Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: mbazinet on June 19, 2016, 05:54:01
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Hi, i am looking for a supplier for the steel fuel injection lines from the pump to the individual injectors
does anyone have a source ?
Thanks very much !
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Hi,
Try the guys who built your car, they had them last time I checked, a few years ago though and a little pricey. Or used lines sometimes turn up on the usual sites (ebay etc.) Sedan lines will fit so they are not that hard to come by.
Hans
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Mercedes sells them for about $150 each. They are available used and if the problem with your old lines is cosmetic they can be re-plated.
For used ones I would post a note on the Wanted to Buy section of the forums.
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Thank you very much guys any good ideas on folks that can to the re-plating ?
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Yes, they can be replated but if you want excellent results, clean them until they sparkle (figure of speech). I had my old ones replated but did not clean them well enough. I thought the plater's dipping process would be good enough. It wasn't. I should have flow tested the tubes, then sanded them down and polished the bare metal before plating them. They came back various colors and rusty inside.
I bought new ones from MB Classic Center and got all new ones, but apparently from different batches and even different MB suppliers. They too were different colors from gray to gold and one even had different style fitting on the injector end.
As my brother used to say, "They weren't cheap, but on the other hand, they were bad quality." I had the new ones replated in British Columbia, and they came back different finishes (dull to shiny) and different colors (different shades of CAD plating like yellow, gold, brass, bronze).
I gave up after spending so much money and when I install them, I'll choose the best ones, finish them as shiny as I can and then plate them with yellow zinc or paint them gold.
Whatever you choose, be really diligent. The better they look when you ship them out, the better they will look when you get them back. Except for the problem I had with my not prepping my hardware well enough before sending it out for replating, I was happy with Detray Plating in Missouri. I got tired and took shortcuts (mistake) because I had them replate over 1,600 individual parts.
Tom Kizer
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I wrote this article for the 356 Registry a while ago, late 90's to be exact, I hope it helps. It was used for a 1957 Porsche, obviously the later cars, like my 230SL have Yellow Cad or Zinc Chromate but the key is in preparation. Garbage in - Garbage out.
By Ron Scoma
Call it what you will, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Anal Retentive, being a craftsman, or just plain having no life; this is what I did to Cad plate stuff.
1. Make a list of all items to be plated.
2. Find the parts in the Bucket O' Stuff and count the items.
3. Soak in orange cleaner to somewhat degrease, rinse.
4. Soak in Carb Cleaner to really degrease, rinse.
5. Soak in Muriatic acid to remove prior plating.
6. DON'T let the acid come in contact with aluminum (tin foil) trays, I'm not sure why you shouldn't but the end results were very bad. You may not have a screaming S.O. shouting "where's the checkbook, I need to increase your life insurance ?" but still, even without that bonus, the effects were pretty bad. Neighbors in the unit next door were curious also...
At this stage you have parts free of grease and oil.
7. Blast with 180 grit AO (aluminum oxide) to even out the surface. (I used barrel blasting for the fasteners).
8. Chase all threads with an undersize tap/die. You want to clean the threads, not remove metal.
9. Blast with the equivalent of 280 grit glass to produce an even sheen for the Cad.
10. Bring to plater. You have already identified a plater that;
a) will do Cadmium 1 or Silver Cad.
b) will do Cadmium for YOU if your company name isn't Boeing or McDonnell-Douglas.
c) will not lose most of your parts.
d) you can afford.
To do a bucket (a gallon paint can or so) of fasteners (2 complete engines), 6 fuel lines, 3 crank pulleys, 3 generator pulleys, 2 generator cases, 4 valve covers, 3 dipsticks, etc., etc., etc., was $200 cash in the Chicago area. All-in-all, not too bad for the upgrade in cosmetic appearance in my opinion. Add that to a little powder coating, a little epoxy coating (heater boxes and fan), a little VHT (muffler system) paint and you have a pretty nice looking engine. Do not plate heat treated (black) fasteners.
Final Tips:
Cadmium can be removed by muriatic acid (better to plate and remove, then not plate enough). Everything must be oil and grease free. Fasteners will be lost, have extras. Surface preparation is next to Godliness (repeat 10 times).
DON'T BLAST ANYTHING THAT WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH THE OIL SYSTEM.
DON'T BLAST ANYTHING THAT WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH THE OIL SYSTEM.
and
DON'T BLAST ANYTHING THAT WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH THE OIL SYSTEM.
BE NICE to the plater. You will forget to bring him that one bolt or part that will be very visible necessitating a return trip. You don't want another minimum order charge...
Upon return of your parts...
1) Inspect EVERY part, if you're not happy talk with the plater about re-doing them.
2) Gently run the undersize tap/die through the threads to remove any potential plating that is where it should not be.
3) Sort. The EPC helps a lot with this part. I print and sort based upon M-B's part coding.
I would not spend too much time on washers and or lock/wave washers. Most are available from Metricmcc.com, one of their suppliers is Wurth BTW. Besides, you don't want to reuse lock or wave washers anyway.
Addendum (2016).
+1 With the advent of digital picture taking (phone/camera) keeping track of items is much easier. You will still need a paper notebook and pen.
+2 If I had to do it again I would drill some holes in aluminum or steel sheet to hold each fastener while blasting. Unscrew them a little to get under the head.
+3 The average engine will take about 10 hours of your time to prepare. But if it takes 15, so be it, it takes 15. If you got a date, cancel it.
+4 You need to inspect every millimeter of every part for thread condition and uniformity.
+5 Before going to the plater I wipe everything off with lacquer thinner and put them in a NEW bucket. I know the extra dollar or two for the new bucket will blow the budget but that's life.
+6 I would rack plate everything... that increases the cost substantially, bit it's the ONLY way to get a uniform appearance IMHO.
You MIGHT be able to convince the plater to wire the items yourself. Labor is a BIG cost and that will reduce his labor charges which he will, hopefully, pass along to you.
Also, YOU get to determine where "wire line" (from hanging) is shown. This is very important as you don't want it visible. The plater is probably not well versed in Pagoda originality to make that decision himself.
I like to know who I'm doing business with, the Internet makes it easy. Find out something about the company and the President, if he likes Scotch, bring him a bottle. I'm originally from Chicago and we're use to gifting people like Judges, Politicians and Bureaucrats for example - so why not the guy who does your plating? A small Bouquet O'Cash goes a long way, as does a handshake, with a 10 or 20 inside, to the guy doing the actual work.
Ron
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This is so funny at so many different levels, Ron. It gave me educational value and a few laughters this morning.
Very good summary for anyone interested in plating.
I wrote this article for the 356 Registry a while ago, late 90's to be exact, I hope it helps. It was used for a 1957 Porsche, obviously the later cars, like my 230SL have Yellow Cad or Zinc Chromate but the key is in preparation. Garbage in - Garbage out.
By Ron Scoma
Call it what you will, Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, Anal Retentive, being a craftsman, or just plain having no life; this is what I did to Cad plate stuff.
1. Make a list of all items to be plated.
2. Find the parts in the Bucket O' Stuff and count the items.
3. Soak in orange cleaner to somewhat degrease, rinse.
4. Soak in Carb Cleaner to really degrease, rinse.
5. Soak in Muriatic acid to remove prior plating.
6. DON'T let the acid come in contact with aluminum (tin foil) trays, I'm not sure why you shouldn't but the end results were very bad. You may not have a screaming S.O. shouting "where's the checkbook, I need to increase your life insurance ?" but still, even without that bonus, the effects were pretty bad. Neighbors in the unit next door were curious also...
At this stage you have parts free of grease and oil.
7. Blast with 180 grit AO (aluminum oxide) to even out the surface. (I used barrel blasting for the fasteners).
8. Chase all threads with an undersize tap/die. You want to clean the threads, not remove metal.
9. Blast with the equivalent of 280 grit glass to produce an even sheen for the Cad.
10. Bring to plater. You have already identified a plater that;
a) will do Cadmium 1 or Silver Cad.
b) will do Cadmium for YOU if your company name isn't Boeing or McDonnell-Douglas.
c) will not lose most of your parts.
d) you can afford.
To do a bucket (a gallon paint can or so) of fasteners (2 complete engines), 6 fuel lines, 3 crank pulleys, 3 generator pulleys, 2 generator cases, 4 valve covers, 3 dipsticks, etc., etc., etc., was $200 cash in the Chicago area. All-in-all, not too bad for the upgrade in cosmetic appearance in my opinion. Add that to a little powder coating, a little epoxy coating (heater boxes and fan), a little VHT (muffler system) paint and you have a pretty nice looking engine. Do not plate heat treated (black) fasteners.
Final Tips:
Cadmium can be removed by muriatic acid (better to plate and remove, then not plate enough). Everything must be oil and grease free. Fasteners will be lost, have extras. Surface preparation is next to Godliness (repeat 10 times).
DON'T BLAST ANYTHING THAT WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH THE OIL SYSTEM.
DON'T BLAST ANYTHING THAT WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH THE OIL SYSTEM.
and
DON'T BLAST ANYTHING THAT WILL COME IN CONTACT WITH THE OIL SYSTEM.
BE NICE to the plater. You will forget to bring him that one bolt or part that will be very visible necessitating a return trip. You don't want another minimum order charge...
Upon return of your parts...
1) Inspect EVERY part, if you're not happy talk with the plater about re-doing them.
2) Gently run the undersize tap/die through the threads to remove any potential plating that is where it should not be.
3) Sort. The EPC helps a lot with this part. I print and sort based upon M-B's part coding.
I would not spend too much time on washers and or lock/wave washers. Most are available from Metricmcc.com, one of their suppliers is Wurth BTW. Besides, you don't want to reuse lock or wave washers anyway.
Addendum (2016).
+1 With the advent of digital picture taking (phone/camera) keeping track of items is much easier. You will still need a paper notebook and pen.
+2 If I had to do it again I would drill some holes in aluminum or steel sheet to hold each fastener while blasting. Unscrew them a little to get under the head.
+3 The average engine will take about 10 hours of your time to prepare. But if it takes 15, so be it, it takes 15. If you got a date, cancel it.
+4 You need to inspect every millimeter of every part for thread condition and uniformity.
+5 Before going to the plater I wipe everything off with lacquer thinner and put them in a NEW bucket. I know the extra dollar or two for the new bucket will blow the budget but that's life.
+6 I would rack plate everything... that increases the cost substantially, bit it's the ONLY way to get a uniform appearance IMHO.
You MIGHT be able to convince the plater to wire the items yourself. Labor is a BIG cost and that will reduce his labor charges which he will, hopefully, pass along to you.
Also, YOU get to determine where "wire line" (from hanging) is shown. This is very important as you don't want it visible. The plater is probably not well versed in Pagoda originality to make that decision himself.
I like to know who I'm doing business with, the Internet makes it easy. Find out something about the company and the President, if he likes Scotch, bring him a bottle. I'm originally from Chicago and we're use to gifting people like Judges, Politicians and Bureaucrats for example - so why not the guy who does your plating? A small Bouquet O'Cash goes a long way, as does a handshake, with a 10 or 20 inside, to the guy doing the actual work.
Ron
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With all this talk of sandblasting, acid dipping and sanding previously Cadmium plated parts it would be a good time to remind everyone that Cadmium is horribly toxic and stays in you body upwards of 30 years.
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With all this talk of sandblasting, acid dipping and sanding previously Cadmium plated parts it would be a good time to remind everyone that Cadmium is horribly toxic and stays in you body upwards of 30 years.
Is the 30 years guaranteed ? At my age it would be worth it.....
There's also Silicosis which occurs when one sandblasts with respiratory protection.
Restoration involves a whole lot of toxic chemicals, WEAR PROTECTION 100% of the time. I know it's a pain but I've seen too many body men suffer at the age when they retire.
You don't want to drive your Pagoda with the top down and an oxygen tank in the back seat.
Ron
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You don't want to drive your Pagoda with the top down and an oxygen tank in the back seat.
No need for a tank, They now make travel size. ::)
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Problem solved $115.00 from the MB classic center Ouch but I am happy they had it
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I ended-up purchasing the individual line through MB Classics web site parts portal Part # 127-070-14-33 Line #3 $111.86 I was able to locate the part number by signing on to the MB/ECP Database, then used that part number to Google search and up came a MB dealer with it in stock.
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mbazinet, I know this is an old string but I'm curious.. was the new injector line you received from MB Classics already yellow cad plated? Reason I ask, I just ordered a new #6 injection line (#127-070-17-33) through mercedespartscenter.com and I sure hope it'll be plated to match my other fuel lines.
Mercedespartscenter.com price was $116.80 + $10.94 for shipping (which is cheap considering it is being shipped from Germany).
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new fuel line arrived today and unfortunately, it wasn't plated,,,oh well..... :'(
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Was it bare steel?
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hello Pat,
yes, bare steel (pics attached).
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I have a whole bunch of injector lines hanging around the shop! how do you insert an image?
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Charles,
Just out of curiosity, how did you determine it is bare steel? I find it surprising that they would sell that with no plating at all. Don't think I have never seen a fitting that is sold by MB that wasn't plated. Not the correct yellow color for sure, just wonder if it is clear zinc (has a slight blue tint like hardware store bolts). I would think depending on when it was made, it would has some minor rust or corrosion if it was just bare steel.
If you dipped the part in a diluted 10% muriatic acid, it would fizzle if it has plated zinc on it. You can probably use Coca-Cola as well. But then you have destroyed the coating if it is indeed plated.
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hello Wallace,
sure looks like bare steel to me and I did note some corrosion under the sleeve on the injector end of the line (see pic) - nothing to be concerned about though.
The quality of the line was not what I would expect from a new MB part. I will definitely resurface the 'nipples' on both ends before I install.
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I did notice something like that on one of your previous pictures. However, that could be from when the line was plated and the fitting nut was at that position. The point being that zinc plate will not reach where there is a hidden space (between the fitting and the line). So such a spot has little or no plating protection. It would be the same issue if you plated the line yourself.
Hopefully that is the case and you won't have to plate or paint it.