Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Joel on July 27, 2016, 19:44:23
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hello,
My name is Joel and I live in Belgium, I own a 1 man restoration shop near Brussels.
Since February I'm working on a 280SL from a customer. He has taken it completely apart exept the doors, bonnet and tailgate so that I could check all the gaps.
the general condition of the vehicle: (we have a saying) nice from far but far from nice
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the start
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in the shop
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when they have removed the engine they made a little damage
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first day I had to take the last parts off.
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More first day pictures
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speaker holes
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that's it for today! next time more (ugly) pictures
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Looks like a fun project. It's too bad he didn't leave it assembled with at least the suspension and drivetrain. You will find that the gaps will change in relation to weight and where the body is supported.
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Thanks Tyler, I know what you want to say but I have taken my precautions.
more pictures from the start
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I'm certainly not the first to work on this car
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then I went to work with a screwdriver, chisel and hammer
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not good
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I hate fiberglass
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right
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someone had to be proud of his work
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unbelieveable
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I had a suspicion that something was wrong with the right rear wing
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Which is why I tell people that I can't see through paint.
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someone apparently could not weld but bonde was the fast and cheap option
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So after a good talk to the customer the work continue
I made a frame to support the body and braced the door openings
and start stripping paint using the 3M Scotch-Brite XT-RD Strip Discs
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After removing the floors and the right wing I took it to the soft blaster
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2days later after blasting ready for transport back to the shop.
more pictures tomorrow
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Looks like a major job! Thanks for the updates and good luck on all the work ahead.
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Looks like your doing an excellent job.
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more pictures from just before the sandblasting that I want to share
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more
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I also have videos, how can I share them?
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Host them on Youtube, Vimeo and insert link in post. If I want to save it for ever, I can upload it to our server but you'd need to WeTransfer it to me.
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about the gaps that will change after the car is back on its wheels and with the engine:
I'm going to do all the metalwork and finish the bottom and inside of the car. I will try to get al the gaps as good as possible. Meanwhile, the owner will sort out the engine and suspension.
I then bring back the body and he will then reassemble the engine and suspension. then the car comes back for the exterior and panels fitment
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after blasting
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after blasting
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more after blasting
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there is always light at the end of the tunnel :-)
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If it will be my car, I will put it now on a Cilett bench to correct the chassis bending...........It is always bendet.
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From experience start your repairs from the back of the car. If you are replacing the rear wings do that first, align the boot lid to the rear wing the set the door to the rear wing then mount your front fenders. My car was "Restored" in 1980 and they did it all wrong. The front fenders were done first then the doors and by the time they got to the back of the car the boot lid overhung the fenders, the rear door gaps were off so far they had to add 1/4"(8mm) of filler in the door jamb to get it close. I had tp re-do everything they did.
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Good advice above.
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Thanks for the advice
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new parts
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more
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new wing
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first video
sorry for the bad quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WBgQ5gqkhk
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can't wait to see the progress. thanks for sharing this adventure.... :)
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Hi Joel,
Nice to see you having started this thread as was recommended in the "New Member Introduction" thread. As I mentioned many members here will follow your thread and when you encounter roadblocks don't be shy to ask. Help is just around the corner, it's almost like having your personal technical support team.
Once again welcome and good luck with this project and your business.
Dieter
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thank you
in a perfect world it would be best to buy everything new but there are limits so I need to fabricate some parts myself (which makes it fun). remember I'm not a pagoda expert and have no perfect original car available to copy and half of this car has been tampered with.
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trunk floor sandblasted
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Nice Job!
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rust repair
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more videos:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJtEO2-zS9Vc93cZ6wMkkqg
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rear right
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mounting door and boot lid to adjust new wing
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wing done
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Joel,
This is an incredible amount of work. A little like this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acEIycUg5CQ
This has been posted here before. Best of luck and keep posting your updates.
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new right rear floorboard
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took the front and wing off,
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the old and new inner wing
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new frame rail
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crossmember repair
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more
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new metal
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Respect Joel ...I can see you really enjoy your work, and love working with sheetmetal .. Keep posting :)
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Thanks,
Yes i love to do sheet metal work, it takes a lot of time but the result is rewarding!
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I just uploaded a new video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHTR0V6aPQs
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new cross member
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new inner wing
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Joel you have done a wonderful job starting from a car in terrible condition. My 280SL had been given a rotten restoration many years ago before I got it, where they covered up the rust in the floor and then spent time and money on a great paint job. The good news it that while I had to replace both side rail and the floors on both sides, the rest of the car appears to be in better shape that your project. There are still unknowns when it goes to the media blaster.
Keep up the good work, I like your photos.
Howard
71 280SL 4-speed
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Thanks Howard,
Media blasting almost always brings more secrets and work to the surface. But I love it because I do not like to find surprises afterwards.
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I can see that you really love sheet metal work and you have all the necessary tools to do it. I have many year of experience working on many different cars for the last 50 plus years but my paint and body work experience goes way back to a my first car a 1949 Hudson and a 1955 Chevy that I worked on as a teenager. When I found that my 280SL was in such bad shape I had to decide if I could justify the cost or a body shop or to learn the skills and do it myself. Maybe a foolish decision but I decided on the later route. I have been rewarded with the challenges and the progress so far, i am about 60% done with metal work.
I am probably still 2 years away for getting the 280SL back together. Today it is sheet metal work to recreate the bottom 4 inches of the front of the right rear fender between the passenger door and the right rear wheel well. The rust had got that area in a bad way and I did not find any reproduction metal for that area other than the entire bottom half of the fender. It will take several small pieces to recreate that 4 by 8 inch piece of fender but it is something I can do. Although I can use a metal shrinker for other parts, this is the place that i could not do very well without justifying the cost of a Shrinker and a Stretcher.
I have attached a photo of where I am working on the bottom of the right rear fender and a photo of the complex piece on the bottom of the fender that joins with the rocker panel. This piece in only one of 4 pieces that will recreate the fender area.
Howard
71 280SL 4-speed
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yes sheet metal is fun.
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what paint does jou use as a anti rust coating ?
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hi guyke,
I use Glasurit and standox époxy to spray with a gun.
the red primer is in a aerosol.
the grey weld through primer is normfest aerosol.
If you need more info send me a mail. (ik spreek nederlands) ;)
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today i sand down the paint from the inside of the bonnet. P60 - P80 - P100
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and 2 layers of black époxy.
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exterior bonnet: about 12 layers to remove :o
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5 hours later
and epoxy
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Joel,
Your hood looks a lot like mine. I have not started on the hood yet but I know that it has so many layers of paint and body filler that it was way to heavy for the spring to support it and I had to use a piece of wood to securely hold the hood open. About 4 years ago I had a battery charger on to charge the battery and the hood closed on the electrical cord. That caused a patch of paint to break loose so that I could see just how thick the paint was. I attached a photo of the place on the edge of the hood where it shows the many layers.
I was considering having the aluminum pieces cleaned by a gentle blasting process like Soda but if you are sanding the hood maybe I should reconsider. I know that warping is a problem, it that why you cleaned the hood by sanding or did you have other reasons.
Do you use a different epoxy primer for aluminum or do you use the same primer on steel?
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Howard,
After 3 kg of paint and filler the Hood is in a very good condition, just 2 small dents. Up to now the best panel of the car. ;D
I have no experience with soda blasting but the company that blasted the body use a gentle method called soft blasting (at low pressure I think) they say it is no problem with aluminum.
But I do not take a risk and do it myself. I use a 3m scotch brite xt-rd disc to take 80 to 90% off than p60 sandpaper then p 80 and p100. Only time-consuming.
I use Standox and Glasurit epoxy and according to what they have explained to me it is good on aluminum.
Joel
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Joel,
That is good to know that you did not trust any blasting on the hood.
Do you plan to prepare your doors and the trunk lid in the same manner?
I have a media blaster that I have been using to clean most steel parts that I have removed, front suspension, rear axle and miscellaneous other parts. I have done everything in my basement garage and I do not have spray paint equipment. I have used paint products from Eastwood in aerosol cans for both rust treatment and finish paint. I have about 70% of parts prepared to reassemble.
Because some misguided owner or body shop had the car undercoated (which really stops the media blaster), I have spent hours and hours removing all that gunk with scrapers and wire brush just to determine where the rust was and what sheet metal parts needed to be replaced. I realize that I could not find all the rust this way so I plan to send the body out for complete media blasting after I complete the sheet metal work. Unless there is other major rust found,my plan is to have a body shop spray the body with epoxy primer and then finish paint the inside, underneath and inside the trunk before I bring the body home to reassemble and get it running.
When I have the mechanicals worked out, I will send the assembled car back to the body shop for final paint on the exterior, hood, doors, trunk lid and hard top. Maybe an odd plan but I really did not know I was going to get this deep into the sheet metal on this project until I was well into the job.
I have a long way to do but it has been a great project to work on. As a retired mechanical engineer and airline pilot, the sheet metal work has been one challenge after another, sometimes stopping me dead in my tracks until I find a way to move to the next challenge. Very rewarding on the whole.
Howard
71 280SL 4-speed
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Yes the doors and thrunk lid has bin done the same way. The underside of the car was also undercoated but its scraped clean ready to get sand blasted when the car is structurally ready and strong enough to go into the rotisserie.
sounds like your project is of the same scale as mine. is it also on this forum?
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Joel,
You have done such a great job of documenting how and what you have done. I have not taken the time to photograph each step along the way. I have posted a few photos of my effort in other forums but I have not set it up as a new subject. I guess I feel like the amateur in this vast forum of real experts. Do you think that there would be enough interest in my project?
It has taken me nearly 2 weeks preparing the pieces for the area between the door and the wheel well on the passenger side and tomorrow I hope to get those welded in. It had surprised me as to how long it takes me to prepare a section for only a hour or two of welding. I guess part of the extra time is because I am learning new skills each day.
Howard
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I always take pictures for me but also for my customers so they can see what they pay for. I definitely think there is an interest to see more projects in this forum, I know I like to see project photos ;D
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new headlight bucket.
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left front fender done
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on to the other side
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patch panel
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front right
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front right
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Joel,
Great photos. I hope that I do not have to get into the front of my car near this far. I do need to do a section of the reinforcement strut in both front wheel wells but I think that I can repair the area I need to work on without removing the front fenders. It really multiplies the effort of work if the fenders have to come off. I am not certain, I am ready for that.
Howard
71 280SL 4-speed
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it is indeed a big job, but now I'm sure I do no mis any rust.
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right front inner fender.
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video 7
let me know if you like the videos or prefer the pictures....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSMtDsl7Blc
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Joel, I like the vids as an overall overview, though you should make them a little longer with some tight detail shots. The pics are great for the forum as they wont go missing over time. (Links go missing/ dont work, youtube looses videos)
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Ok Tyler i will keep that in mind for the next video!
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Joel,
I agree with Tyler, pictures are better for us to keep on our Group data bases rather than a linked videos that may disappear. I find pictures are also very handy as reference points and many a time I have printed a photo and taken it out to my shed to check it against the car.
Garry
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sandblasted and reused the wheel arch strut
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sandblast the inner fender and put in the new Lamp housing
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fender back on
and époxy on it
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sandblasted and cleaned up the baffle plates and put them back in.
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new nose panel
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good clean up and ready for epoxy
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époxy exterior
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cleanup Inside and also epoxy
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and the front sheet metal work is done
new video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WllTbe0d1OA
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Phenomenal restoration! You are a master craftsman. I'd hate to have to pony up the money to pay for that job!
There's going to be very little left of the original when you're finished. Thanks fir sharing!
Kevin
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Thank you Kevin,
I'm very happy that the 113 parts are available. Imagine that I would have to imitate every part that is rusted out :o
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left rear
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Inner wheel arch is not available, so recovered the old one
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man daar bleef toch niks goed over van dezen auto , waar heeft deze gestoken om zo verroest te zijn , ik durf de mijne al nie meer laten zandstralen ::) :-[ :-[ :-X
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Translation: Man, there's nothing left of this car. Where has that been, to be so rusted? I don't dare have mine sandblasted anymore!
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:D
It was a complete and driving car when I saw it for the first time a year ago.
Remember, unless you have an original and unrestored car you never know 100% what you buy. I've worked on a lot of old cars (from ferrari, jaguars to citroen and opel) and rarely saw well restored car. Certainly the "restorations" from before the classic car boom. A lot of the "restaurations" wear just to flip the car to make money or a cheap and fast fix to get them back on the road.
A beautiful filler and paintjob can hide many surprises.
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new Outer wheelarch
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Making the missing piece.
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:)
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cleaned up the wing
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epoxy
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Nice work!
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is there a way to look in to the cavitys ( spots not to seen by eye ) in the pagoda for rust , my car look rock solid but after these pics from the car jou are restauring ::) ::) ::)
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Gurke,
I think there are some openings you can get into, then use a borescope (best type is a Olympus with a fiberoptic flexable tip that allows you to rotate the tip 360 degree during inspection, controls to move 360 degree are on the hand heald section of the scope}. There may be places you can rent one (see link below). The first one I ever used I rented from Olympus then later I purchased one (now sold since I'm no longer in business). I used it for steam path inspection on turbogenerators and hot gas path inspection on gas turbines. They are great scopes.
Dieter
Link here ----> http://www.olympus-ims.com/en/fiberscope/
Joel,
Great stuff continue the excellent work.
Dieter
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Thank all.
I use also a Cheap inspection camera (see link: http://alphametal.be/nl/component/mijoshop/product/52736-silverline-inspectiecamera) not quality to use every day but every now and then. 131euro is not the end of the world and it can come in hand on other projects like engines.
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door and boot lid mounted back to adjust the wing back on the good spot.
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done
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again all panels back on to make sure that it is ok.
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is there a way to look in to the cavitys ( spots not to seen by eye ) in the pagoda for rust , my car look rock solid but after these pics from the car jou are restauring ::) ::) ::)
There certainly are inspection holes into almost every cavity. I have my 280SL on a rotisserie and there are 2 mm access holes to get into nearly every cavity. Many of the access holes have rubber hole plugs that can be removed and replaced. I suspect that all access holes had rubber plugs at one time but many of mine had been removed or lost. Some holes in a completed car would be covered with upholstery or carpet that would need to be removed or at least peeled back to get to the access hole. I have a cheap Centech camera with a three foot probe to look in to each cavity. Resolution could be better but you can get an idea of where the problems are. Some cavities have little or no rust but some areas need attention.
As I have replaced the frame rails and floors on each side I have inspected the inside of the A & B pillars and other cavities. Then I have treated each cavity before I closed the bottom opening. Then I use the access holes to spray the inside of the areas that I just welded closed. For rust treatment in those cavities, I have been using a rust encapsulating product from Eastwood. "Eastwood Internal Frame Coating, Item #12515Z" This is in a aerosol can with a special 360 degree spray nozzle on 24 inch plastic hose to get into the cavities. I am certain that there are other similar products to do the same job.
I am currently working in the passenger side front wheel well to replace the reinforcing strut and deal with other rust areas. I am inspecting and treating the cavities in that area as I go. I realize I cannot get to all of the rust but I am trying to do what I can do.
I admire the great work that Joel is doing on his project car. I wish I had the time and skills to do my car to that level.
Howard
71 280SL 4-speed
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Thanks Howard for providing this Eastwood spray coating, looks like a great product. I will order some and carry out a cavity inspection on my baby. I looked it up and added the link below for others.
Dieter
coating link ---> http://www.eastwood.com/internal-frame-coating-w-spray-nozzle-qt.html
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Deiter,
When you use that Eastwood spray be prepared for it to leak out somewhere, Put down papers to catch the excess. It is really good at what it does and it bonds to the floor of the garage real good or to anything else that it drips on. You might ask how I know.
I have been using the Green version but I see that they now make it in black. I think the green has advantages done the road when you look into the cavity again. New rust is likely more like black than the green.
Howard
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the 10 of januar there is a guy comming inspecting my water tubes in my house , i had a leak and repaired it , its a company that is send by the insurance to inspect everything to prevent future leaks , i think that includes my pagoda 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D prevent future rust ;D ;D
thanks for showing us the product , on the /8 mercedes we always pouring a mix from rust preventer and used oil in the cavitys , leave that some weaks in it , and finaly let it out , cavity treathing on high level ;D ;D
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You've really made huge progress in 6 months!
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Thank you,
in about 2 weeks its 1 year sincs I started the work.
This week I got it of the frame and in the rotisserie.
And have taken off the last undercoating.
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left rear is in
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right front Reinforcement Under floor is damaged so cut it out, made it straight and welded back in.
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and the new right front floor pan in.
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one word
respect
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Today borrowed an enclosed trailer to go sandblast the underside and last spots.
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small video of today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uA6JatZQ4tc
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Now that the Inside of the crossmember is sandblasted I applied primer and welded the floor section in.
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I have coated and welded the frame rails closed.
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some lead done on the 4 wings. I have not exaggerated because I think this is very unhealthy work. just a little on the welds.
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I have the trunk floor not yet in so I could primer the Inside of the fenders en the upper panel good.
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1 coat of black époxy and 1 coat white of primer
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let it cure for 2 days
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trunk floor in and some époxy with the brush.
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Really fantastic work Joel!!
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2 coats of black hs primer filler in the tunk and convertible top space.
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some spray filler on the places I've put lead.
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taping of the outside
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seam sealer
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stone guard
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DB 181 hellbeige and 2 coats clear
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done
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:)
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some 164 tiefdunkelgrau in the trunk.
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video 10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_26xLVqo4g
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minor setback
customer does not like the color and has decided to take the original color 050 white
so I re-sanded the bottom, sanded the rest of the inside and outside.
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and paint
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video primer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwQkt9spUS4
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very white 8)
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sorry for the low quality video but that is because of the lights in the paint booth
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=yzmpZY6eoPw
https://www.youtube.com/edit?o=U&video_id=fBtDRBU9-mg
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Joel
I was not able to watch the videos on Youtube, the message was that upload was cancelled... in both cases
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Hi Joel, Here are your working public links. It appears your above links were saved from within the editing portion of your channel. I am subscribed to your channel so they did show up on my channel feed.
Car is looking great!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzmpZY6eoPw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBtDRBU9-mg
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sorry I was in a rush to upload the video I think!
some parts sprayed today.
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more parts
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before I take the car off the rotisserie I treat the Inside of the rails and sills so I can move the car side to side for good penetration.
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I love these thin hoses.
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I never heard of a cavity spray. How does it work may I ask? I'm in the process of getting mine ready to go on a rotisserie and am looking for all of the advice I can get.
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the cavity spray is necessary after repairs, to protect the insides and inaccessible places against corrosion. I used as much as possible rust converters and primers for the cavities and the cavity spray is a protection wax against moisture and new rust.
but at their website you will find more explanations:
http://www.loctite.co.uk/loctite-4087.htm?nodeid=8802653798401
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thanks Joel. I know several places I will use it now.
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finally back on the dolly
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Now the rotisserie is out of the way I primed the front cross member and the rear panel.
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painted the gear box tunnel and front battery protection board flat black yesterday and brought the car back today. Almost 1 year and 2 months later. 8)
video 14:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQQoDbsPnj0
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I hope some people found it interesting so far. Now it will take a while until I get back the car for the final fit and finish of the panels and the final paint.
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Joel
Was very interesting and taking the time and sharing your work is appreciated.
Dirk
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Congratulations on hitting this milestone Joel. Great work! Thanks for Sharing.
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You are an unbelievable craftsman Joel. Thanks for taking the time to share so much with us.
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Was able to learn a great deal about my own car. Thank you very much. Continued success with your project...
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thank you all
I've already started on the next project 8)