Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Pawel66 on November 23, 2018, 16:40:47
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I know this is very silly and useless.
A friend of mine asked me to tell him month and year of manufacture of his 230SL. I figured January 1965. He joked back "ok, which day?".
I figured January 5 or 6 assuming fairly even daily output through the month.
And the doubt was: was January 2 a working Saturday in Germany in 1965?
If you happen to know if Saturdays were working days in Germany in the 60-es - please write. I do not suppose you would know about this particular Saturday, January 2, 1965.
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Hi Pawel,
since the sixties of last century people in Germany worked only 5 days a week. If there were no extra shifts I would assume that they didn't work on Saturdays during that time. Especially "between the years" (from Christmas to New Year) a lot of manufacturing plants where closed so this Sat., Jan. 2 1965 was presumably no working day.
...WRe
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Pawel,
you might also look up the model change dates in Engelen's book and the VIN could be listed there. I found the VIN of my 230SL in his book and thus know that it was built on Friday, May 15, 1964.
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Thank you both very much!
Engelen's book - where do I find it?
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Another questionable in there is January 6. In the southern catholic states like Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg (where Stuttgart is) January 6 is a Holiday. "Holy 3 Kings Day" (the day of the Magi). The plant may have been closed that day.
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.../...since the sixties of last century people in Germany worked only 5 days a week../...
I found a reference in Wiki, that the Workshop Industry in WestGermany introduced the 40-hour 5-day work week in 1967.
" begann der DGB dann eine Kampagne zur Einführung der Fünftagewoche .../... 1965 wurde die 40-Stunden-Woche in der Druckindustrie eingeführt. 1967 folgte die Metallindustrie.../..."
So, beginning of January 1967 - was it already implemented? I would think later in the year
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Engelen's book - where do I find it?
Used book on Amazon.de: https://www.amazon.de/Mercedes-Benz-190-SL-Barock-Pagode/dp/3613013673
or new from the publisher: https://www.motorbuch-versand.de/product_info.php/info/p8290_Mercedes-Benz-190-SL---280-SL.html
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=19911
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=26814.msg192308#msg192308
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Thank you everyone for your kind attention!
I will look for the book, thank you Alfred!
The critical point is this Saturday, January 2.
Assuming linear distribution of car production through the month:
If all the Saturdays were free - the calculation shows second working day in Jan, which is Jan 5.
If all the Saturdays were working, it would be the third working day in Jan, also Jan 5 (because this would be fewer cars produced per day).
If all the Saturdays were working, just Jan 2 was free - that would be third working day as above, but already Jan 6. If they had 3 Kings day - then January 7.
So the critical data points are: was Jan 2 free and did they have 3 Kings day free. This is fun!
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Hi,
the Engelen or modification list will not help you so much because the list ends Dec. 23, 1964 with VIN 8513 and starts again Jan. 15, 1965 with VIN 8750. If you look at the production statistics I would assume that the production plant was closed from Dec. 24, 1964 to Jan. 3, 1965 or even longer until Jan. 10 (plant vacation shutdown).
...WRe
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ok, so the funny thing is that my friend's VIN is 8514, which is the next car after the one described in the book.
However:
I based my information to my friend (January 65 production) and my below calculations on the statistic in Technical Manual that say that the last VIN in December 64 was 8498 and then the last VIN in January 9025.
How shall I understand Engelen saying VIN 8513 in December 23 and our statistics saying last VIN in December was 8498?
I wonder when this car could have been produced...
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Hi Pawel,
You are right there must be something wrong, either in the production list or in the modification list.
The Engelen modification list specifies only the modification that took place from a date and FIN on.
...WRe
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the statistic in Technical Manual that say that the last VIN in December 64 was 8498
Does that really say December 1964, or does it say 1964 model. Remember, the model year is not the same as the calendar year.
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I believe the statistics in our Technical Manual are about VINs produced by month.
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/USModelYear
Perhaps, simply, if the modification (in this case modification of steering) was installed from VIN 8513 and might have just been registered or installed on the line/assembly or subassembly on December 23 while the car was finished in January.
My friend will check the registration date of his car.
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Having worked in the automotive industry my whole life and been through my share of assembly plants, I want to wager a statement:
As Rome was not built in one day, so weren't/aren't cars.
Many components and modules are pre-assembled off-line or even in a different plant (e.g: engine) and then "married" to the chassis/frame on the final assembly line. Early in the process of making the chassis, a VIN-number is assigned which follows the product through the build process. When the finished car finally rolls off the line and AFTER it passes final inspection, a build date may be assigned. Some vehicles may be routed to a rework area and have qc issues addressed. The final "finished" date is almost impossible to determine. Why it may be an interesting item to add to the history of your car, I don't see why it would be something of any value or even worth the effort chasing it. I am fine, knowing the month of production of any vehicle I own that has some remote historic significance. I do have that.
To add to the "food for thought" basket in this thread: I know of several car assembly plants that do NOT have any "Holidays". During full production, they run 7 days a week, 3 shifts/day with individual workers still working only 5 days, 40 hours/week. If demand slows, number of shifts are being cut, if it slows more, number of days/week is being reduced. Sometimes it is more expensive and a real effort to shut down and restart an assembly line, rather than keeping it running. It is hard to say what Daimler did in 1964 or 65 unless you could look at some company archives.
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Mike,
Thank you for this piece of knowledge. It is always useful.
Not being an expert, I could imagine what you said about various components being pre-assembled and then put together and that i ttakes time, which brought me to the point about why date for VIN 8513 is not matching our manufacturing statistics. I think this would be quite important to understand.
Chasing a production date of a car was for fun. Completely useless otherwise.
But it brought a point that somehow Engelen data seems different than our Tech Manual statistics...
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UntilI I joined this forum I had always thought my car was built in June due to the date stamped on the power brake booster. Now I know it was actually built/assembled sometime in July of '68. Then it took another 2 months to get from Germany on a very slow boat to the port in Long Beach CA but the wait was well worth it :)
John
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Why it may be an interesting item to add to the history of your car, I don't see why it would be something of any value or even worth the effort chasing it. I am fine, knowing the month of production of any vehicle I own that has some remote historic significance. I do have that.
Mike,
I went through this estimating exercise with my 230SL. I estimate that it came off the line Oct 26th, 1965 and my wife was born Oct 29th 1965. It was worth the effort since it helped me sell the idea of the car as "It was meant to be, you both share the same birth week!" .
What ever it takes some times.
Mike
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I know, it is an exciting titbit to add to your personal data collection if you can narrow it down to the week or even the day of production. So much stuff is getting lost to history, because nobody really cares to preserve it. The more we can do, the better.
I remember, I bought a brand new 1996 Chevrolet Impala SS ( LT1 Corvette engine) and I had to wait for a delayed delivery. I was able to find out it rolled off the line the week of Memorial Day 1996, one of the very last ones produced. It was sort of special to me.
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It was worth the effort since it helped me sell the idea of the car as "It was meant to be, you both share the same birth week!" .
What ever it takes some times.
Mike
I take back what I said bout it being "completely useless"....
Would it be good or bad to find out your car was produced on Saturday January 2nd? How did Hans or Fritz feel that day?
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I take back what I said bout it being "completely useless"....
Would it be good or bad to find out your car was produced on Saturday January 2nd? How did Hans or Fritz feel that day?
It is "Hans and Franz", Pawel…. 8) ;D ;D
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Franz had a nick-name Fritz. It was given to him at VIN 8427. It is documented in the Daimler archives. ;) ;)