Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: Pawel66 on December 21, 2017, 21:38:42
-
Could you kindly help with part number for the breather/cooling line sleeve (on the picture). I cannot find it in the EPC for some reason...
I have found lots of posts on the L shaped breather tube, but the protective sleeve, I have not found.
-
Hello Pawel,
SLS has got it:
https://www.sls-hh-shop.de/main/de/mercedes-230-280sl-w113/07-09-14-mech-einspritzung-saugrohr-/09-saugrohr-und-luftfilter
€ 9.76 including VAT :)
That should be viable. ;)
On the EPC, it's indeed hard to find ... It could be A114 010 0270 (breather pipe) but I cannot confirm since the reference to a pic was missing.
The part also seems to be NLA.
I would go with SLS. ;)
Good luck
& keep us informed
Achim
-
Achim, thank you!
I have the SLS one now, but I see this part looks a bit different on some of the pictures of the original engines than the one from SLS. Therefore I was curious if the MB one is still there.
I thought the part you quoted might be the black L-shaped piece of breather pipe that goes in the sleeve together with cooler pipe. And yes - the trouble with EPC is the picture references. I sometimes go to Niemoeller pages to look for picture references as Niemoeller often quotes original MB PNs next to their catalogue number and a picture. But graphincs used there are same as Mercedes and this part is not shown there.
I thought maybe this sleeve appears on some of the issues of the paper parts books - a lot of parts are shown there that are not visible in the EPC...
-
Hi, Pawel,
Ah Ha, this part is hiding under Engine 114.980 Engine cooling or 114022 250 CE
116 Part # 007 997 7782
117 Part # 130 203 0080
Please be aware that this part # is for an earlier 280 engine. The last engines ( from 10.004597 and 12.007230) had a shorter (by 40mm) pipe but I don't know where that one is hiding. (May be 007 997 8182 ???)
naj
-
Pawel, The shorter one is like golddust....
-
hi
i have one of these and am not using it. not sure why i ordered it since its not for my 66 230.
you can have it if i can locate it
there is a chance a co worker will be visiting from Tczew in January. I could send it back to Tczew with her. Not sure if that is close to you.
matt
-
HOSE, COOLING SYS, VLR - MERCEDES-BENZ (007-997-77-82) is the correct description and part number. I just ordered one in August from the Classic Center.
-
Thank you all for your kind attention!
My engine number is 12010982, late.
First point is that there is a protective hose and a gasket that goes with it. It is not discovering America for most of you. But this was one of the reasons I started looking at it - I saw on the pictures (49er, Motoring Investments) that there is something there I do not have. SLS do not show it.
In the EPC for my car and for my engine I have:
A007 997 7782 - protective hose, engines (983) as of 000178. I see no subsequent part number change for later engines. So this is what doitwright stated.
A130 203 0080 - gasket, engines (983) as of 000178. I see no subsequent part number change for later engines.
I see also that the plastic bands for holding vacuum line to distributor and a hose from coolant reservoir to radiator - are present on early 280 and do not see them on late 280 - so it seems, not sure.
The protective hose is availble 24h form the dealer, the gasket 72h. I will order them and see what I get, they are not so expensive - short or long (I see what you mean on some of the motoring investments pictures, but in Motoring Investments they make lots of mistakes on the details, so unless it is a Holy Grail, I treat them with caution).
Naj,
indeed I found the picture you sent in 114 part of EPC and it is the only place that shows the part and the gasket (tat i swhere I saw the gasket first time). I do not see A 0089978182 on part list for my engine, actually, it looks it is some version of the cooling hose/line from FIP to throttle, not sure.
Matt,
Thank you very much for your kind consideration!
Tczew is a nice town located in the delta of the Vistula river, about 250-300km from Warsaw. It became famous as it was the first home for the Maritime Academy in 1920's when Poland re-gained independence and started building its human resources to man its military and commercial fleet.
Do you have the short or the longer sleeve? As it would be difficult to meet your co-worker, it would require postage sending, repayment etc. - I would not dare to ask for this effort and trouble in case I can just get it here. But in case I cannot get the short one and you have the short one - I will kindly ask you just to sell it and ship it to me - maybe that would be the simplest.
Thakn you all again, I will write what I get.
-
Curious what you will get ; i bought the Mb, and the SLS one and the are both the long version
-
I have the SLS and I think it is the short version. So the MB, as per what you say that they are the same, is, I think, the short version too.
But I have not seen a lot of those parts and I am just basing my view on the below pictures: in the red Pagoda (Motoring Investements) I think we see the longer one. On the "Holy Grail" Pagoda, Motoring Investments too, we see, I think the short version that looks simialr to what I have from SLS.
On 49er 280SL, which is 1968, I see what I call shorter as well.
I just have not seen a picture with this sleeve being even shorter... It usually is from end of flexible hoses on the throttle all the way to where the coolant pipe goes "to the right", or longer, which I saw only on the picture of the red Pagoda I attached.
We will see, I am curious myself.
-
Mine is a 1970 too ; the repro i got from SLS was the same one as on the red car.
I ended up in cutting the original NOS sleeve to fit.
-
I see. Let's find out what comes from MB this time. I will write what I got.
-
Ok, I got the longer one from Mercedes.
Previously I had the SLS one, which was shorter, but it did not have the "lip" at the end from the breather side.
The Mercedes one has part number and a small star on it. I think I will end up cutting it, as Naj did.
I see also that EPC suggests two plastic loom ties around it to hold the distributor vacuum line. I also see them on some of the pictures (49er). I only see that the coolant return line is lead across this sleeve to radiator - on some pictures, also held by a loom tie, on some other it goes to the right of the throttle, not held by anyting (Holy Grail). Not sure which way is the correct one for late 280SL. It is a minor detail - if only we had this kind of dilemmas! - but just fun to study.
-
The Mercedes one has part number and a small star on it. I think I will end up cutting it, as Naj did.
Hello, Pawel,
I did not cut the pipe.
when new the rubber is still very soft so i made a double fold on it. looks like a cuff.
naj
-
Keep in mind that the reason SLS and some others offer such good prices in comparison to MB is because many of their parts are reproduction. Not saying the quality is not there but that is what I have found with most all rubber parts I have received from them. If a part is slightly shorter or slightly different than what your original looked like it is not OEM. Sometimes they look and feel the same except there is no part number stamped on the piece. I just received this sleeve you are looking for from MB and it has the logo and number stamped on it. With a decent discount, the MB is often not much more $ than the repro. But you have to choose. I received some repro tail light frames from another German parts supplier and it cannot be distinguished from my original faded frames. How long the chrome will hold up compared to the original I cannot tell you but I could buy another set and still have spent less than the OEM.
-
Hello, Pawel,
I did not cut the pipe.
when new the rubber is still very soft so i made a double fold on it. looks like a cuff.
naj
Yes, sorry, 450sl cut it. I cut mine, kept the lip (as I think it should prevent the rubber from cracking) and put the lip back on at the end - looks like it is from there.
doitwright, I am aware of these mechanics. It is a whole knowledge what to buy where. And it is true - MB is not always astronomically expensive. In essence: most of the visible parts or those where quality is essential I try to buy from Mercedes. I have had some bad experience with SLS (headlight to body seals) and some positive as well. Here I went for the original even though I had to trim it a bit.
By the way - perhaps there are ways to do it easier, but putting this sleeve on is heavy exercise...
-
I have yet to install mine. I remember when I took the old one off (already deteriorated) it cracked. I imagine putting the new one in some hot water or warming it up with a heat gun might be necessary.
Pawel66 I figured you you were familiar with the difference in parts from various suppliers. I just thought others reading this post should be made aware.
-
Thanks Frank!
I used vaseline to slide the pipes through. But it was heavy effort :). I am sure there is a better way, but for now, wether you do it on the bench or on the engine, these pipes fit very tight...
-
Just to close the topic - as I saw in some of the original engine pictures and as EPC suggests, I wanted to tie the vacuum line form the throttle to the protective sleeve, then with a metal clip to the water line, around the engine through the front bracket to the ignition distributor.
The loom ties suggested by EPC are, however, too short. I used the bigger ones. The short ones have about 8cm of effective length, the longer ones about 25cm. You will probably say these are not correct, but this is what Mercedes offers today as a replacement.
Now the last piece for me to do is to install the fuel line clamps. I have never had all of them. Now I see there is quite a lot of them there. It is going to be tough as my fuel lines are not so nice and straight as new ones - if you know any tricks on how to do it or how far you can try to bent the fuel lines before they break - please advise!
-
I checked my "stock" of left over parts, and I have several of the 25 cm ties as you show in the picture. The part number on the bag was the same as the one you had for the longer strip. For those kind of ties, I just used the longer ones, and cut the excess.
Fitting the glove box door is really quite a pain is it not?!
-
To be honest the toughest part I am a bit afraid to finish - push in a bit the place where the oval bezel is...
No problem at all except riveting the hinge (I have leather on already that I did not want to damage). When you have it as a unit (box+flap) it is easy to put together closing mechanismand align it, fitting it back in is 30 seconds when you have the light wire longer and with the plug and socket. The point I still should do is try to bend in the left box face - the place where the oval bezel is is too far to the front causing flap having a gap of about 1mm at the top. I need to push it in a bit. It was ok on the bench, once in place - went out of line. This is probably where you are coming from in terms of difficulty... ;)
-
I recently added the 3-part clamps (the ones with a white middle piece holding all six lines) to my lines. They were missing for at least 20 years so the lines would not go easy into the slots. It takes some time but it will work, try to fit them in the cavities the best you can and then tighten the screw to bring them together. I have some pictures showing the location of the clamps if you want.
Radu
-
Radu, thank you!
Of course the more pictures the better. I found some on our forum, I think Naj was posting them some time ago. It looked like:
- the 6 line clamps go on each side more or less mid way between the point when you can grab 6 lines together and the front bracket
- the 3 line clamp goes on the right, after cylinder 3
- one of the 2 line clamps joins the cold start valve line with one of the cylinder lines on the left side
- not sure about the second 2 line clamp - I saw it holding the last two cylinder lines on the right and I saw it holding the cold start valve line and cylinder line on the right - not sure which is correct
The questions to me are also:
1. EPC suggests one rubber for the fron tbracket. The vendors suggest two rubbers. What is the truth?
2. Vendors suggest 2 plastic inserts for the front bracket - do you really need 2? EPC does not suggest plastic insert there, but I suppose it is helpful there.
-
Pawel, I think you got the locations right. I will check my pictures when I get home.
I've been through the same when I was trying to figure out the front bracket but I gave up being so expensive. I remember seeing a picture showing clearly 2 rubbers and the spacers being flush with the rubbers, therefore 2. I believe EPC is wrong here.
-
Ok, thank you!
I ordered one plastic for the front due to budget reasons and lack of conviction....
-
Pawel, when I saw the prices for these bits I took an aluminum bar, drilled several 6mm holes cut it through the middle of the holes and made myself the 2 6-line bracket kits. I still have aluminum bar leftover.
Anyway here is a set of pictures. The ones at home looked better if I find them.
-
More pics, you should download them and zoom into the bracket locations.
-
The prices are horrendous! It is about $30 for each component of a clamp. 6 line clamp comes to $100!
Yours look nice and even indeed!
-
Perhaps worth knowing: the PN for pipe bracket (fuel injector lines) is A6170780085 (6 pieces needed). Well, the part description is "pipe bracket" and I expected (perhaps wrongly) that those would be the halves with 3 slots each for 6 lines (two halves and plastic block between them). They should have one screw hole.
But what you get is halves with 4 slots and 2 screw holes, which, I guess, is for 8 lines and, as much as I know, is not used in our cars. If my assumptions were correct (about 6 lines brackets) then this is a not really nice surprise. Need to cut them...
-
Good thing that I made them. If you need instructions Pawel on how to make them let me know. I found the pictures I had at home.
-
And the last picture, again if you zoom in you will see the details. BTW were you born in '66?
-
Hi, Pawel,
Ah Ha, this part is hiding under Engine 114.980 Engine cooling or 114022 250 CE
116 Part # 007 997 7782
117 Part # 130 203 0080
Please be aware that this part # is for an earlier 280 engine. The last engines ( from 10.004597 and 12.007230) had a shorter (by 40mm) pipe but I don't know where that one is hiding. (May be 007 997 8182 ???)
naj
Hello Naj,
the part # 007 997 7782 is also listed in the M130 spare parts list under the somewhat strange name "insulating hose". It is used on all M130.983 engines from engine # 000178.
-
Alfred,
it is indeed. The problem with looking for parts in EPC is exactly what you say: there is no sleeve on the drawing, you have to go through all parts descriptions on the side of the drawing and look for parts without numbers - those are the parts that are there and they are not on the picture. I could not find this sleeve and I asked the question - I was given a number and a lead that it is under W114. Another example - underdash drain hoses - great weekend entertainment.
Radu,
Yes, I cut the clamps and ground them on a grinder.
Thank you for your kind help - it was great. I just finished. I thought of a system of wood wedges and a couple of carpenter's clamps (priceless for the front bracket). I started from the left side then moved to the right side, so the middle came up pretty straight. I spent 2 hours on the bottom screw of the front bracket. I twisted my arm again (just like when I was fitting the rubber breather/cooler sleeve), I was late for lunch again (with severe consequences as well - cold fajita and silent wife), but I did it. Well, silent wife may not be that severe, actually...
Yes, I am a libra, born in 1966.
-
Coming back to breather/cooling line sleeve and methods of its application... I just thought, it is probably very stupid, but I will try if I happen to do it nect time...
Naj was talking about rolling the end of it. Maybe it would be easier to apply it if you roll it up all the way? put it on the ends of the pipes and roll down nice and easy. Excuse me, but it would be like hm.... putting the condom on...
I will try it, mayeb on somebody else's car first 8)...