remove and then repeat car wash and dry.
Cutting/Polishing
I use Scholl polishes, compounds and pads together with a Dual Orbiter polisher. The DA or Random Orbital polishers are safe and dont burn the paint. The pros use the heavy duty rotary polishers. These are great for removing all kinds of defects but you can cause damage to your paint if you dont know how to use them properly.
I would then recommend going to the Scholl website (https://www.schollconcepts.com/en ) to select the compounds and pads required depending on what kind of defects you have (ie minor swirls, heavy scratches etc). They have charts and recommendations as to the combinations of compounds & pads to use for each scenario.
I typically start with a cutting compound to remove all scratches & swirls. Do a section at a time and then wipe off with microfibre towel. Then I will use a finishing polish to make the paint absolutely glossy & clear.
Then I apply a wax. I use Collinite. It is amazing. Was developed & used initially to coat exposed components of electrical generators etc in various USA cities/states. The car scene quickly cottoned on and this wax works brilliantly on any paint finish. I still get beading after 12 months. It has great durability and gloss.
I apply the wax by hand using a soft pad. Then buff with a soft polishing bad and wipe away with microfibre. Many folks also use ceramic coatings etc. These work really well but usually should be applied by a professional as they flash very quickly.
Some cases you may need to use wet sanding on faded or lack lustre paint This also can achieve incredible results. Car then has to go through polishing steps above after wet sanding. I would recommend a paint shop or detailer to do this if you are unsure.
Watch the tutorials on the web for polishing techniques etc. Take your time and you will be amazed at what you can achieve !
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There is a big difference between treating paint and paint/clearcoat. If you deal with original paint or paint from the 80s, a totally different recipe may apply.
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Does anyone have suggestions as to Polishing and Waxing? Perhaps based on your experience of good results or bad. Having just visited a very high-end restoration company it was suggested that my car was painted with good quality paint and rather than repaint it (40-60K) getting a good quality polish and wax job would show meaningful results. I found his comment quite credible as it was made prior to me demuring on his repaint job cost( a cost easily as much as the value of the car)
Thanks for any comments.
Theo113,
You did not indicate if the paint on your car is the original factory finish or if it has been repainted at some point. I am not a paint expert by any stretch of the imagination but I think there could be a difference in approach depending on what type of paint is on your car.
After 45 plus years of polishing, the paint on my car was wearing thin in a few places and I was no longer able to bring up a good shine with products and techniques I had always used. A new expensive re-paint would have resolved the problem but the original paint was perfect in places and I wanted to keep the car as original as possible. I consulted one of the better local specialty detail companies and they convinced me to try ceramic coating.
They were able to bring the finish up to a very high level and more or less lock in the high gloss finish with the ceramic coating. The finish is still recognizable as original paint with an abundance of character and receives high compliments wherever I take it. It obviously is not equivalent to a new high end paint job but it has been a very satisfying solution for me. You can see a picture of my car on the inside front cover of the latest issue of Pagoda World. This work was done over four years ago.
If your car has been repainted at some point but still has a very sound paint system over all, you might still want to consider ceramic coating. The products the detail shops use on newer finishes are different from those used on older paint such as my original paint but they are very effective.
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Here's a really good example where videos would help make it clear what the correct procedures include. Particularly since I presume that wise polishing/waxing is the same for our cars as for pretty much any valuable cars, there's probably some videos out there already. Maybe those of you who have spent hours watching them could recommend the least boring, most efficient teaching videos you've seen?
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Hello Franjo
Thank you very much for your amazingly knowledgable and very detailed response to my Polish/Waxing question. I am most certian I am not capable of the high level of detailed effort that you have applied to your Pagoda. I will use your comments as a guide post when qualifying a professional to do the work. I had heard horror stories of polishing done poorly with damaging results which sparked my inquiry here. Thanks again I do admire your willingness to undertake this project and the ability to complete it successfully. Thankyou!
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Mike, thank you I will be sure the difference in paint is recognized by whoever is selected to do the work. Excellent point, thanks.
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Hello Ralph,
Very interesting, experience-based information offering an additional approach to my paint issues. The results you have obtained are definitely excellent. As mentioned the "high-end" restoration shop would do the polishing/waxing work with some considerable delay therefore I will attempt to find an alternative professional to do the work. Using your information and that of others here as a guide. Thankyou
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PJ... thanks for the suggestion of videos. At this time after reading the responses here I will use the knowledge gained, including that in videos, to select a professional to do the polishing (color correction). Thank you
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Regarding what I know about the paint on my red 66 230sl is that it was repainted at some time prior to my acquiring it 22 years ago. According to the badge, the original color was white. I was quite surprised when the paint guy at the restoration shop said that the current paint was of high quality, I did not expect that.
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There is a big difference between treating paint and paint/clearcoat. If you deal with original paint or paint from the 80s, a totally different recipe may apply.
Hi Mike & others
The same products and techniques apply to all paints.
My 230SL has a single stage paint, whereas my other cars have metallic base paint with clear coat, two stage acrylic etc. Only difference is that some cars have "soft" paint finishes which means that get swirls, scratches etc easier than "hard" paints but require less effort to correct when buffing & polishing.
The only paint type that you would not use this on would be matt finishes.
Regarding other comments on ceramic coating - you still need to ensure any defects are corrected and that paint finish is swirl free etc for the best result when applying the ceramic coating.
Where you have paint fade or clear coat peel on cars - this cannot be corrected by polishing alone. Wet sanding can fix this sometimes but does involve taking away layers of paint to get the desired result. Depends really on the degree of deterioration of paint.
@ Theo - you definitely can learn to do this yourself ! Involves patience and some sweat :)
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Hi Theo,
I have had the good fortune to find a local detailing shop here in NW CT that does amazing work. My SL was repainted a few years ago in Glasurit, so it doesn't need a lot of care beyond beyond paint cleaning and ceramic coating. I can't praise the ceramic finish enough -- the car stays amazingly clean and is very easy to wash all through the year (I get this done once a year). I have a couple of older cars where the finish is not as pristine as the SL and the shop has taken them from "10-footers" down to "5-footers" (some expertly done paintless dent repair certainly helped). As pointed out, not all shops are created equal and you need to find some that really understands the differences in paints and will give you an honest appraisal on what to expect. I found my shop by asking a couple of different classic car dealers whom they used and once my shop's name came up three times, I knew I was on to something. Word of mouth really helps here.
Lowell
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Good Day Lowpad,
Thanks for relating your experience, very interesting. It is a good thing when one can find "the guy". Based on comments here my guy does check all the boxes.
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Franjo Regarding sweat and patience, I am not opposed to the sweat part but what I have a deficit of is patience. I have demonstrated this to myself when working on other projects much simpler than that which you have described. I admire you on both counts and including
in that knowledge.
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Theo113, I have seen and heard about costs of $12K to $15K for a repaint job not more than that. The paint (if original), on our cars from the 60s, is of very high quality. To begin with I would recommend to you you find a good quality detailing shop to go over your car and then decide what to do if anything. If you in the end like to completely repaint then call people like Bud's Benz, talk to Dave and ask him what he would charge you for a good Mercedes quality paint job.
Dieter
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Rolf-Dieter: You are very lucky to have access to anyone who would paint a w113 for that money! I have two "friends" who have body/paint jobs and none of them would touch a Vinatge car like our SL for much less than 25-30K. There is much more profit in insurance work and they just do not want to clog their shop with a project like this. You will have to find a "restoration" place and they are pricey!
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Dieter, thanks for your comment regarding the cost of re-painting a vintage Pagoda. The 40k plus estimate was from a restoration company known for extremely high-quality work at all levels of restoration. He did comment on the good quality of my current paint and suggested the color correction and coating was the best way forward. I was also taken back by his starting price for a repaint. From bare metal, it is a five-step process, and considering the quality of the 23 cars in his shop he most certainly does not need my paint job. Reading ahead the comment regarding body shops not wanting to do vintage cars is something I have heard before and witnessed. As stated there is too much risk and more money in collision repair work. You are fortunate if you have prices like that from people you trust. Thanks again!
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Hey Mike, I have heard and experienced the same thing for the same reasons you have stated. I would not want to work with a shop that forwarded that thinking. I have a friend that did and regretted doing so. Thankfully the paint job he ruined was not a Pagoda but he is still kicking himself for trusting his local body shop.
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Deiter, The suggestion to call Bud's Bens is appreciated he certainly does good work and knows. Benz.....thanks
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40-60k for a paint job? What the heck? I had my car repainted 10 years ago from a very reputable paint shop, and it cost around 10k. They did a magnificent job; I get compliments for my paint all the time even today. You should be able to get a very good paint job for 10-20k.
Regarding polishing, I just took my car to get a paint correction to get rid of the scratches incurred over the last 10 years, mostly from car washes. A full 3 stage paint correction cost about $500-600, so you might want to try that before going for a repaint. I have also been advised not to try polishing or doing a paint correction by myself; an inexperienced person could burn right through the clear coat.
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Agree that paint correction should never be attempted using a rotary polisher unless you are experienced with this. Very easy to burn the paint as they have great cutting power.
If you are starting out and want to try doing paint correction yourself, get a good dual action or random orbital unit.
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By coincidence, I had a professional detailing company polish my car today. The car was repainted in Germany 25 years ago and needed more oxidation removal than I was comfortable tackling. These guys carefully checked the paint before starting, even using a paint thickness measuring tool. They used both rotary and orbital polishers and the result is fantastic. I can keep this in great shape with frequent waxing, but I wanted the professionals to manage the risky polishing with rubbing compound.
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Looks great !
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Love the boat - did they do that as well?
Nice Toys.