Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: Paul99 on November 29, 2020, 12:19:22
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My existing tyres are now 10 years old so thinking of changing. Although not many UK cars have whitewalls, they do seem to make the tyres look less "balloony"
Anyone tried these:
https://www.blockleytyre.com/product/185hr14-white-wall
They are a bit cheaper than the Michelin MXV whitewalls, but not sure if Blockley are any good?
My existing tyres are budget tyres (Falcon SN807) and have been great (non whitewalls) , and they cost almost the same for four as one of the Blockley tyres, so an interesting dilemma.
Thoughts ?
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I dont know if you have Hankooks in the UK. they have the white wall. i like the tread pattern better than the one you posted a pic of. all 4 tires at Walmart here in NJ were around $250. I went slights wider 195. I ordered mine online from walmart and had them sent to the store and they mounted the tires balanced etc.
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https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hankook-Optimo-H724-195-60R14-85-T-Tire/17792792?wmlspartner=wlpa&selectedSellerId=0&&adid=22222222227015527765&wl0=&wl1=g&wl2=c&wl3=40839798152&wl4=aud-1025747331336:pla-78652870832&wl5=9004007&wl6=&wl7=&wl8=&wl9=pla&wl10=8175035&wl11=online&wl12=17792792&veh=sem&gclid=Cj0KCQiAqo3-BRDoARIsAE5vnaIyEvERgAkoxaSAblon3h0kVH5H_mYaaee_XjAD6egeVcN-Isb9-ZoaAoYUEALw_wcB
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These are nice!
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Indeed. However I cannot seem to find them over here (France). Only one vendor, showing out of stock.
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So my existing tyres are 185/80/14 can i fit 195's on the factory standard 1965 steel rims?
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I've fitted many Blockley tyres to customers' cars without issue.
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Yes 195s fit just fine. They are only slightly wider. No issues.
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For a 195 tire to approximate the same dimensions (diameter / circumference) as a 185/80, it would need to be a 195/75-R14. I have not seen any tires of this dimension anywhere. Only 195/70-R14, which is quite a bit smaller.
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This is what I have
https://www.americastire.com/buy-tires/hankook-optimo-h724/p/10702 (https://www.americastire.com/buy-tires/hankook-optimo-h724/p/10702)
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... it would need to be a 195/75-R14. I have not seen any tires of this dimension anywhere. ...
Perhaps not available in France but here is at least one with an H rating in Germany (Nankang N-605) (and several with a T rating)
https://reifen.pkwteile.de/ganzjahresreifen/195-75-r14
How good that one is is of course another question. ;)
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I’ll eat my hat, as we say in France, or ‘I stand corrected’. I had in fact been looking for such tires, kind of casually as I’m not in a hurry, but couldn’t find any. Thanks to your link, I have indeed found several. They seem to be registered in the ‘small utility vehicle’ category. Hum, something to think about...
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Which ones have yo found in Europe? I tried to find these Hankooks, but failed so far...
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These are 195 75R14.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hankook-Optimo-H724-P195-75R14/17792572?findingMethod=wpa
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The last time I changed my tires I went to Maxxis 195 75 R14 with the narrow white stripe. I am pretty sure Maxxis sells into the UK. I do not know if they carry this size. I have been well satisfied with these.
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Maxxis whitewalls are available in Portugal. If they are here then they are certainly also in the UK.
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For 195/75 R14 white wall tyres, then check here: (UK based dealer)
https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyres/195-75-14.html
They both have the Hankook and Milestar white wall tyres, but both are only S-rated. We need at least H-rated for our cars to be street legal. Especially in Germany, they are very picky about that!
If you are ok with a 25 mm white wall, and want an in-expensive 185R14 tyre, then look for the Radar Dimax Classic tyre. They cost less than 70 EUR a piece and are H-rated. I have a set of these tyres on one of my 280SLs, though in 205/70R14 (W-rated) black wall on Fuchs alu-rims, and I am quite happy with them. They have them with most of the big online tyre dealers in Europe, like: https://www.reifenleader.de/autoreifen/radar/dimax-classic/185r14-90h-949958
You can read more about the Radar Dimax Classic tyres here: https://www.omni-united.com/index.php/radar/dimax-classic
Also check this German classic tyre dealer which seems to sell white wall tyres made based on black wall tyres from many different brands by simply vulcanating the white wall stripe onto the tyre: https://www.vintagewheels.de
Hope this helps! :)
Cheers,
Christian
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Just installed (4) HANKOOK KINERGY ST whitewalls on my 65 230SL for under $270.00 U.S. total price. 195/75/14's. Great tires. Take a look.
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Hankooks are the way to go, except when they mounted mine
there was some residual oil that they used to get the tires on the rims and when I got home it ran on the w/w
and I cannot get the stain out
Anybody have any ideas of how to get it off?
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There are several commercial products available. I like the WSW cleaner from Jay Leno's Garage and a stiff / short bristle nylon brush, also SOS pads and Mr. Clean Magic Eraser cleaning pads. Last resort is a very fine grit sandpaper.
Good luck!
Norm
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Norm,
Love that 162 Blue/Grey. Hope all is well.
John
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Just installed (4) HANKOOK KINERGY ST whitewalls on my 65 230SL for under $270.00 U.S. total price. 195/75/14's. Great tires. Take a look.
They look GREAT on your car!! :D
I did some research and the KINERGY ST model seems to have replaced the OPTIMO H724 which was the previous model they sold in 195/75R14 with a thin white stripe (16-17 mm), and which I did not like too much, both because it was only S-rated and as the side-walls writing looked a bit too modern for my taste.
Thus, can I ask you please to maybe make some close-ups of your new KINERGY tires, so that we can see them up close as well? Also, if you can measure the width of the white stripe it would be great! :)
I have trouble finding the KINERGY ST model in Europe. Does anyone know where to buy them in Europe? Or would I have to import them from the US with expensive shipping and costums fees?
Cheers,
Christian :)
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Personally I have not had good luck with Hankook tires of any kind when delivered as OEM tires on Ford products. I think on the third set on my 3rd or 4th Flex, I just changed them to Michelin and what an unbelievable difference in feel and handling. It was Optimos at the time, and replaced with Primacy, the ones that came in the Flex size...but I digress. We have very few options in a size that fits, and even less so with a WW, so as the saying goes, "beggars cannot be choosers". Seems that the other tires that fit, Sprint Classic, Classic Michelin, Coker Phoenix are all very costly.
For Berggreen (Christian) perhaps in DK you have some discounted tire shops and they may be able to offer tires what are not available here in USA/North America. So, pay a visit to a few shops and see what they can find in the appropriate sizing...185-14, 195/75-14, 205/70-14 etc. You may come up with one that we cannot find.
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For Berggreen (Christian) perhaps in DK you have some discounted tire shops and they may be able to offer tires what are not available here in USA/North America. So, pay a visit to a few shops and see what they can find in the appropriate sizing...185-14, 195/75-14, 205/70-14 etc. You may come up with one that we cannot find.
Thanx, this is good advice. :)
We do have some low priced alternatives in Europe, like eg. the Radar Dimax Classic (see my post above), but unfortunately they all have wider side stribes, around 25-28 mm. I think this looks great on the 230/250SL with the old-style hub caps. But for the 280SL with the one-piece hub caps, I personally prefer tyres with the narrow side stribes, thus less than 20 mm.
Most of the expensive tyres like Michelin, Vredestein, Dunlop, Pirelli, etc. all have 20 mm stribes. But I prefer the 16-17 mm which many of the cheaper alternatives on the US market have. Only down-side is that most of these tyres are only S-rated (max. 180 kmh), whereas we should actually not go below H-rated (210 kmh), which is what the Pagoda is rated for. In Germany they are very strict on this, and if they stop you are see less than H-rated tyres on your Pagoda, you cannot drive from the site! In Denmark, and I guess other European countries as well, they are not as strict. But you do not want to rule out a drive to Germany in your Pagoda, due to low-rated tyres!
However, the Hankook KINERGY ST tyres are T-rated (190 kmh), and they look like they have the pretty narrow side stribes, thus they seem an acceptable nice looking alternative to the expensive tyres. A runner up could be the Milestars in the same size, also with the same 16-17 mm side stribes, though only S-rated. But no drive to Germany with these tyres unfortunately. :(
Does anyone have experience with the Milestars?
Cheers,
Christian :)
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Actually, S speed rating means 180 km/h or 112 MPH, and that is, as we would say, "crazy fast" to be driving in anything other than the most optimal conditions; that would be an empty autobahn with no traffic, dry conditions, during the day. Very few places where that can happen anymore.
So, you are saying that if you get pulled over by the police in Germany (no matter what for), and the police look at the speed ratings of your tires, they will then go to a database of 50 year old cars, and see that it once carried H rated tires, they will prevent you from driving away?
...and the Europeans have long lamented about crazy American automotive rules...
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Actually, S speed rating means 180 km/h or 112 MPH, and that is, as we would say, "crazy fast" to be driving in anything other than the most optimal conditions; that would be an empty autobahn with no traffic, dry conditions, during the day. Very few places where that can happen anymore.
So, you are saying that if you get pulled over by the police in Germany (no matter what for), and the police look at the speed ratings of your tires, they will then go to a database of 50 year old cars, and see that it once carried H rated tires, they will prevent you from driving away?
...and the Europeans have long lamented about crazy American automotive rules...
Yes, it is a bit crazy, and I would not go that fast either. But because the car is actually able to go that fast, the tires have to match this speed.
It's all about conformity, and as I understand it this is not only about tires, but basically all parts on the car. if a spare part is not meant for the car originally and/or manufactured by other suppliers than Mercedes, then the part has to have a certificate of conformity, typically from the German TÜV to be street legal. Your insurance could also be an issue, if you use parts which are not "legal" for the car.
I actually think it is the same rules all over the EU, but as far as I know, only the Germans are really enforcing them on classic cars. Here in Denmark they are not enforced with the same rigor. But basically yes, if you are stopped by the police or you go for your regular safety inspection, and you do not have at least H-rated tires on your Pagoda, you will be in trouble.
This is also why the German Pagoda clubs have actually asked Bockley to come up with a H-rated and cheaper white stripe alternative to the Michelins, Vredesteins etc.. Thus, as I understand it, the Bockley 185R14 tyre was developed due to this request from the German Pagoda clubs/sections.
But maybe some of our German members on the Forum can confirm this and give more details? :)
Cheers,
Christian
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This is also why the German Pagoda clubs have actually asked Bockley to come up with a H-rated and cheaper white stripe alternative to the Michelins, Vredesteins etc.. Thus, as I understand it, the Bockley 185R14 tyre was developed due to this request from the German Pagoda clubs/sections.
You should know that the Coker Phoenix tire, according to the original offering, noted that they were developed in conjunction with the German Mercedes-Benz "Old-timer" club...
Nothing in low volume will be cheap.
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You should know that the Coker Phoenix tire, according to the original offering, noted that they were developed in conjunction with the German Mercedes-Benz "Old-timer" club...
Nothing in low volume will be cheap.
True, but the Cokers are insanely expensive in Europe - even more than the Michelins and I have read about questionable quality! :-/
The Bockleys are priced around 200 EUR a piece here.
Cheers,
Christian
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The Cokers (made in the Michelin factory in Mexico, by the way) may be insanely expensive, but by contrast so are the Michelins in that size here. The Vredestein isn't exactly cheap for the size (starting at $150.00 but no whitewall). The Blockley simply isn't available here w/o some self-import deal, which would add a considerable cost.
The topic is worthy of my time since I do need to get new tires in 2021. I do have the Cokers, were extremely pleased with them (once balanced properly) but they are too old to drive safely now. I did get them before they became insane, only when they were "very expensive".
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The Cokers (made in the Michelin factory in Mexico, by the way) may be insanely expensive, but by contrast so are the Michelins in that size here. The Vredestein isn't exactly cheap for the size (starting at $150.00 but no whitewall). The Blockley simply isn't available here w/o some self-import deal, which would add a considerable cost.
The topic is worthy of my time since I do need to get new tires in 2021. I do have the Cokers, were extremely pleased with them (once balanced properly) but they are too old to drive safely now. I did get them before they became insane, only when they were "very expensive".
Thanks and very interesting to hear that the Cokers are made in the Michelin factory in Mexico - I did not know that!
Also interesting to hear that you have been happy with them. May I ask, how old are your Cokers now, since you want to replace them?
The Vredesteins are for some reason cheaper in Europe - a notch lower than the Michelins, both with and without white stripes. Maybe because the Vredesteins are made in Europe? Just guessing....
I read yesterday that the Hancooks are made in Hancooks factory in Tennessee, USA, and not in Korea, where Hancook has its headquarters. The Milestarts I found are made in China, and thus they fell out from my list of candidates! :-(
Cheers,
Christian
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I would like to say, and I don't remember exactly, that the Cokers are probably about 15 years old now. While there is no dry rot or cracking, they just don't hold the road like they should and it's way too easy to "lock them up" even on dry pavement. Ten years is a shelf life of a tire regardless of the tread left on it.
When I bought the set I ended up changing one out since it would not dynamically balance. At first Coker balked at replacement until I told them the equipment used to balance, then they had no issue and sent a replacement.
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I would like to say, and I don't remember exactly, that the Cokers are probably about 15 years old now. While there is no dry rot or cracking, they just don't hold the road like they should and it's way too easy to "lock them up" even on dry pavement. Ten years is a shelf life of a tire regardless of the tread left on it.
When I bought the set I ended up changing one out since it would not dynamically balance. At first Coker balked at replacement until I told them the equipment used to balance, then they had no issue and sent a replacement.
Thanks that is very useful. I was recently offered a set of Cokers from Germany, but they were from 2008 and 2010, and I was reluctant to buy them, even though they had 7mm or more thread, and the price was pretty low compared to a new set. But I can hear that I should probably be careful about tires that old. Or what do you think?
Ok., and the balancing was also what I read threads about here on the forum that people have had issues with the Cokers.
Thanks also for the pdf, you sent me on the balancing. Highly appreciated! :)
Cheers,
Christian
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NO. Do not buy tires that are 10-12 years old, not to drive on at least. Doesn't matter what the price is.
See out a Hunter Road Force Balance in DK, worth the effort regardless of the tires.
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doing 112mph in car with no airbags and a hard steering wheel does not sound like fun.