Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Wanted To Buy => Topic started by: FastWgn on May 31, 2020, 10:38:31
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Hello all,
Like so many others on this website, I'm a car buff that enjoys moderate wrenching, and with a certain "fast wagon fetish". The latter is shared with my 15 year old son - he's now working with me on the '04 Volvo, as he wants that to be ready when he gets his license. Go figure, a teenage boy that wants a 6 speed Volvo wagon... ? :o
Only Mercedes to date is our current E63 wagon - it has mainly been BMWs, Audis and Volvos in our past.
My wife and I have had a weak spot for the Pagoda for a few years now, and are looking to find a good example as a true Sunday driver. We are looking for a solid and nice driver car, but no need for concours level preparation (don't want to be afraid of driving it!). Looking to enjoy it for next 10-15 years, and it's not an investment. Originality is nice, but not show stopper if there are parts and/or pieces that are not. Happy with restored cars, but more likely if done a few years back (or they will be outside our price range).
Price range $60-80k.
Based in Boston area and hence prefer a east coast car for now (hard to travel during Covid times), but more than willing to travel across country once things are back to normal to look and do PPI etc.
Not in any time crunch, but the car will be a Bday gift for my wife who has a birthday at end of August, so would be nice to have one at that time. But rather wait for the right car than buy a regret.
Feel free to PM me and we can take discussion outside of this forum.
Thank you in advance for any leads or hints!
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Hi,
Am not thinking of selling my Pagoda just yet but wanted to refer you to look at “Bring a Trailer” website. There have been a minimum of 4-6 fairly good pagodas offered within the last few months. One auction ended today, 6/2 of a good driver quality 4spd manual ‘70 280SL. It went for $73K + fees which would be in your price range. There are ample, very qualified commenters who will steer excellent questions through out the time window. Think your price range is reasonable and should snag a few options. Another option would be to look at Hemings who is located in a Vermont. I looked at their listings recently to find a half-dozen listings from New England. My advice to you is to look closely what interests you and get PPI assistance before you purchase. Best of luck in your hunt.
Hugh
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Hi,
Look in the " items for sale " section ...user HeyitsDerek (California) has just listed a 280 within your range . Good luck.
Regards
Pedro
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Hi,
Look in the " items for sale " section ...user HeyitsDerek (California) has just listed a 280 within your range . Good luck.
Regards
Pedro
Thank you - I did see that car. Looks like a solid driver and a good buy. Two minor concerns: The color may not be one of my wife's favorites (and she's pretty flexible), and the car is in CA, which for now is a bit challenging. Maybe to picky, I will learn fast.
Really appreciate the pointer, though.
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Hi,
Am not thinking of selling my Pagoda just yet but wanted to refer you to look at “Bring a Trailer” website. There have been a minimum of 4-6 fairly good pagodas offered within the last few months. One auction ended today, 6/2 of a good driver quality 4spd manual ‘70 280SL. It went for $73K + fees which would be in your price range. There are ample, very qualified commenters who will steer excellent questions through out the time window. Think your price range is reasonable and should snag a few options. Another option would be to look at Hemings who is located in a Vermont. I looked at their listings recently to find a half-dozen listings from New England. My advice to you is to look closely what interests you and get PPI assistance before you purchase. Best of luck in your hunt.
Hugh
Hugh,
Thank you. I have looked at BaT and not sure what to think of it any more. It's a GREAT website to waste an hour of your life every now and then. To buy a car there would be a bit iffier in my mind. Hard to do PPI, hard to see the car etc. Unless it happens to be local.
Did see the '70 one - looked pretty good, I agree.
Hemmings is one of the best websites for Pagonda for sale I have found. Not sure they are VT based though? Seems like listings are all over the country, maybe I'm missing something? I have seen a few of the ones in NE you are referring to and they all have some issues. But I look at that site at least once a day.... ;)
Agree 100% on PPI! Not only should you always do that for all used car purchases, but for a classic like this it's even more imperative.
Happy to hear you think my range is reasonable - I look forward to joining the community. Seems like a lot of very helpful and nice people here.
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Good luck with your search. FYI, Hemmings is located and Vermont, where they publish their automotive monthly magazine and operate their website. They do not own or consign the cars that they list for sale.
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Good luck with your search. FYI, Hemmings is located and Vermont, where they publish their automotive monthly magazine and operate their website. They do not own or consign the cars that they list for sale.
Thank you - that makes sense and appreciate the clarification.
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Try not to confine your search to a 280SL: there are many excellent choices among 230 & 250SL's. Performance is similar, particularly with 4spd (stick). Most important to look out for rust. Use this site to learn what to look for. Plenty of lipsticked pigs out there!
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Totally agree with Jon, don’t limit your selection if there is not a personal reason for a 280sl. I think that the 230 and early 250’s have become the far better buys now and into the long term as the 280sl has started to get excessively high prices.
Garry
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Added bonus to an earlier SL, no head rests, which I think is a cleaner look.
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FastWgn,
Sent you a pm...
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FastWgn,
Sent you a pm...
Than you - replied - look forward to connecting.
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Try not to confine your search to a 280SL: there are many excellent choices among 230 & 250SL's. Performance is similar, particularly with 4spd (stick). Most important to look out for rust. Use this site to learn what to look for. Plenty of lipsticked pigs out there!
Jon,
Thank you. I understand. It's one of those things I guess. I'd prefer the slight amount of increased torque, and the "top of the range" image. For now.
That said - the price curve is a bit "interesting" and based on that I'm probably open to looking at nice 230 and 250 as well (my $ will get a nicer car - I think?). Maybe one of those things - you start with a narrow grouping and then you expand over time.
And I hear you in the lipstick pig comment - just after looking at a few videos, reading up a bit on this site as well as other materials, and being a bit "clear eyed" in looking at some of the ads I agree. Some cars you can see that the panel gaps are off, dashboards have been refinished poorly, some renovations left seats and other pieces looking saggy, etc.
Someone on this site made the comment that the majority of cars they looked at were no where near what the seller described. I believe that.
Again - I'm cool with imperfections, as long as people are open about it! Much rather buy a car from a person on this site than a random dealer with no maint paperwork that's for sure....
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Totally agree with Jon, don’t limit your selection if there is not a personal reason for a 280sl. I think that the 230 and early 250’s have become the far better buys now and into the long term as the 280sl has started to get excessively high prices.
Garry
Garry - as I mentioned in my other reply - the price/cost curve for 230/250 versus 280 is "interesting". Your statement makes a lot of sense.
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Added bonus to an earlier SL, no head rests, which I think is a cleaner look.
Very fair point. I actually have no real preference.
I like either setup.
Also like either US or Euro versions, even though I may very slightly prefer the "no side marker" approach. The bumper horns and front lights are nice looking either way to me.
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Good luck in your search.
I've always recommended a thorough in-person evaluation, and considering you've concluded that a number of Pagodas are in a condition less than as represented, this becomes exceedingly important. If you buy sight unseen, don't blame a prior owner, the onus is all on you. In a solid PPI, you or your agent will determine pretty quickly if the condition is as represented. There are two sides to every story. If you find a lot of misrepresentation right from the start, probably best to walk away. Be wary of "California Cars", there's far too many represented as such that may have retired there but started life somewhere else. There's 5,000 surfers in California and 50,000 that dress like them. There's far too many "California Cars" out there to justify the claims.
In addition to this forum, don't forget to check the mbca.org classifieds, both online and in The Star magazine. There's generally a few each month in your price range. If those are things you don't know, invest the $55 and join the club and partake in some activities to meet other Pagoda owners that are local in the Minuteman section.
Many auto manufacturers today don't build to a customer order, they build to a dealer order. So it is sometimes hard, even on a new car, to get exactly what you want in the color you want. In the older cars, this is exacerbated; just the color palette and combinations on this W113 series is astounding compared to modern cars today, the bulk of which are black, white and silver and maybe a variation of silver like gray.
Form your own opinion, and if you can drive a couple of them. They all feel wildly different! Remember also that ~50% came with automatics to the USA. Some eschew the automatics and only want a manual. Some pine for the ZF 5 speed. I've driven the latter and came away wholly unimpressed. My own impression was "give me my automatic!" But that's just me. You want a sports car? Buy a Porsche. Want a real affordable sports car? Try an MG, or a Triumph. The Pagoda is not a sports car but a touring car with roadster body and two seats.
Spend the time to learn what the maintenance and repair costs are and can be. An engine rebuild from Metric is about $10K, and of course you have to take the engine out and reinstall it. FI pump rebuilds are well over $1,000 these days. Some trim pieces are hard to find, so familiarize yourself with what a complete car looks like. Seek out the other members in MA and New England (there are a number of them) and go see their cars. Pay a visit to Gernold at SL Tech in Maine, and buy him lunch or dinner! Before you go, look up Phil Morgan (member here) in southern Maine and see if you can pay a visit to him. He's very knowledgable on these cars but stays quiet of the forums.
You indicated that you don't mind a car that needs something as long as it's disclosed. Not every car in the hands of our members here is running flawlessly but damn we're all trying to get to that goal as time and $$$ allow.
Buy the absolute best you can for your budget; and remember the old adage, there's nothing more costly than a cheap Mercedes...
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Hello Fastwgn, always had a soft spot for the E63 wagon, had a 2005 E500 wagon that I loved.
Re a 280SL, my best advise is to look, learn and dig deep. I must have looked at 20 before finding one here on the east cost.
There are lots with shinny paint jobs claiming to be restored cars, drive a couple and the good ones will speak to you.
You may want to take a close look at the ones at Hatch and Son ( in your neck of the woods ) to get a good overview at to what a good clean original is all about, they have had this car for sale for almost 2 years now ( who knows ).
https://www.hatchandsons.com/inventory/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-silver-hm17/
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Hello Fastwgn, always had a soft spot for the E63 wagon, had a 2005 E500 wagon that I loved.
Re a 280SL, my best advise is to look, learn and dig deep. I must have looked at 20 before finding one here on the east cost.
There are lots with shinny paint jobs claiming to be restored cars, drive a couple and the good ones will speak to you.
You may want to take a close look at the ones at Hatch and Son ( in your neck of the woods ) to get a good overview at to what a good clean original is all about, they have had this car for sale for almost 2 years now ( who knows ).
https://www.hatchandsons.com/inventory/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-silver-hm17/
Thanks for the pointer - we actually stopped by their showroom once last year and saw the other two they have for sale (both are $200k+) but missed this one.
We also recently stopped by again - as in three weeks ago - and they are still beautiful!
Like you say - may be worth asking them....
Carl
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I've always recommended a thorough in-person evaluation, and considering you've concluded that a number of Pagodas are in a condition less than as represented, this becomes exceedingly important. If you buy sight unseen, don't blame a prior owner, the onus is all on you. In a solid PPI, you or your agent will determine pretty quickly if the condition is as represented. There are two sides to every story. If you find a lot of misrepresentation right from the start, probably best to walk away. Be wary of "California Cars", there's far too many represented as such that may have retired there but started life somewhere else. There's 5,000 surfers in California and 50,000 that dress like them. There's far too many "California Cars" out there to justify the claims.
In addition to this forum, don't forget to check the mbca.org classifieds, both online and in The Star magazine. There's generally a few each month in your price range. If those are things you don't know, invest the $55 and join the club and partake in some activities to meet other Pagoda owners that are local in the Minuteman section.
First - thank you for a long and well thought out answer- appreciated!
Yes on California cars. It magical....
On MBCA - yup I do check them as well. And yes, I'm a member. As well as a BMWCCA and Volvo club member. I'm a bit geeky like that.....
Many auto manufacturers today don't build to a customer order, they build to a dealer order. So it is sometimes hard, even on a new car, to get exactly what you want in the color you want. In the older cars, this is exacerbated; just the color palette and combinations on this W113 series is astounding compared to modern cars today, the bulk of which are black, white and silver and maybe a variation of silver like gray.
Form your own opinion, and if you can drive a couple of them. They all feel wildly different! Remember also that ~50% came with automatics to the USA. Some eschew the automatics and only want a manual. Some pine for the ZF 5 speed. I've driven the latter and came away wholly unimpressed. My own impression was "give me my automatic!" But that's just me. You want a sports car? Buy a Porsche. Want a real affordable sports car? Try an MG, or a Triumph. The Pagoda is not a sports car but a touring car with roadster body and two seats.
Agreed. Looking for a nice Sunday drive cruiser.
Spend the time to learn what the maintenance and repair costs are and can be. An engine rebuild from Metric is about $10K, and of course you have to take the engine out and reinstall it. FI pump rebuilds are well over $1,000 these days. Some trim pieces are hard to find, so familiarize yourself with what a complete car looks like. Seek out the other members in MA and New England (there are a number of them) and go see their cars. Pay a visit to Gernold at SL Tech in Maine, and buy him lunch or dinner! Before you go, look up Phil Morgan (member here) in southern Maine and see if you can pay a visit to him. He's very knowledgable on these cars but stays quiet of the forums.
That is excellent advice - thank you!
Have found a couple of local owners. Have not been (or heard about) SL Tech yet. Will check it out.
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automatic or stick shift?
AC or no AC?
Color combo?
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Another member has just put up for sale what looks like a very well sorted 1970 280sl for sale in your budget.
Garry
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automatic or stick shift?
AC or no AC?
Color combo?
All very good questions, and I have on purpose been a little bit vague on this to not dissuade people too much.
Automatic or stick? Either or. We have 50/50 auto and stick today and we are OK with either for this car. The mechanical satisfaction of shifting gives a more engaging drive, but then this is an excellent enjoyable drive tourer, so auto is fine as well.
AC? Nice feature - definitely not a requirement. We live in Boston area - very few days you really need it in a convertible and this will not be a commuter car.
Color combo? Same thing - there are so many beautiful colors and some that are very "time typical", which is OK as well. Maybe one exception, a bit of a struggle on the baby blue (light blue and horizon blue). Interior? Everything goes. Depending on exterior color maybe brown/blue beats black. Red can be beautiful in the right combo.
So really, pretty open for the right car.
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Another member has just put up for sale what looks like a very well sorted 1970 280sl for sale in your budget.
Garry
Garry,
Thank you - I had found Chris through another channel and just starting talking to him. Agree it's a nice one.
Thank you for the hint!
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Hello Fastwgn, always had a soft spot for the E63 wagon, had a 2005 E500 wagon that I loved.
Re a 280SL, my best advise is to look, learn and dig deep. I must have looked at 20 before finding one here on the east cost.
There are lots with shinny paint jobs claiming to be restored cars, drive a couple and the good ones will speak to you.
You may want to take a close look at the ones at Hatch and Son ( in your neck of the woods ) to get a good overview at to what a good clean original is all about, they have had this car for sale for almost 2 years now ( who knows ).
https://www.hatchandsons.com/inventory/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-silver-hm17/
As a PSA for other interested buyers, this car is listed at $125k, and the owner is keeping it over the summer, so no looking before labor day.
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are you looking for convertible or hardtop?
alvan
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are you looking for convertible or hardtop?
alvan
Alvan,
Not sure I fully understand your question? Didn't know the SL113 came as a hardtop?
We are focused on the "normal" convertible with the separate hardtop.
I am aware of the California option which is not really an option living in the Northeast US. It can actually rain up here and since the car is for my wife and I there is no need for a small back seat.
Please excuse my ignorance if I misunderstood your question.
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Have you found your 280SL yet? I am thinking of selling my 1969. Second owner. Very nice car. Light ivory over chocolate interior and dark brown hardtop.
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Is this in Australia? ;D
I turned is 180 degrees to make it easier to see.
(https://www.mupload.nl/img/7g77j3lgsjdv.jpg)
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Very pretty car! (I'll PM you directly)
Search is still ongoing, even though we have a few (really a couple) of really nice ones in the hunt right now.
This week and last has been less than ideal fro the search, the work thing getting in the way.
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He may have been demonstrating the very rare "anti-gravity" option...
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This site is amazing - keep on getting high quality leads. Appreciate everybody's help and assistance.
The search continues but with a bit of luck we are narrowing down the search. Due to family circumstances I found myself in Scandinavia on short notice, which makes it a bit more challenging.
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Brief update - looks like our search is over. Full Details to follow in the "member intro" section over the next week or so.
I really appreciate all that reached out and shared information and leads - highly appreciated and clearly this site has a lot of great knowledge as well as very friendly people.
Happy to be part of the community!
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Hi I do have a very nice 280sl that I could be tempted to sell. give me your email address and I can shot you some photo's
sorry I always have problems with the pm stuff
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Hi I do have a very nice 280sl that I could be tempted to sell. give me your email address and I can shot you some photo's
Jim collins ( j.collins60@comcas.net)
sorry I always have problems with the pm stuff
Jim,
Thank you for your note - we are actually already a happy owner of a car as of this week.
You may want to remove your email from your post here since otherwise Google and other search engines will find it a then sell it to people that generate spam.....
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The car has arrived, please see my post over in the new member introduction section:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=529.msg228281#msg228281 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=529.msg228281#msg228281)
Thanks to all that were very helpful in the search!
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are you still looking for a pagoda ?
JN
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Nope - we are now happy owners. See post right above with link to new member intro:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=529.msg228281#msg228281 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=529.msg228281#msg228281)
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Fast wgn, Just sent you Pm, sorry had to rush away,but think you got
most about the Car,,i wanted to follow on ,to say the seller is German, and very reliable,
and has been selling Porsche 911 there for years now.
If you dont want to any further with it, perhaps let others know here on
forum , as im not good at pasting from another source.
I have no association with him, but have known his reputation for years
when i lived CA,and came with in $1000, buying a Porsche 911 from him
about 5 years ago. regards.
SORRY I JUMPED THE GUN, NICE LOOKING EXAMPLE ,HOPE YOU ENJOY, REGARDS wayne.
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I searched a lot for this 280SL. I've been hunting it since 2019. But, it was very hard for me to find this model in very good condition and at a very accessible price. My grandfather had this car, so I also wanted to have it. I was 10 years old when I fell in love with this car. Recently, I was searching also for a new jeep (https://www.stanmcnabbcdj.com/new-cars-tullahoma-tn.html). On this platform, I found this rare 280SL in very good condition. I bought it instantly because a lot of people are hunting such rare cars. I was the happiest man in the world.
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I have a very nice 1970 280SL very clean no rust, runs great, white w/euro lights blue interior, looking for 82K usd, Im in Montreal