Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Tomnistuff on January 08, 2014, 20:13:18
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I would like to replace my door sill rubber (or vinyl) strips and have discovered something strange.
The ribs on my old ones are flat-top ribs with 9 ribs per inch and run in an "across the car" direction. Authentic Classics sells repro sill rubber with the ribs running in a "car front-to-rear" direction. They show their repro rubber beside what they say is an original MB rubber strip with the ribs running in the same direction, HOWEVER, their original rubber strip also looks new and is shown on a MB packaging part number label. A "new" MB part is not necessarily the same as an "original" MB part. I've bought new parts from MB with original part numbers that are not like the original MB parts.
To get a one-piece sill rubber strip with "across the car" ribs, the roll from which it is cut would have to be at least 41 inches wide, since the rolls available today are extruded with the ribs running length-wise, not cross-wise. I imagine that was always the case. Most ribbed rolls available today are 36 inches wide and wider ones appear to be special order and VERY expensive.
I suppose it is possible that MB changed the direction of the ribs in order to use less expensive ribbed rubber rolls.
QUESTION: Does anyone here have a 230SL on which they are absolutely sure that the sill rubber strips are original from the factory? If yes, which direction do the ribs run? I suggest that it is possible that 250SLs or 280SLs are different than the original 230SLs. Can we verify original rib direction on several Pagodas of different years?
Tom Kizer
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Tom,
1965 230SL with rubber strip front to rear. Don't believe it has been replaced but cannot be 100% sure without being original owner ;)
Garry
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Tom, I've seen a lot of cars before but apparently not yours. I would think that ribs running across the car would stand out; it doesn't make any apparent practical sense, and surely doesn't make any design/style sense. I replaced the originals when my car was restored in 1999-2000, and both originals and OEM replacements at that time were running the length of the car; but then again, mine's a '69. If somewhere along the line, someone (PO? Restorer?) had a very wide roll, they'd use less of it across the car however...
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Like Garry's, front-to-back on my 1966 230SL, and these were the originals.
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If it matters, my '68 W111 originals are front to back.
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this is original
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I would specifically ask George at AC about this. He is a member of our group and I have found he works hard to make things right with every order.
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OK! I'm convinced. I'll buy some new ones with longitudinal ribs. For Dunkelblau (dark blue) paint, and dark blue leather, should the rubber strips be black?
Tom Kizer
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I believe there was no color choice for 230SL cars, only black (or very dark grey).
Perhaps others no more.
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I know more. Tan
An original 230 SL
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An original 230 SL
If that were original, it looks like the window winders were changed? Those look to be a later style (as was pointed out to me by Dave Gallon) like I once had, but I finally sourced more originals. Also, isn't the little vinyl padding supposed to match the interior color? Ditto for the door pull. If we call original original...
Prior to restoration, my car was in its shoddy, rusty and original condition. Here's a photo of the passenger door. Bamboo interior--door pull--and winder insert WITH wide original knob.
And while we are looking, black or dark gray (can't tell with decades of "age" all over them) sill mats with ribbing running front to back. :)
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Oh, the 230 SL is original, you can take it to the bank. In fact, the Classic Center owns it now. Window winders are the same as my all original interior early 1967 250 SL. The 230 SL pictured is a 1964, one owner, 40K+ miles. The black insert is also in its ashtray and the door pull is black. The car you pictured is a 280 door and I think they started matching inserts and handles later.
Attached pictures are of a 280 SL I worked on. Window winder similar to your picture and coordinated inserts and door pull as well as ashtray cover. BTW, what I fixed was the wrinkled lower corner of the door panel due to deteriorated backing behind the covering. Came out pretty nice, huh?
http://www.memory-motors.com/Show_Car.php?CAR_ID=136
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Does anyone offer the full range of colours that was available ?
MB and SLS only offers them in black.
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MB and SLS only offers them in black.
And interior bits are only in black, too--and have been for many years.
John--Good to know. When did they change the interior bits from all black regardless of interior color, to matching?
The photo I posted was my own car, prior to restoration; January '69 production.
The value of originality is real. The challenge is, the definition is being stretched as the value goes up. This is not always intentional, because parts and paint or whatever may have been changed 30, 40 or yes, even nearly 50 years ago on some 230s. Those changes look original, but are not. As Brian Peters (Motoring Investments) notes on one of his holy grail cars:
...mostly original cars are in a class by themselves. Forty plus year old cars which have essentially “time traveled” to the present with most of their parts and finishes intact are quite rare, more rare than most people suspect. This is because it takes someone who has seen many, many examples of the same model to develop the ability to look at a car and determine what is original and what was redone albeit redone very, very well. Or, redone a very long time ago (just because paint is faded and falling off does not mean that it is original).
I particularly like his last line. Memories fade over time, and when a car changes hands unless its documented provenance is included, it's a difficult task indeed to prove or claim originality. There are far more claims of originality that are realistically or practically possible. That's my opinion. A car with 40+ year old tires, belts, hoses, wires and essential electrical bits, all working? Possible yes, but bring a trailer, or don't drive it far.
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This is all very interesting.............our 66 230sl has dark blue leather,matching inserts in the handles and ashtray top and a rather dark blue rubber strip on the door sill. What thinks you?
Essell
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I have no idea when/where/why they offered matching or non-matching inserts. The factory was not always consistent either.
All I know, in addition to what Brian Peters said, is the provenance of the cars. I know my car is a 100% original interior save the recarpet on the door sills and the insulation I added under the floor mats. The rest is bone stock. I have receipts and documentation going back to 1971, it's 4 inches thick.
The 230 SL was owned by one owner in Milwaukee and always serviced by Lothar Altman, you may have heard of him. He knew the car in and out and until it was purchased by my friend (before Lothar died), and friend of the owner's son, and subsequently sold to Classic, nothing in the interior had been altered. Likewise there is a trove of documentation, the owner was a Mercedes junkie and had three of them. Had an original fire extinguisher, tiny thing, mounted in the trunk that I'd never seen.
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John,
a few years ago Manfred Luft compiled a list of color and trim options for the German Pagoda Club. He states that for the 230SL starting with VIN 012467 one could order a few specific colors for the head liner, carpet, rubber mats, the insert in the tunnel tray, under dash panels, crank and ashtray insert, visors, and on special request the seat belts. I assume the info is correct but it is unfortunate that he did not mention the rubber strips in the sill.
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Interesting. I would think the sill would be the same as the rubber mats, it's a full set. In the 230 SL pictures I posted the link to, the rubber mats and sills are both tan.
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Regarding the floor mats matching the door sill.............ours match in blue. Serial # is post 12K.
Essell
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Fullly agree with what Alfred said. That is identical what my memories are about with these changes.
The 1964 burgundy 230 SL John showed is exceptional! :o
(Almost) untouched 230ies are so rare, and thus pics of those are utmost helpful and valuable during the restoration processes of us poor 230ies owners.
Untouched and original 280ies (at least US version) seem to be out there plenty; at least Brian Peter seems to have poked into a hornet's nest throughout the last years. :D
Unbelievable how many "untouched" 280ies he found ... ??? ;)
Prior to restoration, my car was in its shoddy, rusty and original condition. Here's a photo of the passenger door. Bamboo interior--door pull--and winder insert WITH wide original knob.
Ah no. Almost. The window crank is clearly non-original; a later W123 replacement since the original /8 window cranks (that your car should have and certainly now has after your very proper and accurate restoration) have been NLA for a looong long time ... ;)
The explaining picture attached is taken from the SLS homepage. Very valuable info there.
Best,
Achim
(earlywindowcrankcollector)
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Dear Michael,
I really like the picture of your "Dornröschen-Schlaf" (= Sleaping Beauty) 280 when you found your uncle's car as a kind of "barn find"!
So beautiful, so untouched ... :D
I remember your story very well - 10 years ago, the restoration process, the color changes, your tranny problems, your former early-style taillights... :D
Very well done, indeed! Enjoy!
Best,
Achim
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my original early German 250SL has dark brown crank inserts and door pull. The in terior is tan and the door sill ribs are tan running front to rear. I got a few extra crank pads in junk yards in the 60's I only found dark brown, no tans. Tan is what I was hoping to find. I had a 250SE with tan interior and it too had dark brown trim.
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my original early German 250SL has dark brown crank inserts and door pull. The in terior is tan and the door sill ribs are tan running front to rear.
Gary,
Sounds all correct to me. :D :D ;D
Any pics?
All best
Achim
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Its too embarrassingly mid multi project on the interior to take pic yet. I started optimizing the FIB (turning the screws in the FIP while driving, watching the vacuum and F/A ratios. What a brain teaser this is. As I'm opening the FIP a lot, I have oil all over the car. happy to say I'm close within a few clicks on everything, but very frustrated with too rich when cruzing at high vacuum. I can't find a way to reduce the richness below the 10s. But as soon as I load it to 300mm/hg, the ratio comes right in the 12 - 13.
Sorry for Jacking the Topic.
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My late 230SL has brown (same as upholstery) crank handle inserts and ashtray cover. The passenger door pull is black or dark gray. The door sill rubber is lighter brown.