Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Electrical and Instruments => Topic started by: scoot on January 16, 2021, 21:08:50
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Hi,
Going through the radio closet - and I'm not sure of something. I think of early Pagodas coming with factory installed radios as having a small-faced Europa TG. Is there an earlier radio than that used in a 230 SL? For example, a Becker Highway HiFi?
thanks
Scott
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My 1965/6 230 had a radio fitted by the dealer (I think) not sure if it was from the factory. Its a Blaupunkt Frankfurt. It fits nicely into the smaller hole. I didn't realise the early cars had a much smaller radio and fitment gap. I guess only very early cars had the smaller panel.
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Hi,
attached some detail of a pricelist from 1963 which radios could be ordered as option.
...WRe
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My 1965/6 230 had a radio fitted by the dealer (I think) not sure if it was from the factory. Its a Blaupunkt Frankfurt. It fits nicely into the smaller hole. I didn't realise the early cars had a much smaller radio and fitment gap. I guess only very early cars had the smaller panel.
Yes, in the middle of the 250SL production it switched from the small opening to the larger opening.
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Hi,
attached some detail of a pricelist from 1963 which radios could be ordered as option.
...WRe
I'm fairly sure the Stereo radios as well as the cassette player weren't available in 1963. I don't think Becker was doing stereo or cassette then.
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Hi,
attached some detail of a pricelist from 1963 which radios could be ordered as option.
Nee, nee nee Wolfgang...,
das stimmt nicht. ;)
WRe,
Scott is right, the list you attached must be from 1969 or even 1970...;
the Stereo radios weren't available before...
In 1963 (and 1964's price lists)
the only available Beckers were the
Grand Prix TG (tube type)
and
Europa TG (sem-tube type AFAIK)
radios.
This changed in 1965 when there were introduced the
Grand Prix TR
Europa TR
and
Mexico TR,
all of which fully transitorized.
In 1967 this was changed again to the norm size/larger cut-out-sized
Radios as was ususal for late 250 SLs and all 280 SLs.
A complete list of all used Becker radios of all over the Pagoda preiod won't be easy.
They have their own history.
Achim
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I am just curious, looking for a radio for 190SL, and came across this:
https://www.chromelondon.com/becker-europa-ii-stereo-vintage-chrome-classic-car-fm-radio-mercedes-190sl-113-porsche-ferrari-etype-6109-p.asp
But it does not seem to have been offered by Mercedes, here a late radio list for 190SL:
511 Radio (Becker Mexico)
514 Radio (Becker Europa LMU)
515 Radio (Becker MU US)
525 Touch-up Paint
531 Automatic Antenna (Instead of Manual Antenna)
532 Automatic Antenna (Without Radio Installation)
533 Radio Interference Suppression on Engine and Front Hubs)
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I am just curious, looking for a radio for 190SL, and came across this:
https://www.chromelondon.com/becker-europa-ii-stereo-vintage-chrome-classic-car-fm-radio-mercedes-190sl-113-porsche-ferrari-etype-6109-p.asp
But it does not seem to have been offered by Mercedes, here a late radio list for 190SL:
511 Radio (Becker Mexico)
514 Radio (Becker Europa LMU)
515 Radio (Becker MU US)
525 Touch-up Paint
531 Automatic Antenna (Instead of Manual Antenna)
532 Automatic Antenna (Without Radio Installation)
533 Radio Interference Suppression on Engine and Front Hubs)
As much as I like the work of Chrome London, that is not a 190 SL radio. I kind of wonder if my Europa MU Highway HiFi might be... perhaps option 515...
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Thank you! It matches the style, but I understand was not available from factory.
I do not want to side-track this thread, so to close the 190SL connection: here are the pre1961 options and the link to the page with some radio examples:
SA 55096/1 Becker Mexico Radio with Antenna
SA 55096/2 Becker La Mans Radio with Reims Adapter
SA 55096/3 Becker Brescia Radio
SA 55096/4 Becker Europa with Hirschman Antenna
https://www.190slgroup.com/tech/det_int.htm
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Hi Achim,
you are right I mixed it up with a pricelist from 1971.
Attached the right pricelist from 1963 and a cross-check with Becker car radios from 1962-1964.
... Wolfgang
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I have a 1964 230sl and was told , not by Chrome London, that this was correct for the year.
https://www.chromelondon.com/becker-europa-tr-vintage-chrome-classic-car-fm-radio-amp-mp3-seevideo-mintwarranty-ferrari-330-275-mercedes-111-112-113-sl-porsche-911-912-4236-p.asp
Although I liked it it didn’t have stereo, and by the time I added blue tooth it became very expensive. I therefore went for the later radio, which did have stereo, and added the Bluetooth and USB charger. Chrome London then kindly created the more delicate knobs of the earlier style onto it, which gave a more period look. Chrome London stated that ‘ TR is a mono radio, the Europa II is a true stereo radio, much rarer. They are cosmetically identical.‘
So that’s what I went for ‘Europa II Stereo‘
I know purists won’t like the idea, but my car, my rules 🤣
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I have a 1964 230sl and was told , not by Chrome London, that this was correct for the year.
https://www.chromelondon.com/becker-europa-tr-vintage-chrome-classic-car-fm-radio-amp-mp3-seevideo-mintwarranty-ferrari-330-275-mercedes-111-112-113-sl-porsche-911-912-4236-p.asp
Well they were wrong. The pic at that link is a through-the-dash style radio, not the kind with the chrome bezel/dial scale combination. A Europa TR or TG could be correct, but not the style shown in the picture.
Although I liked it it didn’t have stereo, and by the time I added blue tooth it became very expensive. I therefore went for the later radio, which did have stereo, and added the Bluetooth and USB charger. Chrome London then kindly created the more delicate knobs of the earlier style onto it, which gave a more period look. Chrome London stated that ‘ TR is a mono radio, the Europa II is a true stereo radio, much rarer. They are cosmetically identical.‘
Not correct! The TR is a mono radio and the Europa II is a stereo radio, but the Europa II is _MUCH_ more common.
So that’s what I went for ‘Europa II Stereo‘
I know purists won’t like the idea, but my car, my rules 🤣
I'm fine with that. But the Europa II Stereo is a big-face radio, and your car has a small-face opening... That's not going to work...
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....But the Europa II Stereo is a big-face radio, and your car has a small-face opening... That's not going to work...
Actually I made it work for my 1966 230SL that I sold but without this radio. :D
Had it paired with modern Alpine speakers under a Becker square speaker cover (https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Speakers)
and it sounded very good to my ears.
I was debating whether to install everything again in the 1964 230SL but decided that it was too much work.
I'll probably sell it now.
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Actually I made it work for my 1966 230SL that I sold but without this radio.
That's a big face radio fitted with a small face front. I'm not sure how they did the tone arm. I approve strongly!
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Well they were wrong. The pic at that link is a through-the-dash style radio, not the kind with the chrome bezel/dial scale combination. A Europa TR or TG could be correct, but not the style shown in the picture.
Not correct! The TR is a mono radio and the Europa II is a stereo radio, but the Europa II is _MUCH_ more common.I'm fine with that. But the Europa II Stereo is a big-face radio, and your car has a small-face opening... That's not going to work...
Scoot
Well all I can say is that it did fit! The garage didn’t make the dash hole any bigger but obviously I don’t know if previous owners did. I couldn’t see any exposed bare metal around the radio ‘hole’ and I can’t believe anyone would have taken the effort to do that.
To be honest, the radios being shown, to me, but I’m new to this, have a style I would say is more reminiscent of the earlier 190SL.
From the book ‘factory original Mercedes SL’ by James Taylor, the radios certainly looks the same/similar in proportion to mine
Who would have guessed that such an innocent posed, would have created such an emotional response!!!
Anyway, mine fits, it looks good with the more delicate knobs that ARE in keeping with the period, and I’m happy
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Well they were wrong. The pic at that link is a through-the-dash style radio, not the kind with the chrome bezel/dial scale combination. A Europa TR or TG could be correct, but not the style shown in the picture.
Not correct! The TR is a mono radio and the Europa II is a stereo radio
That’s what said!!!
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Ooh, found some pictures of mine
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Scoot
Well all I can say is that it did fit! The garage didn’t make the dash hole any bigger but obviously I don’t know if previous owners did.
After seeing the pics of your radio (which looks very nice!) I understand why it fits. That's a through-the-dash version that would work with a car that had a center hole for the dial/buttons and two side holes for the volume/tuning shafts. And then a face plate is put on. That's a common after-market approach and it looks fine, it's just not the way they looked coming out of the factory at MB...
From the book ‘factory original Mercedes SL’ by James Taylor, the radios certainly looks the same/similar in proportion to mine
Now that is quite interesting. And kind of a problem/mistake in that book. The radio shown is stated to be a "period" Becker Europa. But it isn't. It's a big faced radio that required dash cutting to install.
Who would have guessed that such an innocent posed, would have created such an emotional response!!!
Allow me to explain my emotional response. I think when major vintage radio sellers (I can think of two off the top of my head) state that a radio is "correct" for a particular car, they are sometimes being misleading. Yes, it will fit but it is not what the car would have come with if it came from the factory. I think it is misleading to buyers and my passion about this is for buyers to not be taken advantage of or fooled by vendors.
The technical manual shows a little about the early and late face sizes here:
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Radio scroll down a bit.
Here's a picture of a small-faced Grand Prix, compare that with the shape of the Europa that the SL book shows it its image...
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https://youtu.be/Qz1aIaQgO-Q
My Europa Highway Hi-Fi !
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Hi Scott
Very interesting
I wasn’t aware MB ever provided cars with radios? I thought it was always the dealers that fitted these? Do not all the radios fit through the dash? Ie from memory, there are a couple of metal plates, for want of a better word, that then hold the radio in place? How is your radio fitted? Sorry, just asking out of curiosity.....
A little off piste, here is a picture of John Lennon’s 230sl, which I don’t believe he drove for any worth of distance, but he had an 8 track installed 😁. Thought you may find it interesting?
As mentioned, I wanted a stereo radio and whilst having a ‘period’ radio would have been fab, paying the extra money (I believe with all the conversions required it came to just over £1,000) not so much. Therefore had to balance the two and with the more delicate knobs added, this worked for me 😁
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Mercedes supplied Becker radios from the factory. Other radios, e.g.: Blaupunkt were dealer-installed. Car could be ordered "prepped" for radio installation.
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... Do not all the radios fit through the dash? Ie from memory, there are a couple of metal plates, for want of a better word, that then hold the radio in place? How is your radio fitted? Sorry, just asking out of curiosity.....
Hello Merc_Girl,
if your curiosity gets stronger and keeps you awake at night then try this proven and effective remedy: ;D
our technical manual: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Radio
Scan down all the way to "Removing Radio" and you'll see the later DIN cut out in the dash and the earlier larger dash cut out covered by a plate that holds the "small face" radios.
I know purists won’t like the idea, but my car, my rules 🤣
👏 Ignore the purists and enjoy the sound of your radio!
Did you ever tall us where you installed the stereo speaker pair and what kind? Now I am curious. ;)
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Hi Alfred
Thank you, I can now sleep at night 😁. I must admit, I thought this was how my radio was fitted, I don’t believe the garage drilled holes in the dash for shafts. That’s got me curious now so will have to take a look
So, speakers, I may have got a wee bit over ambitious with those, as they say, it didn’t look that big in the picture!! They are fitted in the foot wells. So, garage did manage to put them in but had to do a bit of cutting, I believe, in the metal work to fit them. Also, the speaker sits proud and as such, is pretty close to the accelerator pedal, so for a left hooker, I guess that would be you clutch pedal (?) which wouldn’t be as bad. I then took the grill off and sprayed red to match the interior.
Speakers are called ‘kicker’, and seemed to have positive reviews
https://www.kicker.com/41DSC44
So, I haven’t used the traditional ‘square’ speakers 😁
Katie
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Speakers are called ‘kicker’, and seemed to have positive reviews
https://www.kicker.com/41DSC44
So, I haven’t used the traditional ‘square’ speakers 😁
The traditional square speakers have round speakers inside. :-)
I'm surprised that the Europa II Stereo has enough wattage to drive those speakers, but as long as it sounds good, enjoy!
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Hi Scott
I know London Chrome had to do some mods to the radio, so maybe they did that as well. I sent the details of the speakers to the company and they confirmed that would be ok. You can certainly pump the music, Bon Jovi!!, out, without distortion 🤣
Yep was aware speakers were round with a square cover, just don’t like the square covers given most parts of the interior are round or curved, thought a little incongruous.
Katie