Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Pengue on November 03, 2020, 16:03:40
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I'm thinking of having the fuel injection manifold and fuel lines plated/anodized along with the accelerator arm the goes across the valve over. I often see these cosmetic upgrade on rebuilt engines and I think it looks great.
Is there a particular plating/anodizing for this type of work (i.e. bronze)? How did these engine components come when they left West Germany? Does this take away from originality/value?
Thanks for any input!
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The fuel injection lines are indeed plated.
They are made of steel, and the plating is cadmium with a phosphate wash. True cadmium plating is harder to find than it once was because of its toxicity, but it just means you have to look harder. Cadmium plating provides a bright silvery finish. The phosphate wash adds a secondary sacrificial coating and changes the color to a gold-ish, however a number of factors affect the exact color.
Today, it is more common to use a zinc plating. Zinc also provides a silvery finish, but a bit duller than cadmium. A similar phosphate wash provides the same secondary sacrificial coating and gold color.
Do a search for "cadmium plating" and you'll find a lot of information.
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You are THEvexpert! Thanks for all the input!
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What about the manifold itself? Is that typically plated or just left as natural steel?
Sorry to bother you with this.
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What about the manifold itself? Is that typically plated or just left as natural steel?
Sorry to bother you with this.
Manifold and valve cover are natural finish. 3 valve cover bolts are plated
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Understood on the three valve cover bolts but I was referring to the mechanical fuel injector manifold. I believe that is also natural and it's just the lines that are plated. Correct?
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Understood on the three valve cover bolts but I was referring to the mechanical fuel injector manifold. I believe that is also natural and it's just the lines that are plated. Correct?
Manifold? Maybe the terminology is confusing. These lines attach to the FIP (fuel injection pump, not manifold) and the other end to the fuel injectors.
Here's a photo of the side of my engine after rebuild and restoration of all plating. The FIP is made of cast alloy and not plated.
I included both sides of the engine before reinstallation.
Yes, it's very, very pretty. Thank Metric Motors for their fine work, though the restorer probably installed the freshly plated lines.
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Sorry for the confusion. Yes I meant the FIP. I use the term manifold to describe something that breaks up and distributes, but you are correct, it's the FIP
Thanks for the pictures. Re-plating the lines makes a HUGE difference. A total wow factor. Your engine looks beyond great.
I'll keep you posted on my decision and outcome. Any idea on the cost of the plating? I did my front bumper and entire front grill assembly last winter and it was not cheap. This however, I would expect is a fraction of the work.
On a totally separate tangent, I started using non-ethanol racing fuel early this year. Talk about WOW. My engine runs soooo much better and so smooth. Not cheap but worth it.
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Cadmium and zinc plating is, compared to chrome, very inexpensive. However it’s best to do as much as you can, at once. So, get all the little bits together and have them done at once. Better still, get a friend to join you and share—
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How long does the (re-) plating hold up, generally?
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How long does the (re-) plating hold up, generally?
Unlike chrome, which is a decorative plating mostly, the zinc/cadmium platings are protective, and sacrificial. They start to degrade immediately and over time will eventually wear away while the underlying steel is untouched. If you were to examine my original "as plated" photos earlier in this thread, you'll note that the yellow-ish parts, (which were zinc plated, not cadmium, but with a phosphate wash) are a fairly bright gold. Today, that color has faded to a mostly gray, with just a hint of gold. That means the phosphate wash has mostly worn off and we're down to the zinc now.
As my car since restoration had not exactly led a difficult life--always garaged, no winter, no salt, little wet driving--the plating has lasted a long time. It was brighter 5 years ago, brighter still 10, etc.
If doing it again, I'd seek out cadmium. It lasts longer.
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Mike- I can't begin to thank you for all your insights! I live in Connecticut and will be putting my car in winter storage in the next month or so. My plan is to pull these parts and do the work over the winter.
I'll be sure to send photos of the finished product.
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...My plan is to pull these parts and do the work over the winter.
Photograph, catalog, and label. Photograph, catalog, and label. Photograph, catalog, and label. That's the mantra. You do NOT want to lose ANY parts, and you want to ensure you know EXACTLY where that part goes, and what it looks like in situ, and removed.
You can and should try to make some friends in the plating project. Several small parts on my car were either plated improperly, or got the gold phosphate wash when they were not supposed to, or vice versa. So, when one of my friends from this forum, Tom Rose, was having parts plated, I sent them to him...and they were added to his much larger "batch" of parts being cadmium plated.
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Do you have a inventory list of all the parts on the engine that per original specs should be cadmium plated? I don't need to go crazy here. I definitely am going to do the fuel lines and valve cover bolts along with the throttle linkage that cuts across the valve cover.
But since I'm at it, I thought I might as well do other "easily accessible" components. Make sense?
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Pengue -
You may be a little ahead of me in this process, but I may be interested in doing some component plating similar to what you're planning to do. I'm not too far away from you geographically. If there are some economies to be had by combining our batches I would be open to discussing it. Let me know if it's of interest and we can try to synch up.
Brian
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Combining batches? I would never offer to do that.
The results of your plating work will be dependent on the preparation work that goes in prior to sending to a plater. Inventory of parts and finding the company that can do the work at the level that provides satisfactory results will be another challenge. There are several ways parts can be plated. Batch plating is the fastest, easiest and cheapest way to go. What needs to happen before the parts go into the plating tank is where the time and energy gets spent. Rust removal, degreasing (don’t touch with bare hands after prepping) and addressing how to plate fuel lines without plugging the passages I are things the plater may or may not do for you. The plating part of the process is easy.
There are a few YouTube videos that show the process. One of the best I have seen is from Mikes Restorations where he explains the DIY plating process using the Caswell System on a 1967 911.
https://youtu.be/hTupOgImpWo
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Happy to join forces. I'll keep you posted on my progress. I just sent an email to Jim Cosgrove at Old Timer Restoration asking who he uses to do this type of work.
My plan is start storing my car the first week of December at a shop here in Fairfield, CT that can also remove and reinstall the parts.
My call is 203 561 9019 if you want to talk. Otherwise lets wait to here back from Jim.
Dan Pengue
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I used to work in a plating shop way back in high school and once the parts go into the tank all the metal gets electro plated including the interior of the fuel lines. Is this OK? Given the interior of the lines would be ever so slightly reduced, could this have an effect on the fuel delivery?
Sorry to be so anal!
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I would recommend capping/plugging the injection lines before plating. People have posted here that have had problems because they didn’t.
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I would recommend capping/plugging the injection lines before plating. People have posted here that have had problems because they didn’t.
I've had a lot of stuff plated in zinc chromate and I've never had a problem with injection lines. I blow compressed air through them before they leave to make sure they're clear. Some are half plugged with rust or dirt and that's where your problems will start. I asked the plater to blow through them when the plating was done and they come back just fine. He wires every screw, nut, and washer on a long piece of copper wire and everything gets plated.
Prep is important to get good results. We blast everything clean and then each piece is buffed on a wire wheel. The better the part and the smoother it is, the better it will look.
I did cadmium for a while. The quality was good and the color was consistent but looks too dark now and almost like it was painted. No shiny hues or silvery appearance. And it was about five time more than zinc chromate.
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Combining batches? I would never offer to do that.
...DIY plating process using the Caswell System on a 1967 911.
https://youtu.be/hTupOgImpWo
Well, there's combining batches, and combining batches. I've seen an entire car's worth of minutia, seemingly hundreds of bolts, nuts, washers, etc. for which cataloging such parts would be difficult for one car, let alone two. But, sometimes depending on what's being done, you can successfully combine and people can work together and save.
I did that twice. One time, the part to be plated was my automatic transmission filler tube; the original was damaged by a mechanic who didn't double wrench the fitting at the transmission. The OEM replacement from MBUSA was not plated as original, but painted black. The second set of items was the parts around the trunk (boot) lock/latch.
Friends working together to help each other.
Now, two cars worth of miscellaneous hard to categorize or separate bolts and nuts? No, too difficult to keep them separated.
All this plating involves really nasty chemicals. Putting it down the drain, on the street, in the woods, is a toxic and environmental no-no.
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What I read by combining batches is putting parts from 2 cars into one batch. There is a plating process (most economical) where they combine all the parts (nuts and bolts - not the long lines) into a basket. You basically pay for the basket of parts to be plated. It does not make much difference if there are 5 parts in there or 50. The more batches, the more you pay. I can’t speak for all platers, but if you bring in 2 batches you pay for 2. Will there be some savings from having 2 brought in at the same time? Perhaps. Just don’t mix up my parts with some one else’s.
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What I read by combining batches is putting parts from 2 cars into one batch. Just don’t mix up my parts with some one else’s.
In my case, Brad--twice--I saved by exactly that. My parts (though few in number and completely different than those in the larger batch) were indeed mixed in so that only one batch was done. If a batch consists of 15 pounds of fasteners and one set of injection lines, and a single set of hardware from a trunk latch, removing the latter was as easy as putting it in.
I also saved a friend some $$$ when I had my wheel covers painted. He had the same color (568 Signal Red) as mine, and theres a certain fixed cost to mix the paint and set up the paint booth. So it was not nearly twice the price to paint 8 wheel covers as it was 4. By splitting the total cost in half we saved a lot, rather than each having it done separately. Yes each wheel had to be masked, but my paint guys were pros. They totally dismissed the rubber mask thingy that floats around our group. They did not take long to do a superb masking job on all eight wheel covers, then paint them all at once.
One can do everything alone, or two or more can work together for mutual benefit. I choose the latter all the time.
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Plating perceptions in twinsburg Ohio charged me $400 for a batch of everything on my car for cadmium. Took them a long time to get
Them done though. However I believe they must be slow now as their primary customers are the aircraft industry. They have done several cars for our members.
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I am in the process of having this done for my restored 1970 280SL car with rebuilt engine.
Is there some complete picture somewhere of which brackets and bolts should be cadmium coated / phosphate washed too, in addition to the fuel lines?
Also, any recommendations of where to have this done in Los Angeles? I found a place in Burbank called
http://www.burbankplating.com/
I am looking into.
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There are lots of photos in the Tech Manual but you need to be a Full Member to access those areas for a mere $30 you can join us.. An alternative is to have a look through photos on the Motering Investments site to look as some of the cars they have had that are also very correct, you just need to know which ones they are😲
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Hi Michael, everyone,
Re the degradation of the sacrificial wash. Once it has faded over time, could it then be ' re washed ' to regain the gold appearance or can it only be done the once when new Thanks
Ray
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Ray, the plating can be repeated as many times as you like; it's just a lot of labour to disassemble and re-assemble everything.
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Ray,
I have had my fuel lines replated with out problems twice. They seem to be the things that go first. A lot of hot long distant hot drives will take the lustre off very quickly as i found out with a 16,000 km drive in the USA over four months in 2018.
Garry
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Hi Michael, everyone,
Re the degradation of the sacrificial wash. Once it has faded over time, could it then be ' re washed ' to regain the gold appearance or can it only be done the once when new Thanks
Ray
You MAY be able to rechromate (“wash”) a prior plated part, but I doubt it. Even if you did, it would be blotchy and probably unattractive. The prep work would be such that you would spend as much time as you would just getting it replated. The chromate sticks to the zinc (or CAD) surface and requires it to be dipped in a acid “pickle”. That is a diluted mixture and cleans the surface so that the chromate will stick.
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Because I plate things in my garage I have experimented with chromating parts that were previously plated etc and you are far better off just having the zinc redone. Every now and again I get lucky and am able to chromate some screws of fittings that arrived Zinc plated but usually I have to strip them and replate the zinc then chromate them.
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Best video I have seen on DIY plating
https://youtu.be/hTupOgImpWo
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Caswell is about the best and well known DIY plating supplier. Same thing I use.