Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: hauser on September 08, 2008, 19:05:47
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There is a set of five aluminum disk wheels on ebay. These are the type mentioned here before to reduce unprung weight.
usual disclaimer applies
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-230SL-250SL-280SL-W113-RARE-OE-14-rims_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6755QQihZ009QQitemZ190250499980QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
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I saw that auction also and wondered about it. So are these a big deal?
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Actually they are a big deal. The weight difference between the aluminum and a stock wheel is about 20lbs. The set on ebay is the 5.5x14 but 6x14 are more desireable. Finding the wider wheels has been quite difficult. There are a few of us that have switched to the aluminum disk wheels.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6010922069310307017&hl=en
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7297334368520143122&hl=en
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The start price [on that ebay listing] is outrageous. I'm not saying it's not correct, just outrageous (like so many things today).
I saw literally, a MOUNTAIN of 5.5" wheels (which, BTW, are perfectly usable with standard and correct tire sizes) for each 6" rim I found.
I have a 5.5" as the "5th" in my trunk; the 6" are on the car.
Scoot, reducing unsprung weight is the holy grail of handling. Or, at least ONE of them. There is very little one can do to reduce unsprung weight short of wheel changing. These wheels save 80# of unsprung weight on the car, and another 20# of sprung weight in the trunk.
The guy selling them makes it sound like they were from this car, as some kind of rare option; not so. (Another seller exploiting and capitalizing on something, anything for a Pagoda.) These wheels are from a DIESEL. They are from 1977-1983 diesels before they went to full alloys that did not take a wheel cover. The underpowered diesels needed to reduce all weight!
If you look around, you might find an entire diesel car with these wheels for a pittance; put on a set of steel wheels, and resell it!
Speaking of exploiting Mercedes...has anyone noticed these sales?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=300255331843&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT&ih=020
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Michael,
quote:
I have a 5.5" as the "5th" in my trunk; the 6" are on the car
Out of curiosity, did you have to use longer lug bolts with the alloys?
naj
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quote:
Originally posted by naj
Out of curiosity, did you have to use longer lug bolts with the alloys?
naj
No, regular lug bolts.
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quote:
Originally posted by mdsalemi
These wheels save 80# of unsprung weight on the car, and another 20# of sprung weight in the trunk.
The guy selling them makes it sound like they were from this car, as some kind of rare option; not so. These wheels are from a DIESEL. They are from 1977-1983 diesels before they went to full alloys that did not take a wheel cover.
So why aren't we all replacing our 113 wheels with 77-83 MB Diesel aluminum wheels? Sounds like a good idea to me... Do the aluminum wheels work with the hubcap / trim ring combination? And are they 5 1/2 " or 6" or both?
thanks
Scott
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We are not all replacing our wheels because they are too hard to find. The 6" width are very hard to find; it took me over 2 years.
They were available in both a 5.5x14 and a 6x14. Start scouring the junkyards around the country and the dealers, etc. and you'll see just how hard they are to find...
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quote:
Originally posted by scoot
... Do the aluminum wheels work with the hubcap / trim ring combination? ....
:?:
Michael and/or Hauser,
I had the same question and was hoping you would be able to answer Scott's question.
So, do the split hub caps and beauty rings from a 230SL/250SL fit these alu wheels, either the 6" or the 5.5" wide ones??
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Alfred, you will have drill the wheels to accept clips fot the center hubcap. The beeauty ring will not need any mods. You should to able to find photos of the clips on the 190sl Group website.
Here's a picture of "Pea Soup" with the aluminum wheels.
http://www.190slgroup.com/pic_stry/yr_1998/jul98_5.jpg
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Alfred,
I answered Scott--offline when he queried. The reality is I do not have, and have never had any experience with the 2-piece wheel covers, or "hub caps" and "beauty rings" that they are often called. So I'm only guessing.
I think that wheels that accomodate these are a different pressing than more modern wheels; they don't have the bulges, etc. that make fitting these things easy. As Hauser points out, some drilling is necessary. Goodness, if you find a set and start drilling, make sure you get it all right. You've got one chance. They'll look very goofy if you don't, particularly as you are driving...
I believe that MB went to the one piece wheel covers somewhere at or around the end of 250SL and beginning of 280SL production 1967-1968? Since these light weight wheels originated on diesel sedans 5 years after production of the W113's ended you can be sure they are of the later style.
Aside from this "new" use for W113 owners (driving up the price and the scarcity) Jim Villers pointed out that vintage 190SL racers have used them for some time. So, somebody must have figured out a good way of fitting 2-piece 190SL wheel covers. You can't really tell much from a photo as to what kind of wheels are fitted.
Here's a close up of one of the wheels; there is a before and after. The before shows what you are likely to find as I did, at a junkyard. Then I had it refinished and POWDER COATING (sorry thelews but paint does not belong on wheels). The wheels in their natural state will have a dashed silver line around the bolt pattern if 5.5"; and a solid silver line around the bolt pattern if 6.0"; that's the easy way to tell them apart at a junkyard. You can see that the before photo shows the solid line indicating a 6" wheel.
(http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/mdsalemi/200891283626_6%20Inch%20Aluminum%20Wheel%20Smaller%20Raw%202.jpg)
Here's the "Before" of a 6" wheel in junkyard condition.
(http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/mdsalemi/20089128376_2007%2005%2029%20001%20Small%202.jpg)
Here's the "After" of the same wheel, powder coated.
BTW, I offered a set of two wheels refinished for sale as you see, at my cost a year or two ago. Only ONE group member inquired in a timely fashion and bought them. No, I don't make a market in these wheels and I have no more sources. I started looking the day I got back from PUB 2005, and it took me until May 2007 to complete the set. I had picked up a few; had them refinished, and was looking for more when I came across a full set of 4. That made my other 2 available, and those are what I sold. I then took my 5th 6" wheel, destined for the spare, and as a gesture, traded it to another member for a 5.5". He needed just one more to complete a set. Nothing wrong with the 5.5" in the trunk. It's all about networking people!
ONE LAST THING: as Gernold (SL-Tech) pointed out to me, you really should have special wheel cover clips to prevent marring the soft aluminum of the wheels. The standard clip is all metal. There is another clip (Gernold has them) that has a soft cushion on it so the wheel is not scratched when you take off and put on the wheel covers.
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The wheel is bent.
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quote:
Originally posted by thelews
The wheel is bent.
No, the wheel is not "bent". The outer rim-edge, and outer rim only of the wheel is bent. Has no effect on much of anything, and I disclosed that fully to the buyer. The integrity of the wheel was not compromised.
Points out an issue with these lightweight wheels, particularly those in the front: hit a curb with a little gusto, and what you see here on this rim is what you will get. Yes, the matching one had the same issue. PO either backed into something or pulled into something.
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quote:
Originally posted by mdsalemi
quote:
Originally posted by thelews
The wheel is bent.
No, the wheel is not "bent". The outer rim-edge, and outer rim only of the wheel is bent. Has no effect on much of anything, and I disclosed that fully to the buyer. The integrity of the wheel was not compromised.
Points out an issue with these lightweight wheels, particularly those in the front: hit a curb with a little gusto, and what you see here on this rim is what you will get. Yes, the matching one had the same issue. PO either backed into something or pulled into something.
Oh.
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Hello Michael and Hauser,
thanks for the comments. Looking at the info on the 190SL site I agree that mounting the the clip holders on these wheels is nothing for the faint - unless you like gambling with your money.