Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Shvegel on August 25, 2019, 20:45:34
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Can someone with a 70-71 Automatic take a picture of the Neutral safety switch and post it here. The switch is on the firewall between the cylinder head and the brake master cylinder on the driver's side. I am trying to see if the fitting on the cable attached to the switch is the older closed brown plastic one or the open black plastic one.
Thanks in advance,
Pat
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Hi,
mine looks like the open black plastic one (German spec, Automatic, Jan. 1971).
...WRe
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WRe,
Thanks for the picture. Unfortunately my request wasn't clear. I am looking for a picture of the mechanical cable where it attaches to arm on
the switch. Maybe 20mm to the right of your photo.
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Here you go, Pat. As you know, my engine compartment is open and partially disassembled. You are welcome to check things out in person any time..
Mine is a German spec car too, but these details may be the same.
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Thanks Mike! Does this mean the cover is off and you are going back together? I had taken a picture of your switch when I was there but I am wondering if that is the correct style? Your's is the only one like that I have seen. The end is still available from Mercedes for $95 (Ouch) but there are no pictures of the current offering. I hat to order it to find out it is some oddball thing that doesn't look right.
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Yes, Pat, the cover is off, but I am still far from going back together. I am still working on my cylinder head, debating which one to use. My original one or a spare I got from Kurt. Both have issues.
I am not sure if the switch arrangement is original, but I don't think anyone ever worked on that. What looks different? Maybe the German spec part WAS different. Let me check if I have any pics from other cars.
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Here is a shot of the switch in my 1970 280 SL (late September 1969 build)
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It seems that most of the ones I see have the standard ball-joint connection as in Jonny B's pic.
Even a drawing in the BBB showing the switch has this. If it is a late model change, I wonder when it happened. My car is December 1970.
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Shvegel,
You are talking about the part that is at the end of the cable which captures the ball on the switch arm, correct?
If so, mine looks exactly as Jonny B's looks. Not like the one on MikeSimon's car.
My previous Pagoda had the same part too.
Both of these were 1970 USA cars built in August of '69. Both cars matched Jonny B's car.
I hope that helps.
Mark
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hi,
Sorry, my fault!
Mine is the open plastic version.
...WRe
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Thanks Jon,
I am fairly certain that is the correct one. Since my car is close to 71 production I wasn't sure if the one Mike has may be the latest but I haven't seen another like his.
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WRe,
The plot thickens. I sort of remember the open one on my car too. As my restoration progresses I am seeing the the late 280's (Mine is May 1970) are more aligned with the 71's that the early 70's with the exception of the plastic coolant tank. The differences are subtle but they are carried right through to the end of production. So far I "think" the differences are the 100 degree switch on the thermostat housing is a larger round shape, The small fusebox rearward of the brake booster is in line with the firewall rather than across and the fitting on the neutral safety switch cable is different.
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I would assume, if it is still available from Mercedes, it is the latest version and if it is $95.-, it is probably plastic... ;D ;D
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Crazy money. I just ordered one of these without knowing size etc. I figure if it is wrong it might at least have a logo on it.
https://www.boats.net/product/mercury/853745
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Thanks everyone for chiming in. It is always fun hunting down this stuff. The deeper I get in the more I see little changes that occur mid year that can drive you crazy.
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Not sure if useful: march 1970, euro, black plastic.
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Hi,
MB part no. A1273000086, no longer available, last price 57,18€.
I found one here: https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&description=A1273000086 for 85,50$.
Crazy!
...WRe
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If all else fails I will order one from Mercedes. 2 things are stopping me right now. Not knowing if the new part is the same as the old part so I don't end up with some neon blue one I can't return and not wanting to be complicit in Mercedes treating me like I am an idiot for selling me what is certainly a sub $1 USD part for $85.
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Hi,
I'am wondering if you can use ball sockets from Fuel Injection Linkage too. Compared to the original ones these are cheap: https://www.sls-hh-shop.de/main/en/mercedes-230-280sl-w113-30-acc-linkage-c-3_66.
...WRe
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The ball socket on my 9/69 built car looks same as one in Johnny B´s photo. The material is steel no plastic.
Matti
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Thanks Matti!
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Well, I got lucky. It turns out the Mercury part was a direct match. $85 from Mercedes and $5 from Mercury marine. A little time on the lathe and I have the adjuster as well.
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Hi,
MB part no. A1273000086, no longer available, last price 57,18€.
I found one here: https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/PEL_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&description=A1273000086 for 85,50$.
Crazy!
...WRe
Hi Wolfgang and Pat,
I am puzzled about this part number. All the vendors that sell it refer to it as a "ball socket"
https://www.mboemparts.com/oem-parts/mercedes-benz-ball-socket-throttle-1273000086
or Kugelpfanne:
https://originalteile.mercedes-benz.de/kugelpfanne-135100
The spare parts list for the 280SL shows only ball sockets with a p/n 000 991 08 22.
If you click on "27" on the SLS graphic:
https://www.sls-hh-shop.de/main/en/27-automatic-gearbox-27-b-automatic-linkage-and-connecting-parts-c-3_2333_64
it shows it as a metal ball socket.
Was this open plastic connector that you have perhaps an aftermarket item?
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From what we can see there was a small run of cars equipped with the plastic socket in the late 70 to early 71 range.
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How small is small, three cars? ;)
All of the late 280SL at Motoringinvestments that I have seen had the metal ball socket.
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Hi,
I'am wondering if you can use ball sockets from Fuel Injection Linkage too. Compared to the original ones these are cheap: https://www.sls-hh-shop.de/main/en/mercedes-230-280sl-w113-30-acc-linkage-c-3_66.
...WRe
Same part.
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Hi Alfred,
I think that everything is possible: plastic or metal sockets.
On one side our cars are nearly 50 years old, who knows in detail what happened during this time. On the other side I don't believe that part lists or manuals are always correct.
Stan (Flyair) from Poland has a very late US automatic and very original car, how does it look in his car?
... Wolfgang
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I have a late FEB/1971 build 71 Pagoda. It is currently stored at my friend's garage across town. I will go take a look and take a picture. I know my car is original.
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How small is small, three cars? ;)
All of the late 280SL at Motoringinvestments that I have seen had the metal ball socket.
What is "late"? A lot of owners/sellers call any 69/70 "late". My 280SL is December 1970 and has the plastic part. Original stock.
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66andblue,
Maybe 4? I don't remember if this is a brochure or not but new nonetheless. You will probably have to download it and blow it up to see it. The other giveaway is the adjuster is actually in middle range rather than on it's last thread like the long steel socket ones. The other thing that is interesting here is the wing nut on the power steering reservoir and the battery hold down bolt are clear cad and not yellow. JonnyB and I had discussed this last week and I had not seen it anywhere before.
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Mike,
I don't think there is an official definition but for me I would call late the /8 engine cars. Identifiable by the small oil fill cap. there are still some tiny differences in that run but they are at least to me in the same "Class".
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66andblue,
Maybe 4? I don't remember if this is a brochure or not but new nonetheless. You will probably have to download it and blow it up to see it. The other giveaway is the adjuster is actually in middle range rather than on it's last thread like the long steel socket ones. The other thing that is interesting here is the wing nut on the power steering reservoir is clear cad and not yellow. JonnyB and I had discussed this last week and I had not seen it anywhere before.
This is a photo from Pete Lesler that Mike Salemi posted here:
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=25119.0
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66andblue,
Thank you for sourcing that. I knew I had seen it here but had forgotten where.
I sometimes question why we chase these tiny details or at least why I do. I guess for me it is actually a twofold answer. I work on a ship and am away from home every other month and not having a garage or "Honey do" list or even a lawn to mow leaves me with almost too much free time. Doing stuff like this keeps my mind busy and I think it is a good way for us to start a reference library where someone who is restoring a car or even a small part of a car can come and see what it is supposed to look like. It really doesn't cost much more to use correct finishes and parts and do doing so we increase the value of our cars rather than spend time and money to make something that is worth less than when we started.
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Mike,
I don't think there is an official definition but for me I would call late the /8 engine cars. Identifiable by the small oil fill cap. there are still some tiny differences in that run but they are at least to me in the same "Class".
I am confused. I thought all 280SLs were /8s
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... but for me I would call late the /8 engine cars. Identifiable by the small oil fill cap. ...
The /8 or in German Strich8 moniker never referred to an engine model but to the 1968 manufacturing date.
When Mercedes introduced the W114/115 models in 1968 they became popularly known as Strich8 and the company used the phrase for a few years but then abandoned it. However, it still lives on mostly because of the nice information that several clubs devoted to these models provide, for example: https://www.strichachtclub.de/ and https://www.w114w115club.nl/
In my view it is somewhat unfortunate that the 280SL was sometimes lumped into the /8 group - even in Mercedes brochures - only because it was also introduced in 1968.
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Alfred,
You are correct. I always thought the /8 referred to the upgrade that happened at the introduction of the lower emission engines. I was mistaken.
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280SL/8!
...WRe
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Hi Pat,
Attached is a picture of my engine.
Should you enlarge it, you will be able to see the switch you are looking.
Mine is a US spec from 10/1970.
Cheers
Francisco
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Well, it's a metal ball socket. There were only 40 more cars built after mine which was produced in Feb/71.
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Thanks Sam!
I almost hate to say this because it might mean me spending $95 on a $2 part but I am sensing a pattern. every Euro spec car has the plastic end and every US spec car has the metal end.
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You may be on the right track, Pat. Although I am pretty sure that the plastic ball joint connector in my car, 1970SL, Euro spec, 22774, Dec 1970 is original equipment, I checked all the documents I have for pictures. Sure enough, even the Haynes manual shows BOTH versions. The metal connector on page 83 in the Emission Control section and the plastic connector version on page 127 in the Transmission section.
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Hi Pat,
Attached is a picture of my engine.
Should you enlarge it, you will be able to see the switch you are looking.
Mine is a US spec from 10/1970.
Cheers
Francisco
I see something I've never seen before. The electrical cable or line going to the 100C switch passes through the bracket that holds all of the injection lines but this one has a rubber grommet of some sort around it. Did someone add that or is that factory?
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Dan, I saw the same thing. I looked through my reference photos and found this picture from a Goodings auction a few years ago of an 8,600 mile 1971 US Spec car. No grommet. I find it a really interesting challenge to figure out what is truly original. Not only is there so many production changes in any given model year there are quite a few well restored cars with only a couple things that are out of place or worse yet cars that are marketed as low mileage original cars that have undergone some form of refurbishment before pictures were taken. Even the much heralded "Holy Grail" has things that were changed during refurbishment that are not correct. Luckily they posted some before pictures along with the refurbished photos so we can spot them.
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Here is a perfect example of what I am talking about. This is a car marketed by the US Classic Center a few years ago. Very low miles, US Spec and A build somewhere late 1969 or very early 1970(radio fuse box behind brake booster still on an auxiliary bracket). A really nice looking car but in the refurbishment the Classic center did a few things that are not original. Hose clamps they get a pass on as anything Mercedes supplies is considered "Correct" for MBCA judging but there are still a few other details that are not correct. They have added the rubber plugs in the inner fenders where there were none, They used an incorrect 100 degree switch(Again a pass if sourced through MB), The distributor cover is missing, they have added a coil cover that was never there, The oil filler cap is yelllow zinc as opposed to clear zinc(type 1 or clear passivation) and the ignition coil is the wrong color. When cars like these creep into our notice the details that are wrong become normalized into even the finest restoration shops.
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.../...When Mercedes introduced the W114/115 models in 1968 they became popularly known as Strich8 and the company used the phrase for a few years but then abandoned it.../...
Some further info on this matter
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I see something I've never seen before. The electrical cable or line going to the 100C switch passes through the bracket that holds all of the injection lines but this one has a rubber grommet of some sort around it. Did someone add that or is that factory?
Hi,
To be honest I don’t known if the car was previously like this (with the wire going trough the injection brackets) or if it is a result of some creative mechanic.
I will check on previous pictures and will let you know.
Cheers
Francisco
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Hi,
To be honest I don’t known if the car was previously like this (with the wire going trough the injection brackets) or if it is a result of some creative mechanic.
I will check on previous pictures and will let you know.
Cheers
Francisco
Hi,
Previous pictures (after a Classic Center job) show the wire in the very same place.
Cheers
Francisco
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Thanks for looking Francisco.