Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: James on October 22, 2018, 02:30:27
-
Hi all
This is s problem that we will all have to face
The power brake booster has an internal “Bakelite “ component that cracks with age and causes the power brake booster to leak. This affects the performance of the engine and the braking.
Does anybody know where to get a repair or a new brake booster .
I’ve tried many brake and MB spare parts suppliers to no avail.
This problem will affect all our Pagodas at some time
I would be grateful for your advice and assistance
James
-
Hi James , you could buy a new one.
Pdf is the one for a 280
-
.../...you could buy a new one...
Unfortunately, the units offered on the market today differ quite a lot from what was in our cars from factory.
See images attached, "late Type 4" is correct as from factory for later 280SL (no "notch" above brake master cylinder on this one)
Other image "T51 bromsservo 3" is the type offered today, looks very different to the original type fitted in the W113
-
These Bakelite components are only for RHD cars.
I am in the process of having some made but delivery is not imminent.
-
Excellent
Thank you for your information .No one else has known that
Do you know if the booster can presently be purchased new?
Is there something that can be done as a temporary replacement in the interim?
Any other suggestions
James
-
James, you could disconnect the brake booster and drive with manual brakes.
The 1/2 inch hose into the booster front gets disconnected and then you put a bolt or screw into the disconnected hose to seal it and preserve vacuum.
My mechanic did this to my 250 SL a few years back when my booster was leaking and it actually improved performance.
And the manual braking is fun and safe. You just have to stand on the brake pedal a bit.
jz
-
Thank you Zac
I will do that
At least I’ll be back on the road for the holidays
It’s been in his garage for 12 weeks while we looked for a replacement
I will still have to find a fix though
James
-
Hi again
Could you please give me the details of your contact who’s making the part and I can put in an order too
Thank you
James
-
James,
Do not do as Zak suggested, and as another member has pointed out to me, It is completely illegal and a highly dangerous thing to do disconnecting the brake booster then driving.
Garry
Membership Admin
-
Thank you Garry
Very important information
I wondered why the mechanic hadn’t done it
... the search for the replacement/ repair continues
James
-
...an additional question
Does anyone with technical expertise know if the RHD Ponton or RHD Fintail used the same brake booster?
They were made at the same time?
Any suggestions or comments?
James
-
James,
I have had my booster overhauled about a year ago. It was done by Joe at Classique Motors 0396905444 in South Melbourne. We had difficulty getting an overhaul kit but he did eventually find one. Maybe give him a call.
Garry
-
.../...Does anyone with technical expertise know if [another M-B].../... used the same brake booster?
The W108/109 and W111 cp / cab did use the T51, same as our W113 Pagoda
-
Thank you Garry but Joe is my mechanic now too and we are not having any luck
James
-
Thank you
That enables me to expand my search
Greatly appreciated!
James
-
Jeez, sorry Garry and James and all, if I advised something that is dangerous.
I did not think it was dangerous. I have heard that tip from a few mechanics and I have been driving my 250 SL with the brake booster disconnected as I described for over 5 years now with no problems at all.
I respectfully ask what exactly the danger is/may be ? I may be wrong (again), but weren't power assisted brakes an option on early 113s ?
jz
-
Or was I thinking of power steering as an option?
Sorry again,
jz
-
Power assisted brakes were standard on all W113, power steering was an option.
-
Zac
In Australia in all states, it would be illegal to modify the vehicle that way given that the brake system with booster is standard fit and would negate their insurance as well. For those reasons alone, there is a problem recommending that someone does an illegal modification.
Having said that, anyone turning off the vehicle whilst moving knows how hard it is to brake the vehicle and would realise that it is actually difficult to stop the car with out the engine running giving the boost. I am surprised that you have been driving that way for so long without having hit anything!! 😆
-
Thank you Zak... at least you are mobile! (I’m not!)
James
-
To all-
I would like to apologize for giving a short cut solution advice to solve a problem.
It works for me, but I am a risk taker. Have been all my life.
I do not want to subject the group to liability.
Sorry again,
jz
-
Zak,
Not a big deal. We need to just be a bit careful on providing info that may come back to bite both the Group and the individual given some nations fondness for litigation. ;) ;) ;D ;D
Garry
Membership Administrator
-
What I did for my brake booster and to stay mobile: I just bought the replacement one (that looks different than original, but fits) and put it in temporarily while my original booster was fixed. Then I could give the new temporary booster to the shop (with some loss on price, of course) or keep it for emergency. I kept it for emergency.
I know it is $$$$ (the replacement booster is about $400), if you manage to agree with the shop you may get back $200, but you are mobile.
-
Rock Auto sells one for around $100. If you send your old one back they give you a core payment.
There was a minor modificaiton that had to be done to the hole on one side of the push rood which is to make it bigger so the bolt fits through. other than that its an easy swap.
-
I have seen several different versions of Mercedes brake boosters used on these Pagoda's. They which seemed to work and fit fine. Any other experiences with alternatives?
-
Hi ja17,
Thank you for taking an interest in my problem.
I love your motor vehicle inventory !
A question .
Is the brake booster on your pagoda the same as the one on your fintail?
In any event what is the number of the unit on your fintail?
I'd always worked on the assumption that all the Mercedes produced in the same year shared the same mechanicals?
James
-
Hi James,
My fintail has the early remote booster which is entirely different. It seems that the original pagoda boosters have a notch out at the top rim of the booster directly above the master cylinder. This is the easiest way to identify it quickly. Also pay attention to the attachment of the engine vacuum line one style screws on and the other style has a plastic fitting and the vacuum hose slides on and is clamped. I have seen the later finback booster used and boosters from the W114 and W108, W109 series sedans used. As long as original boosters are available or re-buildable I would suspect that you would want to stay original. In a pinch you can substitute possibly.
-
James,
Here is a photo of the booster "notch". It looks like many boosters have been changed to other versions and have no "notch". I am sure others can verify the exact variety used. I guess it would be good to review the engineering specs before making any un-original changes. This information may be helpful some day, if the originals become scarce and NLA. Some Mercedes sedan models of the era did use the same "notched" booster.
-
.../...the original pagoda boosters have a notch out at the top rim of the booster directly above the master cylinder. This is the easiest way to identify it quickly.../...
This is the T51 type, mounted in the 230SL, the 250SL and early 280SL. In 1969 the booster was changed to one w/o notch. See picture in my reply #3 in this thread.
The corresponding type Boosters, the same as W113 Pagoda, were fitted in W108/109 and the W111 cp/cab; and were changed at the same time in 1969.
-
Thank you all so very much
You are all an amazing source of help
I now have model numbers and photos to work from
What an education
I will let you know how I get on
Thank you again
James
-
Hi
Did you manage to resolve your brake booster problems.. you mentioned you’d get back…
-
Please can someone tell me the difference between a LHD servo and a RHD servo?