Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: jameshoward on December 19, 2006, 11:11:51
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Thank you all for your most helpful advice on what early work needs to be done to my new car, following this thread http://index.php?topic=6265
I will sit down over Christmas and see what's within the realm of the possible/affordable.
For those who know what the German Government TUV test involves, it's pretty harsh, especially on rust etc. The car failed on the following points:
- Headlights (no surprises there, since it still has the US ones that put out about as much light as 2 tired glow worms in a dark jar)
- registration (licence plate) lights in op.
- Excessive play in the steering relay & lower swivel bearings
- Coroded drivers side floor panel (known to me - this has been bodged over the years and must be cut out and replaced - the carpet was SOAKING after being shipped from the US and water appears there each day despite now being garaged; I have no idea where it's coming from)
- Excessive play in LH read shock lower mount
- RH (and LH almost) shocks unservicable
- No 3 point harness
- Centre exhaust bracket missing (again, known and is a result of the new exhaust being put on incorrectly - it will have to be cut off and re-welded)
It could have been much worse, although my mechanic is yet to climb all over it. No doubt his good German self will find much more to be gloomy about.
I would be interested to know from the European or British membership whether anyone else has been told to fit a 3 point seatbelt mount to these cars. If they have, how does one do it? ANy points gratefully received.
I've also posted a few early photos (at the second attempt).
James
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Beauty is only skin deep!
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James,
Just a suggestion, but you may be able to get away with replacing the headlight with a sealed halogen lamp that fits in the US headlight door. Complete conversion to euro headlights will be very expensive and the sealed lamp alternative may work, I hope.
Best,
g
'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon
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quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
Excessive play in the steering relay & lower swivel bearings
Search for "steering box bushing" or some combination of that. This is a fix a novice can do.
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
I would be interested to know from the European or British membership whether anyone else has been told to fit a 3 point seatbelt mount to these cars. If they have, how does one do it? Any points gratefully received.
Here's some seatbelt threads:
http://index.php?topic=5940
http://index.php?topic=4912
http://index.php?topic=4318
http://index.php?topic=4117
http://index.php?topic=3937
http://index.php?topic=3881
http://index.php?topic=3405
http://index.php?topic=3092
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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James
If the floor continues to get wet, I'll suggest that the drains for the scuttlebox (fresh air intake vent) are possibly blocked. This can lead to rust in the metal tubes that connect the drains to the outside, engine bay side, of the firewall. There are rubber hoses, which can be accessed from under the dash running from the scuttlebox to the metal tubes that pass through the firewall. If these get plugged, which they do easily from debris getting into the vent area, the metal tubes can rust and allow water to enter the firewall crossmember, which can hold several litres of water, undetected, until it rusts through a section of floor reinforcing which is connected to the firewall crossmember and drops down under the floor on both sides of the car. I know this because it happened to me and I had to replace the firewall crossmember and much of the passenger side floor/support frame.
The drain tubes should have a stiff wire run up them from outside in the engine bay, up into the scuttlebox, to make sure they aren't blocked. There is usually a rubber ball type covering (engine bay)on the driverside drain and the pass. side is usually just a metal tube, turned down directly above the exhaust head pipe, on left hand drive cars. Hopefully this is not the problem in your car..... These tubes can allow water to drain onto your feet while driving as well,if the rubber becomes perished, but the metal tubes have not yet rusted.
I think if you do a search on "scuttlebox", there are some photos in previous threads to make this clearer
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Hello James,
Not really that bad. The driver's floor will be the biggest challenge. If you cannot use the sealed halogen headlights you most likely will be able to use the conversions which have the seprate bulb. Everything fits in the standard US type assemblies. You can get a wide variety of different wattage halogen lamps for these. Marchal, Cibie, and Bosch are some of the manufacturers. these are fairly inexpensive and provide excellent lighting. Some Mercedes like the 300 SEL 6.3 came from the factory with this type of lighting and never had the full glass covers like most of the other euro style lighting.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio
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Thanks for the posts about the blocked drainage tubes. Today I set about trying to find, then unblock them.
I used a wire coat hanger to check the tubes. The right hand tube (as you face direction of travel), the more accessible one, had no rubber ball, which threw me for a while. Once found (at the end of my nose) I inserted a wire a long way up the tube and it did not seem blocked.
The situation was somewhat different for the left hand one. (See attached 'photos for a laugh). The ball was present and the attached photograph might serve to give an idea of what said ball contained. (Most of a forrest; I think I will use the contents as compost for my orchids). The ball was completely perished and the drainage tube well rusted, but not irreparable. I was hoping that lots of water would flood out as I unblocked the tube but none did. That said, today was the first day that the foot well was dry.
QUESTION: Is there benefit in removing the air intake and seeing the state of things inside, because...
QUESTION 2: (probably a really dumb question) when I rock the car from side to side with my ear against the firewall, (right hand side) I heard lots of fluid sloshing about. Is there fluid in there for the heating system (I noticed that pipes lead into the firewall from the engine bay)? I am now paranoid that my firewall is disintegrating from the inside out due to litres of water being trapped therein! (Although both drains seem to be open and nothing is coming out).
As for the windscreen washer pump, it works (the motor works) but it won't draw water. I took it apart and it seems fine, but I think I'll have to buy a new one.
I also pulled out the spark plugs today to see how the fuel mix was. Cylinders 1 & 2 were sooty; cylinder 3 was sooty and oily (sooty I could cope with; oily was a little more worrying). 4-6 will wait until tomorrow.
I am also looking forward to taking the top down for the first time tomorrow to see about the drainage holes in the hood space.
James
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quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
.. QUESTION 2: (probably a really dumb question) when I rock the car from side to side with my ear against the firewall, (right hand side) I heard lots of fluid sloshing about. Is there fluid in there for the heating system (I noticed that pipes lead into the firewall from the engine bay)? ...
James,
I don't believe that the water in the heater core will drain completely even with both valves open. Here are pictures what this looks like from below: http://sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=5181
Disconnect inlet and outlet hoses on the firwall and check whether you can blow out the remaining water
quote:
As for the windscreen washer pump, it works (the motor works) but it won't draw water. I took it apart and it seems fine, but I think I'll have to buy a new one.
Try the same, that is, blow air through the pump and check whether it is leaking. If my memory is correct it should be sealed when not running. If it is sealed, then perhaps you just need to prime it.
Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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So, let me know if I understand this process correctly:
- These heaterbox (scuttlebox) train tubes travel through the firewall box section, right?
- When they rust, the fluid empties from there into the box section, right?
- The fulid is held in the box section until that rusts through?
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Rodd and James,
The tubes from the scuttle box can clog, then water will no longer drain from the scuttle box. At that point the scuttle box overflows and everything rusts. James could have been getting water into his car because the tubes were blocked or because the metal drains have a section os ruber hose in them. If the rubber hose breaks draining water will leak into the interior of the car. The sloshing James heard could be from water which overflowed from the scuttle box or it could have been water in the heater core. I would check the ruber hoses and if the inside of the car stays dry I would suggest you leave the heater core alone for now.
Regards,
Ted
1969 280SL
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Rodd
Yes that's correct, the tubes exit the scuttle box, then switch to rubber then back to metal that travels through the firewall crossmember to exit in the engine bay. If the blockage occurs past the rubber hoses then the metal tubes that pass through the crossmember can rust out and fill up the crossmember with water which has no place to escape until it rusts through. If James is hearing water slosh when rocking the car, this can't be the heater core...the passage ways in the core itself are too small to create a sloshing sound and it would mean the cooling system was low enough to allow sloshing....I doubt very much it could be heard outside of the car either. I suspect that the water is in the crossmember and even if the tubes seem to be OK, it would be very difficult to tell if there was a small rust hole where it passes through the crossmember. These metal tubes would be approx. 6-8" long and there is no way you can see inside of them. From James description of the debris in the rubber ball, I would guess they have been blocked long enough to rust through the tube and likely this is where the rust in the floor comes from as the support member that runs below the firewall crossmember will also fill up with water which eventually rusts through into the footwells.
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Wow, they really check things out there in the Heimatland. My car wouldn't get past the front door! The only thing that would really bug me is the seatbelt thing -- yes the 3-pointers are safer, but if the car was made in Germany and had no belts, or only lap belts -- it seems only fair that they let them remain on the road.
Good luck with the repairs James. The good news is, by the time your car is road worthy, it will handle much better and be worth more if you try and sell it. As for looking into the air intake -- I'd say it is a good idea. Then you can poke the wire from top and see that the entire drain is clear. Mine was plugged and my reaming pushed a lot of debris (sadly, mostly rust particles) out the bottom. The extent of my "hidden" rust is yet to be known, although my floor corners were ugly. Needless to say, I won't be moving to Deutschland anytime soon...
James
63 230SL
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricardo
....then back to metal that travels through the firewall crossmember to exit in the engine bay. If the blockage occurs past the rubber hoses then the metal tubes that pass through the crossmember can rust out and fill up the crossmember with water which has no place to escape until it rusts through.
I guess the engineers expect regular maintenance instead of letting the car sit in storage for years.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Ricardo,
I'm going to do some further investigation today, but from what you say it sounds as though the only way to remove the water that is probably in the firewall would be to do something pretty radical - and the only thing I can think of would be to drill into it. Clearly I don't intend to do this until I've checked everything else I can think of (rather, that the membership can think of) but if the only way to get the water out is to wait for it to rust, I think I need to do something. Am I correct, and assuming this course of action is required, where is the best place to drill that would produce a hole into a single skinned low point within the firewall that might allow any trapped water to drain?
James
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Hi James
If the water is just in the crossmember and has not migrated into the box section running down under the floor, then I would say yes you need to drill a hole somewhere. In my case the rust had eaten away at the area around the pass. side drain tube itself. Initially all I was aware of, was a small dime sized area of rust under the tube where it exits the firewall, so perhaps this is close to the lowest spot, though truthfully the crossmember is pretty level across the car and if you are going to drill a hole, probably any convienient location along the bottom edge would suffice to at least drain the section. Now that you have cleaned/removed the ball fitting any new water will be inclined to flow out where it's supposed to, but there is likely a rust hole in that tube so additional water may get into the crossmember again. If you determine that things have not deteriorated too far then I might consider trying to insert a smaller diameter tube through the existing one and adapting under the dash so as to avoid having to replace the current rusted tube. These are actually welded to the inner and outer skins of the crossmember so removal is difficult. In my case a little digging around the initial rust spot revealed that the rust was much more extensive than it first appeared and I ended up doing major surgery, replacing the whole crossmember and some of the floor area on the passenger side. I was only able to do this because I had the engine out of the car. The box section running under the floor is of a thicker gauge than the crossmember so I was able to salvage it, though it had rusted through to the interior floor area. After all the welding was finished I injected undercoating into the crossmember and box sections to slow any further oxidation of the surfaces I couldn't replace.
The most discouraging aspect of this job was the fact that I had been shown the rust area under the drain tube by the previous owner, who stated that it was the only rust he was aware of and I told myself "that's no big deal" and only discovered a couple of years later, that it was a much bigger issue than it had appeared.
Still it's all fixable.... I purchased a new crossmember from K&K, though it was an OEM part anyway, at reasonable cost and my son and I had a great bonding experience making the repairs. It helps that he's a mechanical engineer with a machinist certificate and wrote his thesis on new welding techniques, but only a little :)
Don't be discouraged...it's all part of the mystique of owning these lovely little gems and the thrill of driving them makes it all worth while. At least all the parts are available.
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James,
where in Germany are you located? Have you been living in Germany for a long time? Are you acquainted with parts suppliers etc?
I bought my Pagoda three years ago and brought it from Texas to Germany. I had no problems at all to get it "TUEV"-ED - without a single seat belt. The car still doesn't have any and it passed the bi-annual text this April without problems.
What I am saying is that no two TUEV-Stations are the same - a car which does not pass the test here may pass it there.
Let me know if you are interested to get in touch with me. Maybe I can be of assistance.
Best,
Juergen
Juergen
64 230SL #2933, 4sp, signal red, white hard top
2000 320 CDI Station Wagon
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quote:
The car failed on the following points:
1) Headlights (no surprises there, since it still has the US ones that put out about as much light as 2 tired glow worms in a dark jar)
2)registration (licence plate) lights in op.
3)Excessive play in the steering relay & lower swivel bearings
4)Coroded drivers side floor panel (known to me - this has been bodged over the years and must be cut out and replaced - the carpet was SOAKING after being shipped from the US and water appears there each day despite now being garaged; I have no idea where it's coming from)
5)Excessive play in LH read shock lower mount
6)RH (and LH almost) shocks unservicable
7)No 3 point harness
8)Centre exhaust bracket missing (again, known and is a result of the new exhaust being put on incorrectly - it will have to be cut off and re-welded)
James,
Perhaps you know all this already but here goes anyway--
1) You can obtain, at great cost, OEM Euro headlights. These are available from some suppliers, and sometimes on eBay. They are not cheap. An alternative is to fit Hella, Cibie or others into the 7" US sealed beam sockets. These typically use H4? bulbs or brighter, and cost in the USA seems to be around $50 each. Here's what I'm talking about:
http://www.autobahnpower.com/products.asp?recnumber=422
2) License plate light is a quick and easy fix. I bet the sockets are corroded.
3) and 5) Excessive play. I believe you can find tolerances for this in one of the specification books. If it is indeed out of tolerance, consider your failure a blessing in disguise; it will force proper repair to specification.
6) Replace the shocks. Do all 4 of them. Who wants to ride around on parts that are past their service life? We have these cars for fun driving, right? Can't be fun when the shocks are shot. While Bilsteins are standard, Jim Villers of our group, and Pete Lesler too, have sworn by Koni adjustables. Not something to run out and replace if your shocks are good, but if yours are not, consider this an opportunity.
7) Contact me off line, I have the MB Technical Bulletin to fit 3-point retractables using MB parts to your car. It's a bit of work, but it can be done. It's a large file I might have to mail it to you.
4) and 8) Sadly and expensively you know what you need to do here...
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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I am indebted to your for your interest and assistance: (There is a question at the end of this post that one could skip to - it's about the heater core!!!)
Michael - thank you for your kind offer. In light of what Juergen says I will do a little more home work on the TUV chaps and their rule book, but I have a question and will e-mail you. Thank you for the advice on the shocks - I will do all 4. Incidentally, the car is down on the drivers side, so there may be more to it than just shocks. (God forbid). Springs, I guess?? The licence plate is my excuse for not doing anything around the house tomorrow. I'll let you know how I get on.
Juergen - I'll contact you off line.
Ricardo - thanks. If your son would like to do some post grad work, he and his welding device are most welcome to stay over Christmas. I have a lot of good wine he can drink in his few hours off each day! I'll let you know if I decide to drill, and where. As you will see below, it's all rather confusing trying try to trace the water.
Today's tinkerings were good and bad; probably good on balance.
I used the advice given earlier and on hours of searches throughout the site to track the route of water that enters the area of the firewall. The drivers side was easy (I just had to look up) and I removed the cardboard panels on the passenger side to expose the pipes. The photos show what I found:
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As you can see, the passengers side was fine perfect (it is also the very dry side of the car) and a highlight of the day was finding what to the untrained eye appears to be some of the original firewall pad (yes??) - anyway, it cheered me greatly. The drivers side, however, was utterly shot. It was also blocked with fluff amongst other things (small woodland creatures, light aircraft, etc) and so I can't imagine - given the amount of water in the drivers side footwell - that the water came in through that route. I say that because I then went on to remove the air scoop (I'll throw in scuttlebox to help others' searches) and found that the area was dry; almost dusty. I have attached 2 not great photos of the drainage holes in the firewall:
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) dvrs side firewall drainage hole.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/20061221122328_dvrs%20side%20firewall%20drainage%20hole.jpg)
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To reiterate, the firewall was not wet. I am therefore still at a bit of a loss as to quite how so much water entered the car. At some stage during the day, I put my hand behind the drivers seat and was rewarded with a wet palm. I had stupidly forgotten to check the rear of the seat. This is what I found:
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This was a low point, but hardly unexpected. It's all got to be replaced anyway.
If anyone is still reading this, I have a question that follows from my investigation of the air scoop. There is a metal flap which appears as though it should sit at the back of the heater core - there are some holes in the flap - which is the length of the core exactly - but there don't seem to be any holes in the core, although there are marks that correspond with these holes. I attach a really bad photo. To try to explain it better, the top of the photo is where the rear of the air scoop sits, just forward of the windscreen. A lever can also be seen in the photo - this is one of the 2 that open and close the area of the heater core to allow warm air into the cab (I assume!) The reason that I think my dodgy plate should be affixed to the rear (facing towards the back of the car) of the core is that without it, warm air will always enter the cab. So, my question is: HOW DO I AFFIX IT?
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Hello James,
Please read this post:
http://index.php?topic=6028
I found my plate loose as well. I simply removed it and will save it for a future day when I pull my heater core.
Good luck with your project!
These are fun cars to work on and drive!
Bob
bpossel (Memphis, TN.)
'71 280SL / '97 E320
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James
Well I've got my fingers crossed for you...maybe all the water came through the perished rubber. Water would normaly not flow into the scuttlebox while the car is stationary. With high winds or driving in the rain a lot of water can get in, that's why they have two 5/8' I.D. hoses to drain it away. I'd be feeling good with your discovery except for the noted sloshing sound, yet to be found. I kind of hate to do this but I'm going to post a couple of shots of what can be found here. These are digital photos of 35mm prints (pre digital camera days a lifetime ago :D )so the quality is wanting, but you get the idea. Also the vent flap is certainly a factor in the drenched floor and again if the car was driven in heavy rain, much more water would end up getting past the skewed flap than normal and into the interior chambers of the heater box.
There are a few of us here with "known" floor issues and obviously the floors are usually the worst, as effort is spent keeping the exterior looking good, floors are ignored. Some of us even live with sub-par floors, planning to some day get around to it, but still catching all the smiles over all those miles (about 25,000 in 6 years).....the parts are all available, including patch and repair panels...it's just steel
Congradulations on taking the plunge....I envy you because I remember how the first few weeks were such a heady time...mostly exciting and only occasionally discouraging, a bit like falling in love ;)
I'll pass on the invite to Nigel, but I suspect he'd rather stay in his new home with his new 2 month old daughter and have his family come stay with him for christmas :D
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Hey James
Have you looked in the space under the shelf behind the seats?
If the rear seals to the top leak it is possible that water could enter though the soft top well area.
Maybe a quick look under the rubber mat in the boot too.
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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Bob,
Thanks for your post - I went down to the car today specifically to identify where from where the water comes. The car only has a soft top, which I have not yet touched and having read many many threads here about tops getting stuck, I am glad I resisted the temptation to put it down - I have no doubt I would have got it truly stuck. Anyway, I removed the wooden floor panels expecting the worst but they are bone dry and show no signs of ever having been wet - not lately at least. (I am happy about this). I then felt the next place to examine was the soft top box. I WD-40'd the hinges and joints yesterday in preparation as I have no idea when it was last lowered. Today I pulled on the handle and lo - it's not connected to anything! It just merrily swings about.
I had a look through the rear of the trunk and can see that the bolt on the end of the lever seems almost off its thread. I've searched on the site and have found this post:
http://index.php?topic=5681,top,release,broken
I will try to move the latch in the centre of the box over tomorrow. (Grateful if anyone else has any ideas!)
So, the search has come to a halt as I could not continue until I'd searched this most excellent site for what to do about the release lever. And I found the info here. Tomorrow I'll give it a go.
BTW, the rear license plate problem was nothing more complicated than a broken bulb! (Although both of the glass covers are shattered, which seems odd - I'll add those to the list).
GERMAN DUDE - I've sent you an e-mail - let me know if you got it.
James
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James, some number plates light glasses on Ebay UK today, sourcing from Germany.
270070084602
Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
2004 230 SLK silver
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I can share another useful place to look for rust. Remove the kick panels and take a peek in there. You can usually spot trouble in the sill/front rocker area.
James
63 230SL
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Todays main effort was to free the soft top box cover, which I managed to do with the loss of only 3 fingers, a socket and my sense of humour (twice). The directions on this site on pushing the bolt of the release mechanism to the drivers side using a screw driver put through the acccess hole in the soft top box worked very well. However, I then had to hook some strong polytwine around the mechanism and pull VERY VERY hard to release the side latches. I have now fixed the release lever and have used a split washer to prevent a reoccurance. I have also made the poly twine a permanent feature - just in case.
Once inside the soft top box, all seemed immaculate. I found the drainage holes and gave them a run through. I then injected some water into each to see where the water flowed. It dripped out from the sills (rocker panels) by the rear jacking point. No water came into the footwell of the car. This is good as it means that the drainage tubes are reasonably fuctionable at least. But, I am no where nearer finding out where the water come from (I can't believe that the water entered through the floor, although there are numerous holes in there miss their gromets, etc. Unless it rains from the floor up in the US and whilst on ships to Europe. Or it came in through the roof, about which...)
Having finally released the hood, I felt it was time to try and fold it into the soft top box. Again, I read all the threads I could find and there was much good advice about using belts. (See photos below - I will spare you the one of me, trousers at ankles).
The hood folds OK, but I cannot get to a point where I could reasonably get it into the soft top box with a view to closing the cover. I've read the threads about CPR maneuvers and I take Tom's point that these cars were designed by Ze Germans and so we shouldn't need to stand on the cover to close it. I have therefore posted a few photos of my hold in the as-good-as-folded position in the hope that some kind fellow can spot the obvious mistake I'm making. FYI, the hood is made by Kal-Glass (no idea whether they're any good or not) and has numerous rips to the right top where it has caught in the frame a lot - almost one rip per bow. Please tell me what I'm doing wrong or how I can get a quart into a pint pot!
I also have to repair the tears as a new roof is not in the budget. Do I need to get the repair vulcanized, as the roof seems to be made of a canvas-type material?
Thanks,
James
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Time for a short update.
Soft top: The hood needs replacing but the job is $$$ and is a way down the list of priorities. It still doesn't like to go into the soft top box without a good deal of pressure. I had cause to visit Chelsea Classics (the largest seller of Pagodas in the UK - they say about 130 or so per year, mostly 280's, they say they find it hard to shift others; they also provided the car for the excellent Pagoda clip on google.video driven by Jeremy Clarkson that someone listed on this site a few weeks ago) and had a go closing the hood on one of their 280's with a new one just fitted. Now I know how a hood should go in - i.e. very easily indeed. I remain some way from that kind of closure.
Engine: My mechanic has looked it over and declared it "OK." The points needed to be replaced and he has serviced the car. He is not an MB specialist, but rather specialises in GB cars, mostly Jags and Healeys. I disucssed using synthetic oils, but he was set against, so we're back with mineral oils - 20W/50 is what he's used, which is pretty thick! He has also put in IGK platinum plugs (he'd already done this and said that they were correct for the car - I should have said stock coppers; I'm going to leave them in as it's my fault for not specifying in detail. I know most will say keep coppers there). The timing chain and tensioners are fine; he's going to set the valves, etc and have a stab at getting the engine running less rich. We'll see how he gets on. Having tightened the fan belt adjuster at the alternator, the fan is now touching the radiator. More work needed there.
Body work: It was good to see the car on a lift for the first time. The underside is pretty good except where gallons of water sat in the drivers side foot well for God knows how long. The front and rear floor pans will be cut out and new ones welded in. This job will cost the most. Otherwise, the body work is surprisingly good. I wish I knew where the car came from in the US, as it seems well cared for by and large. The exhause has been badly fitted and we'll cut that off and re-weld, replacing the missing heat shields.
Suspension: The car failed the TUV on numerous things. (Though they didn't pick up on the kingpins needing repair!) The rear shocks need replacing; I'm going to get Koni's. (Especially after watching the blacklick video on google http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6010922069310307017) I need new engine mounts and sub frame mounts. Most of the other rubbers need to be replaced also, but these will be done in slower time. The car is down on the left (or up on the right; not a TUV test fail, so something I'll broach later). Massive thanks for JeffC280SL for his advice and files. I am thinking about replacing the springs as I met a guy who makes them and offers a good deal from the UK - he'll make a set (4) to any spec you want for a little over 200 pounds plus shipping; progressive, normal, etc anything you specify. I think that's pretty good.
Interior: I DO have to replace the seatbelts - v annoyed about that. My thanks to MDSALEMI for the 'how to fix seatbelts' file. Not looking forward to that job. The seats are better - very grateful to 66andBlue who suggested using a stiff-ish piece of industrial grade carpet between the springs and pads to stiffen things up; that worked really well, thanks Alfred. I also fixed the clock using the excellent clock fixing posts. It really was the little piece of solder and it really was (quite) simple. (The burns on my hands from the soldering iron should be hardly visible in a few months).
I have replaced the tubing that drains water from the firewall into the engine bay, and have re-affixed the ariel to the wing (fender). The only new problem is that the speedo doesn't seem to work.
Anyway, all in all good news. Did the daftest thing and bought the car unseen from the internet (THAT site) and may just about have got away with it to a large degree. It goes to show that it is possible to enter into Pagoda ownership without breaking the bank up front. (That, no doubt, will come later).
Finally, I would have been utterly stuffed and lost without this most excellent site and the amazingly helpful people that populate it.
I will post some pics soon - about a month or so by the time I'm ready to shoot for a re-match against the TUV meisters.
James
-
I wouldn't rely too much on what Chelsea cars have to say, they may well sell a lot of 113's but they are awful. I have never known a car ( and I know many ) that has been what they claimed it was and that didn't need masses of work done. The mechanical warranty they offer is limited to £500!!
I so nearly bought one myself but upon the final inspection found it to be a rot box, not what they either claimed or tried to hide.
Try some of the others in town Silver arrows is where I got mine.
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
Time for a short update.
Soft top: The hood needs replacing but the job is $$$ and is a way down the list of priorities. It still doesn't like to go into the soft top box with a good deal of pressure. I had cause to visit Chelsea Classics (the largest seller of Pagodas in the UK - they say about 130 or so per year, mostly 280's, they say they find it hard to shift others; they also provided the car for the excellent Pagoda clip on google.video driven by Jeremy Clarkson that someone listed on this site a few weeks ago) and had a go closing the hood on one of their 280's with a new one just fitted. Now I know how a hood should go in - i.e. very easily indeed. I remain some way from that kind of closure.
Engine: My mechanic has looked it over and declared it "OK." The points needed to be replaced and he has serviced the car. He is not an MB specialist, but rather specialises in GB cars, mostly Jags and Healeys. I disucssed using synthetic oils, but he was set against, so we're back with mineral oils - 20/50, which is pretty thick! He has also put in IGK platinum plugs (he'd already done this and said that they were correct for the car - I should have said stock coppers; I'm going to leave them in as it's my fault for not specifying in detail. I know most will say keep coppers there). The timing chain and tensioners are fine; he's going to set the valves, etc and have a stab at getting the engine running less rich. We'll see how he gets on. Having tightened the fan belt adjuster at the alternator, the fan is now touching the radiator. More work needed there.
Body work: It was good to see the car on a lift for the first time. The underside is pretty good except where gallons of water sat in the drivers side foot well for God knows how long. The front and rear floor pans will be cut out and new ones welded in. This job will cost the most. Otherwise, the body work is surprisingly good. I wish I knew where the car came from in the US, as it seems well cared for by and large. The exhause has been badly fitted and we'll cut that off and re-weld, replacing the missing heat shields.
Suspension: The car failed the TUV on numerous things. (Though they didn't pick up on the kingpins needing repair!) The rear shocks need replacing; I'm going to get Koni's. (Especially after watching the blacklick video on google http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6010922069310307017) I need new engine mounts and sub frame mounts. Most of the other rubbers need to be replaced also, but these will be done in slower time. The car is down on the left (or up on the right; not a TUV test fail, so something I'll broach later). Massive thanks for JeffC280SL for his advice and files. I am thinking about replacing the springs as I met a guy who makes them and offers a good deal from the UK - he'll make a set (4) to any spec you want for a little over 200 pounds plus shipping; progressive, normal, etc anything you specify. I think that's pretty good.
Interior: I DO have to replace the seatbelts - v annoyed about that. My thanks to MDSALEMI for the 'how to fix seatbelts' file. Not looking forward to that job. The seats are better - very grateful to 66andBlue who suggested using a stiff-ish piece of industrial grade carpet between the springs and pads to stiffen things up; that worked really well, thanks Alfred. I also fixed the clock using the excellent clock fixing posts. It really was the little piece of solder and it really was (quite) simple. (The burns on my hands from the soldering iron should be hardly visible in a few months).
I have replaced the tubing that drains water from the firewall into the engine bay, and have re-affixed the ariel to the wing (fender). The only new problem is that the speedo doesn't seem to work.
Anyway, all in all good news. Did the daftest thing and bought the car unseen from the internet (THAT site) and may just about have got away with it to a large degree. It goes to show that it is possible to enter into Pagoda ownership without breaking the bank up front. (That, no doubt, will come later).
Finally, I would have been utterly stuffed and lost without this most excellent site and the amazingly helpful people that populate it.
I will post some pics soon - about a month or so by the time I'm ready to shoot for a re-match against the TUV meisters.
James
Nick350
r107 SL red
-
Hi James,
try this guy for your speedo, he has just refurbished one I bought and it's perfect. He also set the mileage to match my old broken one.
http://www.jdo1.co.uk/page23.html
paulr
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Nick, I would agree, CC have a very dubious reputation,I was always very impressed by Silver Arrows, however my car came from a private source in the end.
James on the suspension side, do some searches on this site and you should get some good information on what is best for springs and shocks.
My preference having tried various options was standard rate springs, standard front shocks and adjustable Konis on the rear.
Good luck, Rob
Rob Walker
1968 280SL papyrus white/green leather
Spain and Turkey
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Paulr - thanks for the speedo guy; I'll see what the problem is and if it needs to go for specialist care, I'll hoof it off to your chap.
Rob/Nick,
I have to agree with you about CC. I looked at a load of their cars; very pretty paint and nice new leather/hoods, but skin deep. Using the info gained from this site I was able to see many defects and bodges with all the cars I saw. Several were touted as being Roger Edwards rebuilds, but they didn't look that hot close up. One of the salesmen I spoke to was clueless, although I did meet the owner and he know a good amount. We had a good chat; he makes no bones about it, though, he's there to shift cars. Their pricing policy is simple, it seems to me: look at the engine size badge on the boot/trunk, insert decimal point between the middle and last digits, and stick a 'pound' sign in front. Almost to a car their 230's were 23-24K and the 280's were...28K! I certainly wouldn't have bought one of their cars at that price and in that condition. For example, 2 of the cars I looked at had engine mounts that had totally collapsed. Still, I guess at 120-140 cars a year someone is buying them.
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Hi James
I have had water in my car too and fingers crossed have traced it to the seals on the wiper spigots. So each time I wash wipe the screen the water sits in that little egg cup sized indentation and seeps through to the floor. I am also having the screen rubber replaced and the door rubbers and the hardtop seals and the heater matrix done. Not, actually to sort out the water but these all are areas of water ingress. In the meantime, I used Cat litter under newspapers under the carpets , Just remember to hoover it out and used these mini crystal dehumidifiers ( http://www.airandwatercentre.com/store/SEURLF/ASP/SFS/CID.4/PID.111/SFE/productdetails.htm ). They do help.
My car also sits a liitle low on my side and I have recently bitten the bullet and am having a load of annoying things sorted out in one go as the car is basically OK. One of these, and it's the biggest is to have ALL the rear suspension rubbers replaced. I thought it was the shocks too but in my case it's not.
paulr
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Hey Paulr, any problem with cats trying to get in the car at night? Just kidding. I was looking for your post on rattles in the dash -- because, oh no!, I have the same rattle ;) . Good luck James and Paul.
James
63 230SL
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Paul,
Can you tell me what you do to sort out the wiper spigots? Is there some relatively cheap fix, such as replacing a seal or something? (Would that it were as simple as removing the wiper arm, undoing a few nuts and changing a washer - no doubt it involves taking out the rear axel or something equally complex).
As for the water in the car, I found that my firewall drainage hoses had perished. They were original, but had become blocked, thus water ingressing thru the air scoop drained into the floor, instead of out of the engine bay. An easy fix using plastic pipeing, if not pretty.
I am also going to have a shot at replacing the rubbers on and under the springs. I've got some good info from the BBB which I was sent if you don't have it. Have you seen the Blacklick video on google that talks about suspension? It has some great info, including a part where the Tom Villers uses pipe gaskets as spacers to fine tune ride height. I've sent an e-mail to McMaster car, who make this item, to see how much they'll charge to ship the pipe gasket thingys to Europe, as I think I'm going to try them. I'll post the answer here if/when I get the response. Did you also see that I found a guy who can make a new set of springs (4) - progressive or stock; whatever you like - for about GBP200? I'm thinking about changing these when I get to the suspension and he offers good vaule. There's some great stuff on this site about getting amongst it all. Just bought my spring compressors yesterday!
More of a dog person myself, but I'd be really interested to hear your plan for the wipers!!
James
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I found this cable in behind my glove compartment. Can anyone please tell me what it is for? (My cigar lighter doesn't work - could this have something to do with it?)
James
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Hi James
I took it off as it made me seem smug.
quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber
Hey Paulr, any problem with cats trying to get in the car at night? Just kidding. I was looking for your post on rattles in the dash -- because, oh no!, I have the same rattle ;) . Good luck James and Paul.
James
63 230SL
paulr
-
The wiper issue is being done as part of a much more involved screen out and dashboard restoration with the wiper mechanism being taken out from underneath. I imagine though that your idea is right as the rubber must be at the topside.
I live in Central London and only have a secure outside space, nowhere to tinker or do anything other than give it a good polish. So, everything is done by the brilliant Cedric ( actually Paul ) at Roger Edwards Motors. I don't really mind spending the money with them as they do a great job and they get to know everything about the car. They knew it about 10 years ago before the previous owner and I bought it. Small world.
I am having the axle rubbers done including the big one at the top. It's a £1000 job though but as they have never been done before and my rear ride height is low and lopsided it seems worth it. It isn't the springs or shocks, just rubbers. I had all the tyres changed and they have helped the ride quality a lot. I did see the video but it was a little involved for my needs. To be honest, I think it's quite easy to obsess about these things and I've spent many sleepless nights planning and spending but with respect I'm not sure that minute adjustments to ride height etc are that necessary, well for me anyway.
I'm enjoying hearing about your journey and can't wait to see the finished result.
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
Paul,
Can you tell me what you do to sort out the wiper spigots? Is there some relatively cheap fix, such as replacing a seal or something? (Would that it were as simple as removing the wiper arm, undoing a few nuts and changing a washer - no doubt it involves taking out the rear axel or something equally complex).
As for the water in the car, I found that my firewall drainage hoses had perished. They were original, but had become blocked, thus water ingressing thru the air scoop drained into the floor, instead of out of the engine bay. An easy fix using plastic pipeing, if not pretty.
I am also going to have a shot at replacing the rubbers on and under the springs. I've got some good info from the BBB which I was sent if you don't have it. Have you seen the Blacklick video on google that talks about suspension? It has some great info, including a part where the Tom Villers uses pipe gaskets as spacers to fine tune ride height. I've sent an e-mail to McMaster car, who make this item, to see how much they'll charge to ship the pipe gasket thingys to Europe, as I think I'm going to try them. I'll post the answer here if/when I get the response. Did you also see that I found a guy who can make a new set of springs (4) - progressive or stock; whatever you like - for about GBP200? I'm thinking about changing these when I get to the suspension and he offers good vaule. There's some great stuff on this site about getting amongst it all. Just bought my spring compressors yesterday!
More of a dog person myself, but I'd be really interested to hear your plan for the wipers!!
James
paulr
-
Radio??
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
I found this cable in behind my glove compartment. Can anyone please tell me what it is for? (My cigar lighter doesn't work - could this have something to do with it?)
James
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Glennard, thanks for the suggestion, but no. The radio works fine without it. So does the clock and the other dash instruments, less the speedo but that's another yet to be addressed problem.
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Paul,
quote:
my rear ride height is low and lopsided it seems worth it
Could it be the 'heavy' wallet? :D
naj
68 280SL
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quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
I found this cable in behind my glove compartment. Can anyone please tell me what it is for? (My cigar lighter doesn't work - could this have something to do with it?)
James
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) wire.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/200712813202_wire.jpg)
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Does your Glove box light work?
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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Bob,
It did. I haven't checked it since I took out the glove box and put it back in but the cable carrying current to the bulb connects on my car via a screw terminal and not a plug so I am pretty certain that isn't it.
I wondered if it had a/c once? Could it be for that?
James
-
Looks like the plug in power to the original radio(Becker/Blaup-??). Do you have a replacement radio? One of those plug is hot, if it is still connected. The other is ground.
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
Glennard, thanks for the suggestion, but no. The radio works fine without it. So does the clock and the other dash instruments, less the speedo but that's another yet to be addressed problem.
-
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
Did you also see that I found a guy who can make a new set of springs (4) - progressive or stock; whatever you like - for about GBP200?
James,
Hi. I believe you have a 230SL. Here's some factory spring info:
Front spring MB part number: 113 321 04 04
Free length of spring: 387.5 mm
Installation length of spring under 611 kp load: 253 mm (varies from +5 mm to -2 mm)
Spring travel per 100 kp of load: 21.9 mm
Wire thickness: 15.6 mm
Mean winding diameter: 110
Number of windings: 9.75
Rear spring MB part number: 113 324 04 04
Free length of spring: 289.5 mm
Installation length of spring under 500 kp load: 214 mm (varies from +9 mm to -9 mm)
Spring travel per 100 kp of load: 15.1 mm
Wire thickness: 15.8 mm
Mean winding diameter: 120
Number of windings: 5.5
I hope you can get some good ones made from this info. This info came from the MB Technical Data Passenger Cars, Oct. 1966 Edition (reprint 1992).
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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it will be much lighter once this job is through !
quote:
Originally posted by naj
Paul,
quote:
my rear ride height is low and lopsided it seems worth it
Could it be the 'heavy' wallet? :D
naj
68 280SL
[:0]
paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL
-
Originally posted by jameshoward
Paul,
Can you tell me what you do to sort out the wiper spigots? Is there some relatively cheap fix, such as replacing a seal or something? (Would that it were as simple as removing the wiper arm, undoing a few nuts and changing a washer - no doubt it involves taking out the rear axel or something equally complex).
As for the water in the car, I found that my firewall drainage hoses had perished. They were original, but had become blocked, thus water ingressing thru the air scoop drained into the floor, instead of out of the engine bay. An easy fix using plastic pipeing, if not pretty.
I am also going to have a shot at replacing the rubbers on and under the springs. I've got some good info from the BBB which I was sent if you don't have it. Have you seen the Blacklick video on google that talks about suspension? It has some great info, including a part where the Tom Villers uses pipe gaskets as spacers to fine tune ride height. I've sent an e-mail to McMaster car, who make this item, to see how much they'll charge to ship the pipe gasket thingys to Europe, as I think I'm going to try them. I'll post the answer here if/when I get the response. Did you also see that I found a guy who can make a new set of springs (4) - progressive or stock; whatever you like - for about GBP200? I'm thinking about changing these when I get to the suspension and he offers good vaule. There's some great stuff on this site about getting amongst it all. Just bought my spring compressors yesterday!
More of a dog person myself, but I'd be really interested to hear your plan for the wipers!!
James
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.....more of a dog person myself....
Me too!
meet Belly and Molly.
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paulr
lovely 1970 280 SL
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Paul,
My girls. It's tough getting them in the car. One on the back shelf who tries to eat anything that comes too close (very protective about the car) and the other in the passenger seat, or footwell depending on company.
Less importantly, tell me about your wiper solution if you have one yet. I'm also keen to sort out the water issue!
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quote:
Originally posted by paulr
meet Belly and Molly.
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Paul,
Nice poochies! Here's my wife & I with Dougan & Mackenzie.
http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/rwmastel/2006121215459_Copy%20of%20Pic%20017a.jpg
Maybe we need to start a "Pagodas & Pets" thread and not hijack this one???
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Rodd,
Good idea! (Especially as I had a call from my welder yesterday am about to get the car back. I've some shots to post following floor panel replacement and general overhaul. We've done the engine mounts, subframe mounts, un-bent the alternator so it sits at the correct angle, etc. I'll get around to that over the next few days. Can't wait to see how the car looks).
Incidentally, for anyone that is still bothering to read this, SLS in Germany are superb. I spoke to a fellow called Herr Ahlf. His English is perfect and he gave me some sage advice on some of the parts I was ordering. For example, I ordered a new firewall pad (I don't have one at present) and he said that whilst SLS had some, he advised against buying it at present. Some people have had trouble getting it to stick properly and the layers come apart. They are designing and trialling a new one that should be much more like MB's original REPLACEMENT pad and it should be available in a few months. I'll post when it's out. He also pointed out that this is a part they make and supply to MB and most if not all other suppliers.
They still have no rear heat shields. However, at almost 200 Euros, I wouldn't be buying one. We've adapted one from a Jag or Healey (can't remember which) and that cost next to nothing.
James
-
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
Rodd,
Incidentally, for anyone that is still bothering to read this, SLS in Germany are superb. I spoke to a fellow called Herr Ahlf. His English is perfect and he gave me some sage advice on some of the parts I was ordering.
James
I was pleased with the service and quality of the parts I got from SLS, but the air freght company they used (Schenker AG) to ship to the USA took 35 days to deliver the package and socked me with $389.00 in COD fees to pay US customs the $43.00 in tarrifs that were due and to deliver the package from Philedelphia to Georgia. The $200.00 shipping that I was charged by SLS only got the package from Frankfurt to Philadelphia, but it did get there overnight.
Al
66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket
-
Al,
Use Van Djik in Europe - they use regular Netherland post
and their service there is good - same day shipping. I think
Frank there is the owner's son. Also good and honest advise.
Maybe a few cents more than SLS but overall shipping is just
24 euros for any purchase.
Abbas
280SL W113 1969 Ivory
E280 W124 1995 Silver
-
quote:
Originally posted by Abbas
Use Van Djik in Europe
http://www.classicsl.com/
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
-
quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
... The seats are better - very grateful to 66andBlue who suggested using a stiff-ish piece of industrial grade carpet between the springs and pads to stiffen things up; that worked really well, thanks Alfred. ...
Hi James,
did you take any pictures by chance when you put the "stiffeners" in? Unfortunately, I lost mine that I took when I was watching this procedure at the Werner Company. It might be useful to see how it is done for those who are planning to do this as a Winter job.
Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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Hereiwth an update on my struggle against the German state motoring regulations and my attempts to get my '66 230SL on the road.
A canter thru the posts below will show that I've had to do quite a bit of structural work to the car: new drivers side floor, new mounts all round, rear shocks, exhaust work, etc. All that is now done. The final major task (we thought) we completed today: replacing the rubber bushes on the springs and the control arm bushings.
I read up a lot on how to get to the springs, both on this site and in the BBB and the Haynes Manual (or book of lies, as I heard it referred to recently). Some pointers follow in paragraphs that are easily ignored if you are not interested in this job:
Removal and refitting of rear springs and rubbers: First, make sure you get the right thickness rubber pads. All original springs are colour coded (See photo)
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Spring colour code RED.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/200741101844_Spring%20colour%20code%20RED.JPG)
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This one is coded RED. I found the 4 yellow marks confusing - they are not part of the code that tells you which rubber pads you need. The RED code is important. WHen x-ref'd with the BBB it tells you what tickness pads your car was originally fitted with (related to things like the number of add extras it was built with such as AC, power steering, etc). The red mark was covered in crud and so I didn't find it until we'd removed the spring.
Removing the spring is simple if you use a spring compressor. (available in any tool store but get GOOD ONES - mine were 300mm which are really far too long, but they'd contain a nuclear blast and so were workable; I could have cut them down but to do so would have taken an age because of the grade of the metal). Stick the car on stands; release bottom of shock absorber; compress the side of the axel you want to work on; install compressors; lower jack; wrestle for 30 mins with spring and behold - you can now replace the rubbers. One of my bottom rubbers was totally gone and the other was in pieces; the top rubbers were in better visual condition but had become brittle and broke easily. Note that both top and bottom rubbers have an exact place in which they are seated. This is not a hard job provided you get smaller spring compressors - we made it more difficult that it needed to be.
Replaceing front spring rubbers: First, my spring compressors were too big to get into the spring, do we needed a different approach. After talking to several people and reading up on experiences here, we decided to remove the 4 bolts that secure the lower control arm and drop the arm under the springs pressure using a very good and large jack. NOTE: removing the front springs in this fashing is quite sporting, so take car. We did it on a good floor with lots of space and a large jack with the car on stands. It is perfectly workable if care is taken.
So: if required spray all bolts you intend to work on with duck oil or wd40 (duck oil is better as WD40 is hydroscopic) the day before and let the oil penetrate. Day 2: crack off all the bolts with the car on its wheels to avoid jerking the car around on stands. Jack the car, put on stands as shown at the back of the photos. Place the jack under the lower control arm (see photo below) and raise the jack until it starts to compress the spring (it will lift the car a little off the stands; if it lifts it a lot, adjust the jack positioning and try again):
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Note that the jack plate looks like it is barely on the arm - first, if you have a rubber block jack plate which has more grip, use it. HOwever, note that as you put the jack up and down, the amount of control arm in contact with the plate will change. However, in our case this was not a big problem because of the size of the jack - it was not about to fly out from under the car under the pressure of the spring - the same might not be said for smaller trolley jacks.
With the 4 bolts undone (we also did the control arm busing as well so you can see the new one half in place in the photo) gently lower the jack decompressing the spring.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Releasing spring tension using jack.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/200741104118_Releasing%20spring%20tension%20using%20jack.jpg)
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Out pops the spring, at which point you can change the rubber pads. Mine were OK, but brittle.
Getting the spring back in was more complex, but only because one has to align the lower control arm with the bolt holds. The wheel has a tendency to push outwards as you jack up the control arm, thus making it impossible to line up the bolt and hole. However, and again using a big back, it is possible to adjust the position of hte jack undre pressure and align the holes for the botls. I wouldn't be happy doing this with a small jack, however, as it could slip. Note that the wheel moves freely on its upper mount.
With the hols aligned, it's simply a case of putting the bolts back in. We then did the control arm bushing. There were very corroded and had to be cut off as the collar was 'welded' to the bolt over which it ran. Here is a photo of the new and old bushings together:
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) old and new busings.jpg (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/jameshoward/200741104825_old%20and%20new%20busings.jpg)
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If all of that sounds simple, it took about 8 hours to do. To do it again, less the cutting of bolts, would take half that time. The front springs are quite simple, although caution is required.
To pass the TUV I have also had to put in 3 point belts. Mdsalemi sent me his instructions - they are great. It was quite a simple job and they work fine. I will do a separate post about this as lots of people seem to be asking questions about it. I just need to take some photos.
I have replaced my rear shocks with koni adjustables (I wish I'd bought the ones for the front - too late now; will do that later).
I have fixed the clock using the excellent instructions on this site (my favourite job as I only sustained minor burns doing the soldering)
The floor panels are all in. The king pins have been repaired (badly but now rectified) and are now fine.
After all of this, the car has passed its TUV and I now have my license plates! Hooray!
I took the car on a celebratory drive to fill her up. It was about a 5 mile 'round trip and she ran well. However, there is a squeak from the rear wheel and the steering felt very light. On return, we checked the hubs for heat (back of hand against the wheel hub). Both front hubs were hot, so we will strip them down this week to see what lies beneath.
We also pulled off the wheels to check the brakes. I'll buy new front pads as they're on the limits. The rear shoes also need replacing, and we'll sort out the squeak then. If anyone has the part number for the rear shoes, please let me have it!!
The car has also had a compression test. According to the guy who did it, the engine should be dead. It came up to 7.something bar. I As soon as the brakes and wheels are done, I will take it out for a long, long drive and see if I can't burn off the carbon that may be causing the compression problem. We'll retest soon.
Since I've been working on the car (with very good help) I've decided that I was on a one way trip to over doing it. Having been to the Essen classic show this week in...Essen, Germany...and seen some of the cars there, I think some people remove all the character from their cars. This couldn't be more true of those muppets who take perfectly good classic cars and then put ABS, AMG engines and what have you inside them (someone had a thread about the company something 'tronik'- I saw their stand and their cars are just God awful). I think I like my car the way it is. There is lots more to do, but after almost 6 months it's on the road (has been on the road) and is legal. I still need a new upholstery and a new roof, but it can wait.
Thanks for all the help and advice from everyone. I hope to be able to start giving some back as I learn more about the car. I will post some photos of her on this page just as soon as I get the last brake jobs done.
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James,
This sort of information is ideal for an online Users Manual, so I wonder if you would think about making a separate "Replace Spring Rubbers TOUR" with the information and photos you have included in this thread?
The presentation is great.
My worry is that it will end up lost/buried in this post and in the future hard/impossible to find.
Have you replaced the brake line hoses?
One of the known problems with these cars is that the hoses can swell internally which restricts the return of brake fluid and obviously the brakes are held in the operate position.
I had this happen when I bought my 250sl. The car had been sitting for months at a time.
When I had the registration approved, within 2Km the rear brakes seized with a huge plume of blue smoke coming from the rhs rear caliper.
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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Bob,
Interesting. Agree about a tour. I can do that and will.
About the hoses - I am putting in an order for brake bits tomorrow. I have no clue when the hoses were last changed, and lots of the underside is in poor shape - I imagine they haven't been done for a long time. Would you therefore recommend I should change them anyway?
I have to address the bearings in all wheels this week, and will also change the shoes at the rear and pads at the front so would doing the hoses be a significant additional job in terms of money, time and complexity?
Your advice would be most welcome - like I said, I'm putting in the order tomorrow and would rather get all of what I need in one go, so if anything springs to mind, let me know.
James
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quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
Bob,
Interesting. Agree about a tour. I can do that and will.
About the hoses - I am putting in an order for brake bits tomorrow. I have no clue when the hoses were last changed, and lots of the underside is in poor shape - I imagine they haven't been done for a long time. Would you therefore recommend I should change them anyway?
I have to address the bearings in all wheels this week, and will also change the shoes at the rear and pads at the front so would doing the hoses be a significant additional job in terms of money, time and complexity?
Your advice would be most welcome - like I said, I'm putting in the order tomorrow and would rather get all of what I need in one go, so if anything springs to mind, let me know.
James
James, you can test your wheels by raising the front and just rotating each wheel. If they spin freely you may not need to replace the hoses, similarly with the rear wheels (but miss adjusted rear brakes could give incorrect feed back).
If you can do the work yourself then I suggest you do a check of the pads before ordering replacements.
I would advise you to replace the hoses as well as the pads and shoes.
It all depends on how deep your pockets are and how big a job you want it to become.
One thing I found. I bought aftermarket parts which all turned out to be ATE equipment (OEM). The boxes did not have a star on them, but the boxes get thrown away anyhow.
MB prices were outrageous. I am sure you have read my comments in other threads. I saved big dollars on parts which then allowed me to pay professionals to do the job.
What is wrong with the wheel bearings?
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto