Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: ja17 on March 04, 2019, 16:55:35
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For our interest and information, please tell us how many miles or kilometers are on your pagoda engine and what major repairs or rebuild were needed? Also please tell if the maintenance over the years was good, poor, mixed or unknown. You might also mention if the repairs were preventative or needed.
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1966 230SL. When I bought it there were 56298 miles and the car had sat since the 1980s I currently have over 68000 miles. The engine has an oil leak at the front crank seal that needs replaced but the car runs great. No major engine repairs were done since the car still had original hose clamps I would assume the engine has not been removed from the car. I adjusted the valves and that is about all it needed. Maintenance history is unknown.
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Also a 1966 230SL.
130,000 miles with regular and well documented maintenance.
No major engine repairs.
Car runs really well. Tick, tick...
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1970(71) 280SL. Total 165,000 km. Lost con-rod bearing at 155,000 due to water in oil. Partial rebuild. Found out later that pistons are oversized too. No record of that work that was performed by a PO. Rebuilding head right now. Ball studs worn.
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I have a 1968 280SL Bought the car in 1972 with 100000Km on it.
At present it has 172000Km. From 1972 on the oil and filter was changed yearly.
The power steering, transmission oil/filter, differential oil, brake fluid and antifreeze changed every 4 years.
Replaced the fan clutch, rad hoses in 1976.
Lets hope by writing this I did not jinks it.
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67,027 Miles driven by first and Second owner 1969 To 1992)
04,400 Miles driven by third (Lady owner 1992 to 2013)
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71,427 Miles driven prior to my purchase
14,127 Miles driven since my purchase in May 2013
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85,554 total miles to date
Miles driven per year 1,711 (1969 2019)
Miles driven by first and second owner per year 3,046 (Dec. 1968 to 1992) approx 25 years
Miles driven by third owner per year 210 (1992 to 2013) approx. 21 years
Miles driven by yours truly per year 2,825 (2013 to 2019) approx 5 years
Engine repairs prior to my purchase in 2013 are not known other then 2 injectors were replaced with new ones.
After my purchase the only repairs I had were a) replace clutch fan and b) radiator repair other then that just normal fluid and filter changes at regular intervals as recommended by the OEM.
My car appears to be an excellent driver having made the trip to the 50s Anniversary celebrations in Virginia in 2013, PUB Ohio two times (2013, 2015), PUB Virginia once in 2017. Along with other fine memorable trips within Ontario, Canada, New York State, Michigan and Ohio State. I am still on the fence if or if not I should fly, take the Pagoda or my DD to PagodaFest in 2019, I guess the coming months will help me make up my mind on that one :)
Dieter
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My 280 SL has about 145,000 miles. The major repair was a head rebuild at about 140,000 - new valve seals, valves replaced, rocker arms. Also had the injection pump gone through. Recored the radiator and new fan clutch around 138,000. Care by a certain person who started this thread for quite some while.
Last eight years - by Silver Star in Escondido CA.
Does not use a bit of oil, and the oil stays pretty clean.
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Hi Jon,
Yes, I suspect your engine will go at least 200K before needing any other major repairs. Good maintenance seems to be the secret.
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250SL 1967 with 84,000 km. The car was delivered in Amsterdam then shipped to Anchorage Alaska in mid 1970's where the block was freeze damaged and replaced by by an overhauled SE motor. I believe it has about 13,000 km on the replacement motor between 1975 and now. It was always garaged since coming to the US. When I purchased the car it had a leaking front main seal and lots of leaks around the pan. I replaced the main seal and tightened the pan bolts and now have no leaks. The prior US owner had driven the car less than 1000 km in the past 15 years according to service records. With proper tune and sorting out some cold start issues the car has lots of power and drives as I would expect from a MB product.
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Mike,
I still have 70,000 mile ball studs that you an have.
John K
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Thank you John. I got a great deal on brand new ones. I had previously acquired 5 on ebay and then got the remaining 7 from a vendor for $24.99/pc (who it was eludes me right now)
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Of course, care, including oil changes is important. Also, how the car is driven and how fast it is driven is an issue. I find that the engines installed in the w113 often give trouble in the 90,000 to 98,000-mile range. The same model engine installed in a sedan will generally go 150,000 to 180,000 miles. I believe the issue is that many of the w113's, especially the later ones, are geared such that at 70 or 75mph, the engine is revving beyond what it was really designed to do and this is directly related to a longevity difference between the sedan and the W113.
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I know of many W113 cars which were well serviced and competed for years in Club track events with over 120K miles and still going strong. I think regular use, and good maintenance are the deciding factors. I always suggest changing your oil in the fall before storage. In this way your car is at rest with clean oil. Old dirty oil will
contain water, and a lot of corrosive deposits from combustion. Do not allow this to percolate in your engine during a long winter storage. In addition dirt particles in dirty oil will settle to the bottom of your oil pan during the storage and form sludge.
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Its purely anecdotal but I was told by the dealer when we got the car that it had its engine replaced with a replacement engine in the early 80's at approx 60,000 miles (excessive oil consumption). The car was then driven approx. 20,000 miles and then parked for 25+ yrs. I now have 86,000 miles on the car and do more playing with the car than driving so it should last me a while.
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My 250s with engine similar to pagoda's I replaced short block with factory block and rebuild head at @ 100K miles. I kept the original block and am currently rebuilding it and the head again after hitting 200K total on the car. My dad bought the car new and I have owned for the 2nd 100K, so maintenance history is known.
The bearing on the 2nd block are all still standard size, but both blocks the cylinder bore is worn substantially.
I would say the weak point is the metallurgy of the block itself as that is what seems to wear out first.
On the head the ball studs were horribly worn as were the rockers and even the spring top inserts at 200K total. The valves were not all that bad at all. 2 valves were replaced this time and the seats reground.
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One of these old MB engines can go 150,000 miles but I wouldn't count on that to happen. I'd say it's a matter of maintenance more than any other factor.
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Hei. 230SL with 119.000 miles, approx 200.000km. First unopened engine. Runs well, oil consumption is about 1 liter per 100km. But it smokes slightly. I am preparing for an oberhaul.. Compression on all six cylinders is 8,5 Bar (124psi). Martin
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Of course, care, including oil changes is important. Also, how the car is driven and how fast it is driven is an issue. I find that the engines installed in the w113 often give trouble in the 90,000 to 98,000-mile range. The same model engine installed in a sedan will generally go 150,000 to 180,000 miles. I believe the issue is that many of the w113's, especially the later ones, are geared such that at 70 or 75mph, the engine is revving beyond what it was really designed to do and this is directly related to a longevity difference between the sedan and the W113.
Yes, but the sedans of the same area had the same rear axles and same gearing. Maybe sedans were not usually driven as '' sporty. ''
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76348 total miles but the short block was replaced in '70 under warranty at 20241 miles (excessive oil consumption). No other repairs other than a couple of water pumps.
John
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Bit off topic but are there any opinions on the life of head gaskets for engines running at normal temperatures?
naj
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Hello Naj,
I have never seen any indications the head gasket would not last the life of the engine under normal circumstances. Occasionally you will see some that have developed some wetness on the spark plug side. Usually not bad enough to cause any real issues. New production head gaskets are improved and have added a red sealant strip along this side of the gasket. These engines do not use stretch type head bolts, so re-torqueing the head at intervals seems to keep everything nice and tight.
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It has not been uncommon for the late 280's to have an issue with head erosion at the sealing surface areas of the head gasket. This has caused leaking gaskets because of a lack of a sealing surface.
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Correct, not changing the coolant on time or overheating can cause erosion to begin after coolant begins leaking past the head gasket.
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1965 230SL
1978.04.28 142,000km I bought the car
1995.01.20 214,297km Engine rebuild (piston disintegrated)
2019.03.16 249,000km Today
There's obviously a lot of stuff that has been done to the car over the past 54 years and quarter million kms - I have a pretty thick file.
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It's not just the work done on your car but also who was working on it. At some point what we all had was just another used car that could of easily cost more to drive than it was worth. This is probably the most vulnerable time in a car's life. It's the point where a piece of tin is pop riveted into a hole in the frame and news papers are stuck under the seat to keep it from sinking down too much. The point where repairs were far more than the value of your car and there were so many repairs it no longer driven.
You never will know the skill level of anyone working on your car from 40 years ago unless you have complete records and you know who worked on it.
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Hi Joe. I'm the second owner of my 11304410011xxx. In 1979, the original owner replaced the short block with a rebuilt one at 128,639 miles. The car had been maintained by the dealer (MB of Hollywood), but an independent shop (L.A. area) replaced the short block and maintained the car thereafter. I bought the car in 1989 at ~177,000. I maintain it well and have had no engine issues. Current mileage, ~183,000 (yes, 6,000 miles in 30 years--for 20 of those the car was in a car museum and occasionally started, but rarely driven). It now lives in an air conditioned and heated garage, and I drive it about twice a month for ~100 miles per month. Runs great, no leaks or issues with burning oil, but needs a new fuel pump. CC has no suggestions. I'd appreciate your suggestions on a fuel pump. Thanks!
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Thanks for the interesting history. Sounds like a nice pampered car. It might be nice to rebuild the original fuel pump and keep it factory. One of our members in Chicago does an excellent job rebuilding the originals (big savings over new).
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I had sneaking suspicion when I bought my 1969 pagoda in 2016 with 40.000 miles only , but since the speedometer have only 5 digits it must be turning over to 140.000 miles . The engine, transmission, rear and front axle leaks oil from every wear then I decide to do complete nut to bolt restoration.
The car is in concourse level now .