Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: n/a on September 13, 2003, 09:00:38
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If my budget allows me next year, I would consider buying a second antique car (yes, maybe one day I will own a modern car... :D ).
I am curious to see what other car (antique or sports) SL club owners have in their garage and which other club they would belong to.
Are they Mercedes freaks or just automobile freaks..???
I have seen w113 owners with 280SE, 190SL, etc as well owners with Porsche or Jaguars, etc.
(but the worst I have seen had a 280SL, a 450SL, a 280SE conv. 3.5l, a 600, a 280SEL 3.5l sedan, a Delage D8, an Aston Martin V8 Vantage, a Lola (that won LeMans..), a BB512 and a 328 GTS)...and a higher budget than me.. :)
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
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My other oldtimers were (don't have them anymore) 2 Triumph Spitfires (1967 and 1971), a Mini Cooper, a 1971 Jaguar XJ6, a late sixties Plymouth Fury, a '66 Volvo Amazon and actually my first ever car was a 196X Alfa Romeo 1750 GTV which I bought for $300 in 1978 and most likely the oil that it leaked is still in the street I lived on back then ... The Jaguar lost its brakes one day and we had to make like the Flintstones, open the door and use our feet on the pavement! The Spitfires saw the most use, both made it to the French Riviera and back (don't ask how, amazing what even 19-year old students can do with some basic tools and shoelaces). A fun moment was driving top-down in the Mk4 Spitfire along the port in Monte Carlo, and having a very enthusiastic gentleman wave at us - from his top-down Rolls Royce. I could go on and on. One day I would LIKE to own a Ferrari Daytona Coupe (365 GTB4) but I don't think this is in my future for some time to come.
Cees Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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got a 62 bug ragtop and a few old vespa's
1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
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300SEL6.3, Ferrari Mondial, 98 Mini-Cooper, plus the 113 I'm buying. Would like: S3 Flying Spur Bentley, Porsche 904 (a replica- I can't possibly ever afford the real thing), and, most of all, to finish the GT40 I'm building....
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Fabrice:
Several Pagodas owners I know also own vintage Mustangs from 1965/66. I have owned three 1966 Mustangs at one time or other. They have a classic look that never seems to age...convertibles, hard tops, and fastbacks to suit every taste with hundreds of options and conbinations possible...very easy to maintain and self repair...most engine problems are cured by an inexpensive replacement bolt-on part...replacement parts are readily available, many parts dealers with virtually all the parts needed to build an entire car from available parts...and most parts are about 90% less costly than Pagoda parts...
Take a look at www.panix.com/~rmadison
Richard M
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5 cars i would love to own:
1) 280 SL (actively pursuing at the moment with the great help from Doug Kim...thanks Doug)
2) Porsche Carrera RS or 911 S Targa (early seventies)
3) BMW 3.0 CSi (1971 or 1972)
4) Ferrari Dino 246 GTS (1970 or 1971)
5) Jaguar E-Type Series 1 (early sixties)
This this how close I came in real life (actually owned):
1) 1974 Alfa Romeo 2000 GTV (Got it for $2500 while in College in Maryland....drained my bank account, never started when it rained).
2) 1972 BMW 2002 tii (Got it for $1500 while in grad school in Washington DC...this car was so rusty the shocks almost came out of the rear speakers [:0].
3) 1972 Pontiac Grand Prix (This car was a rocket....got it for $400 while in College in Madison, WI).
Mo
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I owned several antique cars, at the time of my ownership they were just old. Wish I knew then what I know now.
Here's the list:
VW Beetle (sadly double back window was replaced by single one)
BMW 3.0CS (California model)
Mercedes 230 (sedan)
Wishlist:
Porsche 356
Ford Mustang
Jaguar Mark II
Gerhard
1965 230SL
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I am presently searching for a W113 280SL and have a 1969 MGC GT (same power etc. as the 250SL but not the quality - nor the price!!!) and a 1969 Mini Moke. If I go back to the classics (not antiques, please) I have owned, they includes Cannon trials cars in the 50's and 60's, a Mini Cooper S, a Lotus Elite with Mechamatic auto box, purchased from Jim Clark, a 3.8 Mk II, a Caterham 7 and a Porsche 930 - the 3.3 ltr turbo. As always happens in our youth, it was usually necessary to sell the present car to buy the next one. It is a sad reflection on today's car values that if I had held on to them all in the state I bought them and sold at today's values, I still wouldn't have enough money to buy my dream car - a 6 1/2 ltr Speed Six Bentley.
George Simpson
Cognac, France
1969 MGC GT for social rallies
1969 Mini Moke for collecting the baguettes
Wanabee 280SL owner
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Sorry for the semantic confusion between antique and classic, but in my first language (French), they are all called "collection" cars!!
I hear you George on the Speed six!!! what a dream it would be (love your login name, by the way...any deals for us on old Cognacs???? ;) )
If only I could buy the 1936 Delage D8 from my friend, convertible, coach I beleive from Chapron.
I am seriously considering a 911 2.0 or 2.2 from 67 to 69 (more chrome than post 70's), but would look at a 280sel 3.5 or 6.3l, or a 450sel 6.9l, or even look at Aston Martin DBS V8 - but afraid of the maintenance cost - or a Ferrari 308 GT4 by Bertone, a style that I like more and more!!
I like the 190SL but think it is overvalued given the low power.. :(
I would consider buying together with a friend a 330 gt 2+2.
Now the dream cars, Bentley Speed 6, Bentley 4l 1/4, Delage D8, Delahaye 135, Talbot Lago, Hispano Suiza, Bugatti type 57, Aston DB4, Facel Vega HK 500, and so on!!! No lack of ideas there!!!
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
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we've had a variety of classic saabs, a triumph tr-6 (1974), the 1964 230sl that got sold to fund the 1966 230sl we have now...we also still have the award winning 1967 saab sonett II, #43 of 258 that were built....plans are for a ferrari dino 246gts, probably 70 or 71, I'd like to find one of the 50 or so saab preproduction turbo test cars of 1977, and a porsche 911, probably early 70's vintage....but first we need to get the barn ready for the storage and maintenance...work begins soon, picking up the lift next week.
-Lewis
'66 230 sl 113042-10-016238
67 saab sonett II #43 of 258
99 saab 9-5
00 saab 9-3 viggen conv
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I have a 1964 230SL, at this moment underging full restoration. I have owned the car since 1988. The previous owner had bought it whilst on holiday in the UK and brought it back to New Zealand on her return. It was UK new and, unfortunately, subjected to the salt that Poms spread on their roads during winter. We have no such problem here.
Does this group have a register of cars? Mine is 113042 20 006498
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quote:
Originally posted by Barry
...Does this group have a register of cars? Mine is 113042 20 006498
Hi Barry,
Yes, you can add your car here: http://www.sl113.org/data/carreg/show_table.asp
Try to enter the chassis number and year like the other cars. In that way you can order them by chassis or year through the bottoms above the table.
Regards,
Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
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I run a '65 220 SEb coupe which gives me the same body shape as the mighty 280 but at a lower cost - it is also handy to cannibalise for the odd common part for the Pagoda! I also risk the occasional outing in a 1948 Rover P3, but it's more show than go. The wish list? There's not enough bandwith here!
kns
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1965 220SEb (w111) white (finnie) & 1972 300SEL 4.5 (w109) green in addition to beloved 1965 230 sl (w113); all three get horrible mileage. Now, which parts are interchangeable? None...? :?:
LFrank
Washington DC
65 230 sl - auto
DB334/Hellblau
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Dont have any other old cars at the moment, just my '64 230SL. My wish list would go on forever but in reality I hope to own over the next couple of years, a 1959 Caddy Coupe De Ville, a W111/112 3.5 Coupe and possibly an early Mustang !
If I was let I'd have a 3.5 Convertible, a 600 and a 300SL Roadster !
Now back to work ! ;)
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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Hi Fabrice and all,
You asked about Mercedes freaks or just automobile freaks... I'm in both sides, but I'm mainly a Mercedes fan. I have another "classic" car: a VW Golf GTI Mk1 from 1984. It was my first car in 1989 (I was 19 years old), and I don't want to sell it... although it's stored in a garage since many time ago...
My daily car is a modest MB A 190 Avantgarde, and in my wish list (see attached photos) there are two SLR: the '55 300 SLR Uhlenhaut Coupé, and the '03 SLR Mercedes-McLaren :D I know... it's a very hard wish list... a SL 65 AMG would be enough for me! ;)
About other (MB or not MB) classic cars, the Pagoda fills enough place for me: it's nice, enjoyable to drive, coupé and roadster in one car... so, why another classic car? (and the Gullwing or the Uhlenhaut Coupé are too far for my pocket!)
I like the W111 coupé (another Paul Bracq work), the 600 W100, the 300 S Coupé or Roadster W188, the G Class, the S Class W126, the 500 SL R129...
My next MB probably would be a modern car (not a new car): A friend owns a C 55 AMG (W202), 347 HP and 52 mkg of torque (more than a Ferrari F40!) under a "taxi" body... it's just amazing! I'm waiting until he sells the car [:p]
Regards,
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Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
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I agree albert, definitively a car freak!!
I am also patiently waiting to buy back the 1957 Rover 100 P4 in which my parents got married, bought from a friend by my great grandmother in 1958...I had to sell it when I was a student (had been stored since 1973, before the oil krach, because it had to high consumption!!!).
It is now in working condition, owned by a Rover collector in France...
So. Albert, you were 19 in 1989....that makes you one year older than me!!!
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
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quote:
Originally posted by Fabrice
...So. Albert, you were 19 in 1989....that makes you one year older than me!!!
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
Hi Fabrice,
Just today is my 33rd anniversary! So, how much older than you?
When I was born, my "Pago" was more than 6 years old..., and I bought it when I was 26. Some Pagoda owners of the Spanish MB Club also are in the 30's, and I think there are some in our Group. It's a funny point: classic cars usually are related to older people... but not our "always young" classic car! :)
Regards,
Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
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HAPPY BIRTHDAY Albert!!!
how funny!!! I'll be one year younger than you on wednesday....
I moved from Paris to New York when I was 26, and didn't have ANY car until my 280sl!!!
I have a regret though, I was at a car auction (late 97) a couple of months before moving and, because I knew I was moving, I didn't bid on this Maserati Mexico in okay working condition I could have bought for 2500 EUR...!!!!! At that same auction was a 190sl in good condition sold for 15000 EUR... Those were the old days.... :D
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
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I had a 65 and 68 Chevy Corvair. The 65 was a convertible 140hp. I had this in college, great chick magnet. I now only have the 68 280 SL, but have recently had a hankering for an early 911. I like the idea of a sports car with 4 seats. I've also always loved the 911's lines. It's those fenders, not unlike the 113, that I love.
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quote:
Originally posted by LFrank
1965 220SEb (w111) white (finnie) & 1972 300SEL 4.5 (w109) green in addition to beloved 1965 230 sl (w113); all three get horrible mileage. Now, which parts are interchangeable? None...? :?:
LFrank
Washington DC
65 230 sl - auto
DB334/Hellblau
Well, AT LEAST the fusebox cover (complete with German language insert for fuse position, all corresponding) :) . I also guess your 220 is fitted with the white steering wheel - what colour is the wheel on the 230?
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You said this Wednesday, so HAPPY BIRTHDAY Fabrice!!!
Regards,
Albert
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Hello Fabrice and everyone else
Most people are surprised and amused when I tell them that apart from my 230 SL, my daily driver is a 1964 Holden EH ute. This is a distinctly Australian car. The Holden is a uniquely Australian derivative of General Motors and the ute is our version of a pickup. My ute is very rough and ready but most older Aussies have a soft spot for it because the EH was a hugely popular model in its day. The great thing I find is comparing my two cars. The Holden drives like a 1960's car and is quite agricultural with it's three speed column shift, scary brakes, questionable handling and lack of synchromesh on first gear. The 230 SL is only a year younger and drives like a modern car. I suppose I'm preaching to the converted here!
Regards
Mark Ravagnani
1965 230 SL
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Merci Albert!!!! :D
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
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group:
the question was asked what other classics do we own.
at this time i only have one other classis a 79 450sl but in the past year i have owned a 79 vw bug convertable a 78 alfa spyder a 57 jeep FC170 and my 66 230sl. I have sold all but the two MB's and i have no intention of letting go of my w113 any time soon. I just love this car. I am also looking for an early 911 and a TR6 or maby an MGA i guess you could say that i have a problem when it comes to the old cars.
I wonder if their is a 12 steep program for people like me?
Jerry P.
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Oh, Dear. Confession time. We have a 1978 De Tomaso Longchamps, a 1970 E-type, my 1968 280SL, my 1985 6-series BMW, a Ford GT-40, and a 1968 Vette. All but the Vette and the GT are regularly driven, but our daily driver in Europe is a 500SL. You think YOU have an old-car problem. You will know for sure when you start considering building an additional garage (we already have three). But you know what? The only one of all of the above that I would hate to let go is the 280.
By the way (different thread, I know, but I'm lazy today), I just returned from the Costa Verde in Portugal, where the mountains are accessible only by cobblestone winding roads. Imagine my surprise when we reached the top of Braga at Bom Jesus (big gorgeous cathedral) and went to have lunch in the posh hotel. Parked outside was an absolutely perfect ivory-coloured 190. It had a Portugal plate, so it was a native. God knows how long it will last on those roads, though. After 20K kms, every bolt must be loose...
Trice
(cars listed above, guiltily...)
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal/bl leather, auto
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friends:
the question was asked which other classic would a
pagoda person own. I must confess that I had to sell
my 64 230sl, and my 64 saab 96, but retained my 58
nash metropolitan convertible. I sincerely miss the 230sl, but still have fun with the Met. Having driven all three cars, I must say that the 230sl generated respect, the saab generated confusion and the Met generates love.
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Well, I own a 1987 Ford 5.0. notch-bach Mustang all factory orginal paint & interior & engine &drive train. Some simple modifications to the suspension and drive train but baisly stock. It sits beside my 280SL. Both cars so very different one with great power and one with great fineese. Both give me enjoyment and pleasure through had I to pick one I fear my choice would be the mercedes like an old pipe its been in the family since the begining of my driving days and a friend who stories go far back in time. However that decision has not had to be made so both reside as neibors side by side to show my customers who Ohh with enjoyment at the pleasure to see this old Mercedes and a Mustang so clean. They are like childern althought I would have to say the SL is a spoiled child that lets you now when it is unhappy and must receive some attention. both I cherish and both shall I own for quite some time to come.
We will be adding shortly a 1992 300-E sport Black on black with 32,000 orginal miles. this will be my wifes much desired new car and my weekend driver.
Bob Geco
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I'm new to this forum, so excuse my late post.
Besides my 68 280SL, I also have a 68 Camaro convertible. Maintaining and detailing both these cars, and my Harley, keeps me pretty busy. But the older cars just have so much more "style" than the newer cars. Cars don't seem to have lines anymore...just blah jellybean shapes. And the older cars actually appreciate in value.
To see my cars, click on my homepage.
Steve W.
1968 280SL
www.stevewaddington.com/camaro
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Okay, it's quiet on this board today, so at the risk of boring some of you, I'll share a photo of my Bavarian stablemate to my Pagoda:
http://home.nyc.rr.com/mrdjsk/MAINEBMW2.JPG
(Oddly enough, I know a couple of people in this club who share this same pair of cars. I guess it's a 1960's thing.....)
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
#018260
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Er of the scrap front:
1965 230 SL - in New Jersey I'm in Scotland I'm working on the shipping!
1962 MGA Mk2 -Fun, quite fast, found with a tree growing thought the floor. I restored it - nightmare hardly a flat panel on it.
1974 BMW 2002 Tii fun, fast and a hand full in the wet - restored by me for the good lady
1978 MGB rubber bumpered off the road at the moment my first car
1974 BMW 3.0Csi - restoring, tricky and more rust than the average british leyland product She who must be obeyed likes the shape!
1987 Stage Rallying Lancia Delta Integrale Compete in the Scottish rally championship. Crashed it this year - slowly rebuilding
Clubs:
MG owners Club
BMW Owners Club
Stonehaven and District Motor Club (Motor sports)
No real money so it all takes time to fix the cars as funding becomes available.
Cheers
Malc
Scotland
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In addition to my 280SL, I have a 63 220SEb coupe (W111). The car shares a similar drivetrain, suspension, instruments, steering wheel and front seats and this makes me feel like I'm in familiar territory when working on each car. The cars have completely different personalities though. Both are solid, reliable and perfect old cars to own, and to drive.
1969 280SL, manual, MB TEX, green/cognac
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'66 230SL (Italian) w/5 spd ZF tranny, rear "kinder" seat
'59 220S sedan, Webasto sunroof
'72 280SE 4.5, sunroof, Bundt wheels
_JP-
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Nice car, Douglas! We saw a few 3.0CS's and 3.5CS's (I hope I'm getting the names right) in Monterey this year, they are quite good looking cars. I think the proportions and styling are somewhat similar to the Pagoda's, especially the slender roof pillars. Maybe that explains why some guys have both?
George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual
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I also have a 1956 Jeep CJ-5. It was owned by my first employer and I used to Sit in it when I was 13 and imagine driving. It need total restoration but it only has 11,000 miles on it.
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Has anybody made the observation that both the W113 and the BMW CSi were designed by Paul Bracq?
Bill Greffin
Chicago
#22375
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George, thanks for the kind words. Just trying to keep it interesting here by sharing some non-Pagoda pix.
Bill, actually the BMW's 6-series coupe from the late '70s through the late '80s was designed by Paul Bracq, not the '68-'75 E9. If memory serves, the E9's design is credited to Wilhelm Hofmeister.
Interesting point of similarity between Bracq's SL and the Bracq-designed CS: Both cars have a graduated lip that flares out then recedes around each wheel opening. Very Bracq.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #018260
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quote:
Originally posted by Douglas
...Bill, actually the BMW's 6-series coupe from the late '70s through the late '80s was designed by Paul Bracque, not the '68-'75 E9. If memory serves, the E9's design is credited to Wilhelm Hofmeister.
Interesting point of similarity between Bracque's SL and the Bracque-designed CS...
More information about Paul Bracq in: www.chez.com/bracq
Regards,
Albert de la Torre Chavalera
Barcelona (Catalunya/Spain)
Feb.'64 230 SL Euro 113042-10-002432
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I have no idea whether anyone else besides me is interested in GT40s, on this Forum, but if you are, the place to hang out on the web is www.GT40s.com, a terrific site run by Ron Earp in NC. At least one 113 owner here also has a GT40 replica; maybe there are some others. I love my 113 car, and doubtless will love it more when we get the bugs out of it, but the GT40 gives me chest pain whenever I see one. :D
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Jim, I bought my 280 SL from an enthusiast in Metamora, Michigan who owned two GT40s, one was real and the other a replica. A gorgeous machine.
Did you see the short film that Ford made to introduce the new version? It was a great piece of film.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #018260
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The GT40 is one of my favorite cars. They are absolutely gorgeous, perhaps the best looking car of all time, and have a fabulous racing history. I will never be able to own one, but am glad I get to see them occasionally at historic races. I got to see the original Lola GT, which is the predecessor to the GT40, a couple of years ago before restoration work was begun. Cute and neat, but not nearly as beautiful as the GT40.
The new Ford GT is, IMO, a very nice update to the original GT40, and I'd be ever so grateful if someone could see fit to give me one!
George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual