Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: SLOpagoda on June 24, 2008, 15:29:37
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Hello, it`s me Jaka again and I`m still hunting for one 280SL, that I want to find so much for me.
I`m really sorry because I`m bothering you with this my 280SL`s but I hope that you understand how it is if you fell in this MB passion and you really wants to have 280SL.
I must say that I`m looking on web every day for more than 2 hours just to find one suitable 280SL for me.
So I found one interesting 280SL, this time on ebay. It is not a nice car, but it`s even not so bad, it`s solid, original but it needs some care and attention for sure. It has some bubles on paint where the fender are, but for sure I would repaint the whole car, so it doesn`t matter to me so much.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/27.jpg)
I allredy talked with a seller and he desribed me the car and we also negotiated a little bit about the car-17000$ and I think that is quiet a fair price. What do you think?
Here is a link to the add:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110264773475&fromMakeTrack=true
Is maybe someone living close to Albany in New York, because I would be very glad if someone would be prepared to do inspection for me because Slovenia is far away from USA and it`s a little bit hard for me to take a look in person:(
I would be very grateful if someone would be prepared to take a look on the cr and give me his opinion, of course I would pay this. So please let me know if someone maybe knows someone that would be prepared to take a look on the car.
Thanks a lot again and please give me also some opinions if it`s possible and please give me some help in buying or not this 280SL.
Jaka
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Jaka, first of all make sure that the car has a title. The part where he says that he's selling it for his neighbor seems a little suspect to me. Why doesn't the neighbor/owner sell the car himself? I know you are not concerned about the bubbling paint because you are planning on repainting, but as you know bubbling paint means rust through. So be prepared for major rust repair. Also, cars in Albany New York rust a lot so who knows what else is lingering under that paint job. Buying a car from across the seas is risky. I had a friend in Greece buy a convertible mustang from the US that was advertised as a museum car, full rotiserie restoration, detailed underbody etc. When he received the car, not only was the underbody not detailed but it literally had rust holes with no attempt at cover up. The whole front end was sectioned from another car with bad welds etc. Be careful and don't expect much for $17,000.
Dimitri
Dimitri
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The northeastern US is known as THE RUST BELT. Most older cars that were driven even during a handful of winters experience rust and rot. Any car I looked at here would not pass the rust through test. I ended up purchasing my car in California.
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Not too bad looking of a car, from the pictures provided. If a Group Member is not available, then perhaps someone knows of a good specialist in 1960's M-B cars in the area. I don't know how you would pay for an inspection, but be sure to get one from someone.
Regarding rust, I bought my car locally here in Ohio - part of the RUST BELT. Yes, it does have rust, but I don't believe any major rust.
1966 - 1976, Car was in Italy
1976 - 1979, Car was in California
1979 - 2000, Car was in Ohio
2000 - present, Car is in Ohio with me as owner.
Each car is unique. Just because it is now in New York State does not mean it was always there.
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Can anyone tell what color code that is? (seller hasn't responded yet...)
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quote:
Originally posted by waqas
Can anyone tell what color code that is? (seller hasn't responded yet...)
I think it might be code 291H for dark olive green.
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Where is the picture without the tunk mat? If the trunk wasn't rusty they would have a picture of it.
You can see some rust spots and what may be flaking undercoating on the underbody photo. Ask for a more detailed photo of both sides of the underbody close to the footwell and further back.
If the fender lips are rusty...an area that would get more cleaning than hard to reach spots...how rusty are the wheel wells or behind the headlights?
How about a picture of the floor under the carpet?
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Dseretakis, yes you are true, there can be a lot of lies when you are buying the car from the other side of the world and you can`t do nothing about it, but you know sometimes you have to risk a little bit and if you have some luck you can get a nice car. But for SURE, I would REALLY REALLY want if someone would be prepared to inspect the car for me.
Yes in that part of USA there is a lot of moisture and I know that cars can be very rusty, but I still hope that this isn`t.
Seattle Jerry, thanks for all those great questions that I need to ask the owner, I will ask him if he can maybe take some pictures of those areas also. Really thanks again.
You know I`m 20 years old student, with too much Pagoda passion, so I hope that you understand in what position am I. I really really want to have a car that can be driven for a season or two and then I would do a frame off restoration like the car deserves. But I really don`t ahve budget of 25000$, so I need to find something cheap and there go from there on.
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Thanks for all those opinions for now, I`m again really grateful for all your effort, I realy don`t know what to say what I would do if there would not be that forum, everything would be a little bit more dificult for me. We must figure out also Mercedes forum for our Mercedes SLovenia.
As I said it would be really great if someone knows someone who would be prepared to inspect the car for me, but a litle problem is taht the auction will be ended in 5 days, so I need to be quick. So please tell me where can I take a look for some members that are near Albany? Does maybe someone know someone?
I decided to upload also some more pictures that you will be able to see them directly over here and like I said any opinion it`s great for me.
From few meters away car looks really nice, but i`m sure that paint is far away from nice conditon, what do you think?
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/3-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/4.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/6-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/7-1.jpg)
Actually I like this color very much.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/8.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/9.jpg)
Here are those paint bubles and probably also rust through area, or du you think that there is any option that this is just rust under paint or it is for sure rust through area?
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/10.jpg)
Undercarriage don`t look so bad from this photo, do you think it`s still original or it was undercoated later?
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/11.jpg)
The doors seems to me nice
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/12-1.jpg)
Engine compartment is far away from really nice, but it seems really orginal. Seller said that the is running srong and nice but that would perhaps need some tuning. It is a matching number car, so I must say that I like that.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/16-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/17-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/18-1.jpg)
Here is also a picture of a VIN plate, the car has all documents and clear title, that is nce to hear.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/15-1.jpg)
And here are some pictures of the interior, it looks decent, but of course I will have to put some effort also in making it nicer. But it is original and it fits nice I think.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/20.jpg)
It also have a rare back seat, that is very useful if more then one girl wants to drive with me, so two girls and me, one more plus to the car:)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/14-1.jpg)
The seats like decent, but they are not new of course, it would be great if they are still original.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/19-1.jpg)
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/13-1.jpg)
I also wonder if there is any rust in the trunk area, where the spare tire is mounted, so I have to ask about that also.
(http://i117.photobucket.com/albums/o47/jaka2119/21.jpg)
So what do you think about those pictures and please if someone really knows for someone near ALany that would be prepared to inspect the car it would be just great. Where to look if some members are near Albany or New York.
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Jaka,
If you need a closeby MB person to evaluate this 280,call Neil Dubey of Star Mototr in Endicott NY. He knows the old ones as well as anybody. I knew him when I played with 600 and 6.3. Also sold him my 3.5 coupe. starmotorsny.com 607-754-4272 Keith
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Jaka, you will ultimately spend a lot more than $25,000 on this car if you restore it - even if you do it yourself. Some people like the challenge of restoring an old car and are prepared for it. I know since I'm one of those people. Just prepare for the worst.
quote:
Originally posted by SLOpagoda
Dseretakis, yes you are true, there can be a lot of lies when you are buying the car from the other side of the world and you can`t do nothing about it, but you know sometimes you have to risk a little bit and if you have some luck you can get a nice car. But for SURE, I would REALLY REALLY want if someone would be prepared to inspect the car for me.
Yes in that part of USA there is a lot of moisture and I know that cars can be very rusty, but I still hope that this isn`t.
Seattle Jerry, thanks for all those great questions that I need to ask the owner, I will ask him if he can maybe take some pictures of those areas also. Really thanks again.
You know I`m 20 years old student, with too much Pagoda passion, so I hope that you understand in what position am I. I really really want to have a car that can be driven for a season or two and then I would do a frame off restoration like the car deserves. But I really don`t ahve budget of 25000$, so I need to find something cheap and there go from there on.
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quote:
Originally posted by Desertpagoda
If you need a closeby MB person to evaluate this 280,call Neil Dubey of Star Mototr in Endicott NY.
From their web page, it looks like a nice shop! They are about 2.5 hour drive from Albany. I recommend Jaka contact them.
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You can order an independent inspection on Ebay for $100. Just click on link. Might provide some additional protection with Ebay warranty. Make sure they put on lift and check the frame rails where the suspension attaches. The seats look like they have been recovered in vinyl but the headrests are original.
How much would one of these go for in Germany?
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Did you go for it?? I just went for a look and it is listed as no longer available.
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I just woke up and I take a look on ebay and you can`t believe the car listing is not anymore available, so I think that this means that the car is sold, I was talking with the seller yesterday and he said to me that yes, he is interested in selling it for 17000$. You can`t believe how unhappy I`m again. As soon as I found something suitable for me it is gone in few hours, just because I`m too far away.
So I have almoust allready organize inspection allready, but on the end it`s again nothing from the deal:( I have contacted Perry who lives near ALbany and he was very kind and prepared to make an inspection for me, so I`m still very grateful also for his effort and willingnes to help.
Again I`m without Pagoda, I just don`t know what to do... Now I`m looking for a Pagoda for more than a year now and I just don`t know where to look also. Everyday I go through all Pagoda club sites in USA, Mercedes benz clubs, Ebay new listings and some more but I`m still not able to find it.
I was buying James Stern`s 280SL also with tht car I didn`t have luck because one man from Great Britain who sold it to Dubai was faster than me, actually just because I wanted to see some more pictures of the undercarriage.
You can`t believe but sometimes I`m too slow just because I would like to see few more pictures:( So what can I do? DO you have any idea where I can also take a look?
Please help me because I really don`t know what to do and where to look for those Pagoda. But this Pagoda passion is with each losen cr stronger and stronger, I hope you understand me:)
Is there really anyone who don`t know for a Pagoda which is for sale for reasonable price?
I think that I`m really out of luck on this Mercedes hunting:(
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Please do not feel bad about losing out on this particular Pagoda. To my eye, it had the signs of a mediocre car, at best.
You are doing the right thing by proceeding carefully.
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Doug et al. Looking at the current market and seeing what's avaialable I think in that price range he won't be able to get something that won't take quite a bit of money to make it acceptable. Nice cars that need minor cosmetics mechanicals are going to be quite a bit more expensive. I think he needs to define what he is looking for- a driver that can be used until its useless is one thing, when it comes to restorable or restored cars the age old rule is to buy something thats already been done and pay up front, its always a lot less expensive
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Jaka, take your time. Pagodas are not that rare. Another one will come up. If your not sure about a particular car, your not sure about it for a reason. I personally was not thrilled with the looks of that car. It probably had a lot more covered up rust than you would have wanted to deal with. You might want to locate a few pagodas that interest you in one geographic area in the US and then come see them all at one time.
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Peter et al,
All I can do is to comment on the particular examples he's posted. I'm not sure what Jaka's budget is, but if it's under $20K I would suggest he look for either a 230 or 250 SL. He's still going to get something rough in that price range, but in the current market, chances are his budget will go a bit further with the earlier cars.
Finding a good value is not just an exercise in moving quickly once you find a prospect. It's also a test of your ability to search in places where other people are not looking. Local newspapers are a great resource and many of those are online now and not necessarily linked to larger classified sites. Also, don't just look outside LA, San Francisco, NY, etc. Look in regions that are a little unexpected.
Keep us posted on your progress. Remember that you're competing with professionals, so you have to be a little creative. Ultimately, you'll be rewarded for your diligence.
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quote:
Originally posted by SLOpagoda
Do you have any idea where I can also take a look?
I hope you're looking here:
http://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/carsforsale/mercedes_benz/
And you should subscribe to this printed newsletter. I have seen over 100 pagodas for sale in several issues.
http://slmarket.com/news/
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Thanks again for all your answers, I really appreciate your help and I must say that I`m really happy that I descovered this site, because it`s one of the most useful things for Pagodas;)
Yes I know that I have little budget, but I`m 20 years old I`m studying and actually all money that I get from scholarship and when I`m doing some work in the summer I`m saving that I will be able to buy one 280SL for me, or even 230SL/250SL, but for sure I would like to have 280SL the most.
Yes I think that I will have to calm down a little bit and try to slowly found something suitable for me. Actually on craiglist I have found several time something in my price range, but everything was there just for few hours. I just can`t forget one 280SL pagoda that was seliing from one museum for 6500$, it was really nice car, without rust... Immediately when I call seller he said to me, that one dealer came in 1 hour and buy it. But that`s not all then I saw this car on ebay and it was sold for 16500$, for sure I will remember this one and james Stern`s beauty that was in our sale section the most:(
quote:
Originally posted by Douglas
Peter et al,
All I can do is to comment on the particular examples he's posted. I'm not sure what Jaka's budget is, but if it's under $20K I would suggest he look for either a 230 or 250 SL. He's still going to get something rough in that price range, but in the current market, chances are his budget will go a bit further with the earlier cars.
Finding a good value is not just an exercise in moving quickly once you find a prospect. It's also a test of your ability to search in places where other people are not looking. Local newspapers are a great resource and many of those are online now and not necessarily linked to larger classified sites. Also, don't just look outside LA, San Francisco, NY, etc. Look in regions that are a little unexpected.
Keep us posted on your progress. Remember that you're competing with professionals, so you have to be a little creative. Ultimately, you'll be rewarded for your diligence.
Douglas thank you very much also for your answer, yes you are true my budget is below 20000$ and I want to get as much nice car for that car, but of course I would restore it then after a season like it deserves.
Can you maybe give me some tips of where to look for this local newspapers that I would be able to take a look? Do you amybe know for some links to sites like those?
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Rwmastell thanks for your answer also, yes, I`m looking on Hemmings, but most of those cars are sold by dealers tho have really highest prices for cars.
But this second link that you mentioned: And you should subscribe to this printed newsletter. I have seen over 100 pagodas for sale in several issues.
http://slmarket.com/news/
I don`t understand where to look for classified section, so do I need to subscribe on it? Is maybe there some of you members that are allready subscribed on this newsletter and would be prepared to say to me if there is something good for me in classifieds?
Thanks for all of your opinions and help and I hope that you aren`t mad that I`m always making a new post when I found a new interesting cr for sale.
Thanks,
Jaka
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I like John Olson and his SL Market Letter, but I wouldn't subscribe to it for the Classifieds, particularly not in your price range.
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quote:
Originally posted by SLOpagoda
http://slmarket.com/news/
I don`t understand where to look for classified section, so do I need to subscribe on it? Is maybe there some of you members that are allready subscribed on this newsletter and would be prepared to say to me if there is something good for me in classifieds?
Yes, you must subscribe to it and read it on paper, not on-line. From what I remembers, the editor (or his staff) looks for classified ads in many locations and collects them in their one publication. They typically remove an advertisement from their list after just a couple issues because they assume the cars are sold after a short time.
Also, they print price trends of actual sale prices (auctions and some private sales). They print some stories or informational articles. This publication covers ALL the SL line, from 1954(?) to present, but most material and information is on the older models.
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Again I found another 280SL for 12000$, so if anyone will have some time to look at the pictures and give me his opinion I would be very grateful of course. The car of course has rust and definitely needs new paint job.
Please give me your opinions, here is a link:
http://www.10-kproductions.com/280sl.htm
Thanks again for all your effort.
Jaka
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What happened to the car in Ontario? Was it sold or is it still around?
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My opinion
Run. If you don't, you are a far braver man than I
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I actually think it's worth taking a closer look at this one.
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Jaka:
It's not easy to judge a car from photos but the $12K car looks like it has a complete engine, the interior is not bad, the body looks fairly straight.
Some questions might be the condition of the floors, the truck floor, and other rust areas...how does the engine run? Needs paint and a windshield at least and probably more...but it might be an OK buy if the price were low enough.
May be worth a closer look by someone near the car. It will take some work but might be a reasonable project if it hasn't been rusted out and if the engine is basically sound...not all danger areas are shown in the photos.
A lower counteroffer price might be accepted after you are satisfied that the car is within your budget and your skill zone.
Richard M, NYC (defintitely not expert at evaluating a car.)
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Hi,
I agree with Douglas.
That's the most interesting car you've come up with so far in my opinion. No quick makeup put on to hide the defects here. Looks pretty virgin and original to me. If the panel gaps are good and there's not too much serious rust, this could be a great restoration candidate.
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Thanks for all those kind answers and opinions again. Here is also the text of the add:
the car is still available, the min bid is $10500.00. this is a collectors car. ive seen totally restored ones online for 85k$ the car still runs and drives.the hard top comes off, the soft top has deteriorated and there is a crack in the windshield. automatic tranny, 6 cyl. there is spot rust but no major rust in the floor panels and in the trunk, which is what everyone asks me. you can find over 40 pics at this link, just copy and past it. there are also pics of invoices of $3000.00 of repair already done to the car. this is a restoration car for collectors, not a car to buy and just drive around.
The car is located in Las Vegas, so do we have some members that are located near Las Vegas also? Yes I also think that car could be a nice project, but of course if we compare it with JAmes Stenrn`s 280SL that he was selling in classifieds section I soon can realized that James`s 280SL was really a hack of a deal:)
Thanks again,
Jaka
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I`m still waiting for some pictures of the last 280SL we`ve been talking about, because there is some rust on the undercarriage, so I will let you know when I get some more pictures.
Now I again found also something interesting on EBAY, so if anyone will have some time it would be good to hear some opinions about that also. I was allready talking with owner about the car, it`s a really nice car with new interiour, new top and so on. Ok it`s not perfect. He is asking around 20000$, so what do you think, is the car worth so much or it isn`t?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200236190325&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123
If someone will have some time to give me a tip I would be grateful again.
Thanks,
Jaka
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Gee, I was in Las Vegas only a few weeks ago!
From the photos and considering prices, I like the Alaska/Nevada car better than that most recent Ebay car.
Jaka, have you checked the cost of shipping and importing to Slovenia? If you are on a tight budget, you don't want nasty surprises. Why not check around Belgium, Holland, France as well? This you can visit and manage better than the US (although with the US dollar as low as it is today, Pagodas would be relatively cheap in the US currently).
Maybe you should take a break for a month or two and then see what you want to do. There will always be plenty of Pagodas for sale, including rougher ones, and a good deal will present itself sooner or later.
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Here's one worth looking into. (I have no afiliation with seller)
http://www.cascadiaclassic.com/
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Jaka,
I understand your passion to buy a 280SL ... and reason for your need to buy one at a relatively low price ... <USD 20k. However, there are several decisions that should or will most probably influence your interest in a given car besides the price... how much rust damage, etc.
Some questions, for example:
Does it matter if the car's been in an accident and it now has unmatched numbers?
If the engine's not "running" but everything else is reasonably sound, does that matter?
As you are clearly aware already, in general, the lower the price the more issues with the car .... and the converse... in general, the better the condition of the car the higher it's price.
What this means is that a drivable, street restoration car is going to cost you more than you're willing to pay at present. This therefore means that purchases of parts you'll need for restoration or just usability will force expenditures beyond the price you pay for the car.
If there's body damage/rust, upholstery, chrome pieces or pieces that require rechroming, instruments that don't function, etc. all will cost labor and parts.
Which brings me to the next issue and questions you need to consider carefully before you plunk out $15k or so for your passion.
Do you have a spare garage where you can take the car apart as necessary or a place where this can be done without forcing you to move the car for extended periods?
Do you have tools and a place where some of the disassembly and / or repairs can be done by yourself or with help of a friend?
Do you have any experience with mechanical aspects of cars and engines? and other mechanics on a car?
No matter how you cut it some things you'll have to pay for out of pocket ---- and a likely total cost to get the car to a reasonably reliable driver without spending a cent on paint or interior upholstary, etc. is in the range of $5k - $8k. Add any body/paint/chrome work and you're adding another $5k - $8k minimum. (in Yugoslavia). If you need genuine replacement parts, add more.
So assuming the lower estimates, you'll be adding upwards of at the minimum USD 10k to a purchase price --- not to mention tranport from US to Yugoslavia. The more issues with the car (say one for $12k) the more you'll be spending later. No matter how you cut it, you'll be spending at least $25k (US) for a driver with some degree of reliability... and the more you bring the car back to it's original condition or close to it, the closer the total price will approach $35k - $40k.
So, is your issue with low price one of cash flow... i.e. you only have $x to spend NOW... but will have $y later (whether to spend on purchase or to spend on restoration)? Are you able and with space & tools to do a lot of the labor effort (dis-assembly, assembly, engine mechanical work) yourself or are you forced to farm it out to vendors in your area?
Here, for example is a 280SL from a reputable California MB restorer/dealer who takes cars on consignment or buys them, fixes them up to a given degree, then offers them for sale, as well as offers space on his website for other sellers to advertise their cars. There's one now on his site for $15k... but it has several deficiencies which is why the price is $15k.... it's a driver though.
It's in your price range, but with deficiencies (honest MB classic car dealers will bring out all the issues related to mechanical, cosmetic, and restoration issues. In particular, this one as no hardtop available, and numbers don't match... among some other things that limit the ultimate restored value of this car. I bring it to your attention only to discover what issues you are willing to pay for or not pay for in a 280SL?
http://www.oursl.com/listing-forms/inventory.htm
http://www.oursl.com/listings.php?op=showads&modelid=7
http://www.oursl.com/listing-forms/listings-det.php?op=showdet&aid=2431
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quote:
Originally posted by Kgear
Here's one worth looking into. (I have no afiliation with seller)
http://www.cascadiaclassic.com/
I like this car. It's original and seems to be well represented. This is the type of car you should seek.
I know what its like to be passionate about buying classic cars. But you need to be very careful. You can end up burying yourself alive in the wrong car.
Good luck.
Peter Perry
1965 230SL