Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: jameshoward on June 04, 2007, 11:29:02
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Whilst checking my timing at the weekend and discovering that it was 10 deg BTDC at 3000rpm, I sought to adjust it. Tried to get a 5mm hex key to fit the collar (see photo) but it wouldn't fit. Cleaned it up a bit and found:
1. Hex key head was rounded out.
2. There was a big crack in the shaft in which the distr sits.
See attached photos.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Cracked distr housing 1.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/200764131041_Cracked%20distr%20housing%201.jpg)
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Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Distr Housing 2.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/200764131059_Distr%20Housing%202.jpg)
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So, I daren't open the bolt less the housing break. Having checked for parts on the web, I can only find a housing that does not look like the one I need.
Questions:
1. Does anyone know if I can use these parts, as both look different to mine, which just seems to be circular at the top; these appear to be oval, having some additional fitting of some kind:
This photo is taken from the SLS website; it is part no 15 in the photo and is listed as a 'Distr Bearing Body 280SL' (I have a 230); I have placed a blow-up of the part in the bottom right corner; note that the top of it has an odd shape nothing like the top of my housing.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) SLS Distr photo.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/200764132047_SLS%20Distr%20photo.jpg)
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This photo is taken from the Neimoller site. It is item no 82; it appears to be different to the SLS part, but still different to mine.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Niemoller distr.gif (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/200764132433_Niemoller%20distr.gif)
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2. How much of a drama is it to remove the housing and replace with a new one? I am assuming I have to remove the bonnet/hood and radiator.
3. Anyone know a spell to make the problem go away?
Many thanks for any advice/hints,
James
1966 230SL Manual
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You have the later housing that clamps the distributor. The early one is different in that it has a seperate bracket that clamps the distributor and a small lever for fine tuning. There is also one used on late 280SL's that is similar to the early system except it doesn't have a lever for fine adjustment.
The one you have is for later cars than the 113 and is very simple in design. You may have a replacement block which has this later piece as a standard part. Any of these systems will work but you have to get all the right parts. If you need to remove the front cover that the distributor sits in you will have to re - index the distributor drive gear so that the rotor will point to number one on the distributor housing.
If you can't remove the damaged clamp screw I think you will have to remove the front cover. This can be done without removing the hood or rad.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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James,
I wouldn't want this in my car--working or not--anymore then I'd want a cracked heart in my body. This can't be good for you--maybe not now, but at some point in time and for sure at the worst possible time. Mr. Murphy will guarantee it.
Find a replacement, rebuilt or new. Dr. Benz is a good place to start. If he doesn't have one he'll certainly rebuild them for you.
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red 568G w/Black Leather (Restored)
President, International Stars Section
Mercedes-Benz Club of America
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Hello James,
Fuel injected Mercedes sedans of the era used these same housing parts.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Dan/Joe/Michael,
Many thanks for your responses.
A follow up question: How does the distributor engage with the gear inside the block? What I would like to know is can I simply unbolt the front cover and then pull the whole cover AND distributor away from the block, or must I remove the distributor first then remove the cover?
Also, can you please confirm for me that either of the new parts I've listed, from either SLS or Niemoller, will fit my block? Is the diameter of the cover going to be the same?
Dan, you say 'make sure you get all the right parts,' ok, but don't I just need a new cover, gasket and locking bolt? Won't the exisitng distributor be OK? (It is from a 113).
OK, that's 2 questions, but I just want to make sure I proceed properly and order the right parts.
Thanks,
James
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What I mean by '' all the right parts '' is that you need have all the parts that go with the different versions sould you decide to change to a different housing.
You can still use your distributor, gear and small spring that goes between the distributor and the helical drive gear. If you decide to change housings then you will need the right clamping device to adjust distributor timing.
The one you now have on your engine isn't actualy correct but it will work OK. One thing about this type of housing though; if you don't have the clamp tight the distributor will slide upwards and disengage from its drive. The engine will suddenly stop running and you will be in trouble depending on where it happens.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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If you remove the front cover without first removing the distributor is it likley that any parts, the gear or the spring, will fall down into the engine ??
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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JH, Can it be welded? Aluminum? Weld shops have gotten pretty good on this stuff. Not a lot of pressure on the piece. Must have been over tightened. ---If you can't find a replacement.
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Nothing will fall down into the engine. All the small parts will stay in the housing.
You could get this welded but it should still be removed. I believe it's die casting. May not be that easy to weld.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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Here's one:
http://cgi.ebay.de/Lager-fuer-Zuendverteiler-Mercedes-W113-Pagode_W0QQitemZ110144680412QQihZ001QQcategoryZ76001QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
68 280SL
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Just mailed one yesterday off to James, he should be receiving it this week. Hopefully it's a match.
Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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Cees/Naj,
Thanks. Been working away for 2 weeks and now spending the morning seeing what I could have learnt if I'd been able to check the website each day!
Cees - the distributor housing arrived, thank you so much. I'll e-mail you off line. And Naj, I've dropped you a line already.
The new one is a match for the original one, I think, although it's different to my own - broken - one. I can't see any reason why it won't fit and will have a go next weekend. Is there anything else I could usefully do to the dissy whilst I've got it out? (THe spring and gear seems to be in good nick).
Many thanks - I'll keep you posted.
JH
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James,
Two things you could provide that might help everyone would be your engine number (on block below #5 and #6 spark plugs) and your Bosch distributor number (on plate on distributor). This tells everyone what parts you are working with.
I hope Cees' part does the trick for you.
Regarding what else to do, maybe you should just disassemble and clean yours up a bit. Here's a site documenting the rebuild of an "010" distributor. You probably have an "050", so I'm not sure how many of these parts will be the same.
http://www.glenn-ring.com/010/
Pictures of Bosch distributors for MB:
http://www.glenn-ring.com/bosch/mercedes/
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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It's always interesting to see what the competition is doing.
This type of rebuild would be OK if there was nothing wrong with your distributor and all it needed was a good cleaning but that's rarely the case. I don't know where he found that old distributor for his rebuild example but I've never seen anything that bad or dirty.
Without a distributor tester you can't check firing point, dwell angle, advance cure, advance plate wear, bearing wear, vacuum advance/retard function and several other things that affect performance. I also set end play on the main shaft, use new advance springs if I can get them along with new bearings and the rebuild kit. Distributor rebuild kits are now twice as much at $85.00
At least his pictures are nice....
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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I now have my distributor in bits as I thought I'd give it a clean up whlist I am waiting for my FI pump to return from Holland.
Having started this without a rebuild kit, I foresee many problems ahead. First problem I'd appreciate some advice on:
Ref the photo below, taken from the glenn-rings site coz it shows the part very well; I cannot get the roll pin out of the shaft. I've taken a large club hammer and drift to it and have given it quite a bit of welly, but it will not budge. I was thinking of putting some heat at the bottom of the shaft, but thought I'd better see if anyone has any better ideas. I don't have a press. Any advice?
Also, for the Benz Dr, if needed can you ship a distributor rebuild kit to Germany? Despite the fact Bosch claim to be German, their customer services people claim to know nothing about distributor rebuild kits or dissy parts for a 051 230SL model.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) dis.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/2007716155240_dis.jpg)
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Yes I got a new repair kit from Dan a few years back, nobody over here knew what the hell I was talking about !
It tightened things up considerably and stopped my dwell shifting all over the place !
Once you have the correct pin punch and have the unit well supported the pin should push out. Mine was tight but they usually are !
Good luck !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.