Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: n/a on June 27, 2006, 20:44:46
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Dear Fellow Members;
Don't get me wrong...I love my Pagoda and it is my daily driver except during the winter...but lately I find myself really wanting a series I or II Jaguar E-Type...is this sacrilegious? Granted, I also would like a 60's vintage Ferrari as well. Anyone out there who has or would like to add to their Pagoda another 1960's sports car?
R/
Joe
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How long do you have? Although most of mine are not strictly 60s...
A Dino
Citroen SM
A W108 3.5 convertible (not a sports car)
Datsun 240z
1965 Mustang
And so on.
And yes, I feel dirty at the thought of relegating my Pagoda to "part of a collection" - not that building one is exactly likely! :mrgreen:
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Joe, I just bought myself a 66 Mustang GT fastback, mostly for its looks. I also like how different it is to my Pagoda in every way. They look beautiful together and yes I do love cars from the 60's. The Pagoda is as refined as the Mustang is brutish. Overall, the Pagoda can run circles around the Mustang and matches better to modern day cars. The Mustang is fun for straight line romps. Yes, E-Types are beautiful cars as well. They sound and smell great! And such sensual lines.
Sam
Sam
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I have always wanted an early Porsche 911 and almost bought one on two separate ocassions only to have reality set in.
I debate myself about whether it makes sense to have two two-seaters even though I have three young kids. I'd be interested to hear from other members who have a Pagoga and a 911 or Jaguar about the differences in driveability, reliability, performance and quirkyness of each.
A good freind of mine has a Jaguar E-Type is is always complaining about oil leaks and mechanical issues with the car. I think German engineering far exceeded the Britsh engineering of the day-- although they do have some sexy lines.
Ken G
1971 280 SL
Silver/red
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Other cars ive considered
911 late 60's with the cool looking wheels .... really dig this car.
356 another nice car. Trying to persuade my best friend to get this.
Dino 246 ..... Very very Nice car but seems a bit daunting in terms of maintence costs.
I also like the Karmon Ghia. This car has very cool lines and character.
Most of the usual suspects im guessing .....
E-type wise, i've always wondered what other pagoda owners thought of the E-type... although i do recognise is as being a very striking car, maybe its not as art deco as the pagoda is to me. On the plus side its probably closer to a real sports car and has a cracking V12 and is widely publicised to be the one of the best looking car every made.
Kay
Kay
Euro 280sl LHD Auto.
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Cars I would most like to have in addition to the Pagoda:
Mustang 1967 Fastback
Jaguar E-type 2+2 Coupe V12
Aston Martin DB3
Ferrari GTB/4 coupe
Lancia Fulvia coupe
Porsche 911 'from the seventies'
Realistically, though, I don't think I will ever own more than one classic car and the Pagoda to me is the most desirable of them all ...
Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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You will be hard pressed to find a decent Aston DB3 today for less than $100,000.
You can find an Aston DB2 that's decent for $40,000 to $80,000, with luck.
The numbers are very small, about 1000 and 450, respectively, if I recall correctly. However, the craftsmanship is astounding.
Those BMW coupe from the 60s are pretty cool, but I would agree that the Porsche 356 is a very comparible car to consider as well. It's a question of what you want. Everybody says those Jags have some mechanical issues -- I don't know one way or the other. The series 1 cars are especially clean looking, and have the revvy 6-cylinder engine more of the spirit of the XK150.
Good luck and let us know.
1967 230SL (Manual, rustless driver)
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I considered a Porsche 356 and a Jaguar E-type.
I like the design of the 356 convertible, however the performance of the engine is simply not enough. The E-type is a real rocket, however I do not like the design.
The Pagoda simply is the best match of style and performance in a classic car.
Ben
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I'd kinda like a 60-something Beetle Bug and/or a similar-age VW Bus. Call me nuts. That's for my alter ego. I wouldn't mind a nice 65 Mustang, GTO, or maybe a 68 Camaro SS.
Oh, I forgot a 60s corvette as well.
James
63 230SL
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Hey Guys;
Thanks for the input....I also have an old Mustang, a 1966 which I am preparing to restore. If memory serves me correctly, the last time I drove it, I thought a Mustang 289 could easily out accelerate a Pagoda...the SLs staring out in 2nd really poke along. If I manually shift my Pagoda automatic, she will move 0-60 in about 10 seconds, although I cringe when she tachs over 5 grand...a lot of parts spinning and yanking every millisecond. Certainly the Pagoda can easily out corner an Mustang.
I once owned a Rolls Cloud III...wish I never sold that car. With regard to Porche's, I gotta say I can't get over how that air cooled/oil cooled rear boxer engine thing produces so many HP and so much torque...what did Ferdinand have that Rudy Uhlenhaut didn't? Why can't Pagoda's tear up the street like a Porsche???
R/
Joe
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Not in place of my pagoda, but in addition to...
60's to early 70's Alfa Romeo GTV
BMW 3.0 CS
280 SE 3.5 Coupe (room for the family)
It's interesting all the Mustang interest. I see some resemblance between the early Mustangs and a Pagoda with the hardtop on. Does anyone else see it?
Pete S.
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Hi Guys and Joe,
Well, I tried to load a pic of red Carling parked next to my better half's red Series 2 E-type in the driveway, but it didn't work. He loves that car to death, and there have been absolutely no problems with it in the past 10 years. It goes like a rocket and IMHO it's the sexiest car around. It is a beast, however, not a lady like my Pagoda... our neighbors are convinced we are crazy...
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
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http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/70chevelle/200361984013_chvtest.JPG http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/70chevelle/200361885444_280sl2.jpg
The above are pic's of my two classics. I actually added the Pagoda to my Chevelle :D The Chevelle has been my dream car forever and it took me over 8 years to complete. The Pagoda was an "offer I couldn't refuse". I've done work on the Pagoda, but won't start the restoration until I have mechanical issues or the kids finish college. The Jag is a beautiful car, and my understanding is that it may be a better investment, valuewise, than the SL. None of these cars seem to be losing any value, so if a deal presents itself, go for it! But be aware of the problems it may create. Can you just imagine walking into the garage in the morning, late for a meeting, and HAVING TO DECIDE WHICH ONE TO TAKE? :D
Finally, my dream list:
1) Shelby AC Cobra - This may be my next project (kit, not original)
2) 1970 Mopar Roadrunner or Superbird, with drop nose & wing. (Originals are auctioning over $250k, so I don't think I'll have one)
70 Chevelle 13.7 @ 99.7
70 280 SL Silver/Black top
05 C230 Kompressor
03 Dodge Durango SLT
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Today a friend and I were complaining to each other about the price of parts for his '70 Porche and my Pogoda. We talked about how much easier it would be if we just had Corvettes....then we decided that we each had what we wanted. What I would love to add is a 300SL but more likely I will add a 60s or 70s Mercedes sedan to Pogoda one day
Daryl
'64 230 SL
Serial # 508
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I have owned a 1964 XKE convertible in the past, and sold it when I went overseas. When I returned to the USA, I bought a 230SL. I thought that the XKE was perhaps smoother on the road, but I felt that the pagoda was (and still is) a better car overall.
Those of you that like to work on the linkage system for the pagodas, it is a lot easier than balancing the 3 Jaguar carburetors.
Both cars are excellent cars and should be recognized as two of the best in their era. I feel that the pagoda is much more of a classic than the XKE.
Ken
1966 230SL (euro, 4-speed)
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A very intresting book that documents the first XKE HP 9600 is lavished with the history of this particular car the advertising of the new model and alot of inside information. Written by renounded Author Philip Porter This book is a must for any sports car enthusiast. (The most famous car in the world) The story of the first E type by Orion books ISBN 0 75283 181 X. Excellant detailed color & black & white photographs are a plus to this publication.
Another good publication Thoroughbred & Classic Cars December 1999 has a good article on both the XKE and the 280SL called Double Agents by Lloyd MCNeil.
The book HP 9600 is a book you savor like fine wine . I remember finding a used copy in a frequented used book store for my friend who owns an early 1964 XKE coupe after reading some of the book I questioned why I gave it to him? Uh so off I was to fine a clean copy for my self.
Bob Geco
1968 280SL
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I got to spend a summer in '64 driving my uncles E-type (roadster).... and for a 19 year old working in LA & OC it was as close to nirvana I'd experienced at the time --- if you get my drift. Interestingly though, at the time I'd just returned from living in Germany for several years and the pagoda SL was my then dream car.
But a couple of years ago I was driving thru the Sierra footills going all out in my 250SL... and a couple of E-type roadsters went by me on a hill and curve like I was standing still.... and I was going 90-95ish! That was the first time I thought about an E-type since I was 19.... and I've been half-heartedly looking into finding one to (roadster... not sure yet which version/years). Watching the pair go by me brought back all those memories of '64 .... no syncro in 1st gear... hold-downs for the engine lid.... flip switches (?.... whatever they're called) lined up on the dash.... and the acceleration! What a trip.
I'd put the E-Type Jag right up there as one of the classic's of classics along with the Pagoda.... though I agree whole-heartedly that the German engineering in the Pagoda is far and away better than the engineering in the E-type Jag..... refined and reliable engineered parts in the Pagoda... I'm still amazed when I take something apart to see the details in the engineered parts in my SL ('67 250SL) .... and I'm an engineer that appreciates the details that make a part more than just functional.... it's the refined reliability built into the design details that amazes me.
I think the biggest difference between the E-Type Jag and the 113 (besides their lines) is that one is a sports car without much in the way of creature comforts... somewhat more on the sparten side.... the other is a cruising tourer sports car... a lot more in the way of creature comforts. But, stiffen up the suspension in the pagoda and beef up the hp a couple notches, and methinks the 113 would match the E-Type as a true sports car performance of the times.
Longtooth
67 250SL US #113-043-10-002163
95 SL500
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I had a British friend who owned an E-type for 15 years. One day I asked him which is the best models. He told me E-II series 1965 -1968 as I remember. He said they had much better mechanics than the first series and they were still 6 -cylinders. The later 12 Cylinder models over heated very much and more expensive to fix. The value for E-II is about $45,000 - $50,000 with very few mechanics who know how to fix them.
There is one thing about the Pagoda that I find distinctive than
many other cars - front head light. They are vertical rather horizontal. Also they are very spacious for the driver not like many other or modern roadsters that make you feel like in a box.
Abbas
280SL W113 1969 Ivory
E280 W124 1995 Silver
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One simple thing I have come to appreciate now having some experience with the 230SL is that the parts, the mechanical parts under the hood and under the car, are much heavier than the parts in the other cars I have worked on from the era, Aston Martins and Alfa Romeos. I am not sure what all this really means, but perhaps there is some type of correlation between weight and thickness of the parts and their quality and durability. The parts are still the original ones, whereas the Alfa/Astons have been changed out by and large, if they've been used.
1967 230SL (Manual, rustless driver)
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My good friend just bought himself an E-type series I roadster. Prior to him getting the car I told him that I would outrun him if the course was reasonably twisted. Obviously he refused my claim stating that he had 60 more HP. I admit, it's is lightning fast straight out, scaringly in fact. However, the brakes are crap and the car doesn't feel so well balanced as the pagoda. Well we drove around on some small twisted roads this weekend, and was I right!!! Sure enough as soon as there was a straight he would catch in. But the moment the coad twisted a bit and especially when there was braking to do he fell behind and he even had some more modern tyres fitted. Another fact is that the Moss transmission in the E-type is dreadfull, not least 2nd gear. Sometimes it took ages for him to find it while my manual, though not being the best transmission Mercedes has built, was easy and reliable.
IMO People tend to forget that the pagodas, at least the 230 but also the 250 was designed with a smaller engine, but with far superior roadholding than contempory cars. That was actually the philosofy for Uhlenhaut when he constructed the car. This and the fact that many automatics (not least for the 280) were made and the fact that they attracted another audience and therefore image than E-typers, gives a false impression of the pagoda.
THe fact is that it (the 230) was as fast as a Ferrari 250 GT on a test in a French track, won the Liege-Sofia-Liege rally in pretty much standard trim, and could outrun the gullwing (especially on twisty roads) (all according to Meredith). So why people keep saying that "this is not a sportscar" is simply not right. They misunderstand the principle on which these cars were built. I remember I once saw a rally car (not even a WRC) leave a Lamborghini Diablo in its dust on a track, it's the same principle.
When it comes to design the E-type and the pagodas are very different, but equally wonderfull to look at. IMO the series I roadster is the best of the E's, but also the worst braker and most uncomfortable of them. However, I wont recommend buying a series I if you are taller than 180 cm, it simply gets to irritating when you have the top half of your head above the windscreen and can't see half of the road because of that. So Joe, the E-type is a beast, as Trice put it, but a wonderfull one!! Whereas the pagodas are better built, and more refined and comfortable.
Just my opinion based on field research :mrgreen:
Enjoy summer here on the northern hemisphere.
Ulrik
'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023
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quote:
Originally posted by France
Hi Guys and Joe,
Well, I tried to load a pic of red Carling parked next to my better half's red Series 2 E-type in the driveway, but it didn't work.
Hello Trice,
it must have been the color combination "red+red". How about "blue+silver"? They were both in my mechanic's garage today.
The E-type and the Pagoda are shapely indeed, and the 107 in the background isn't bad either - perhaps a little too obese for my taste, but that seems to be the trend now.
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But I believe that as a designer Albrecht von Goertz - who is now 92 - is right up there with Paul Bracq. His 507 is my dream car and his 503 is not far behind the Pagoda. Well, I'll keep on dreaming ..
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Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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Alfred, lovely pix! I had to get a 635 to soothe my longing for the 507 I'll never afford.
The Pag/Jag thing is fun. When we have ours both parked on the apron, everyone who goes by stops and asks questions. We enjoy having the choice of our "beast" or the "lady." Ulrik is right; the Pagoda is muuuuuch more comfortable than the XKE. However, with Carling's busy little engine (at least until JoeA gets her new diff to me) and the Jag's new 5-speed gearbox, the Jag is the undisputed fun ride at speed. Whereas my Carling garners wows from boys and girls alike, the Jag collects only men--it's definitely not a chick magnet because it's too esoteric and uncomfortable to get into.
Joe, I'm sure you know there are passionate advocates of one or another of the Series--people who are weighing the 1 vs. 2 know that the brakes and gears are rubbish on the Series 1 but think the styling and headlights are somehow "better." Many think the Series 2 is more masculine, and its mechanics are certainly less problematic. The new Classic and Thoro has a good article about why the 1 is "the" Series to have, which had my better half clucking and shaking his head. He's a big tall guy and the 1 is just too squeezed for him. On the other hand, there is a paradox there, because he doesn't seem to mind the contortions it takes to get into the GT40...To each his own--just know the pros and cons by plenty of reading.
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
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We used to have a Jag E Coupe 3.8 Series 1, 1964 back in the late 80es. It was light primrose with black interior and we bought it from a retired couple in L.A, California and got it shipped home to Denmark. It was totally original and almost rustfree and it drove excellent - when it worked... I still adore the unique lines of this vehicle, in my opinion it's one of the most beautiful cars ever made, but it's let down by poor quality. We finally got fed up with ours, it was a challenge to take it outside the city limit and basically we would not know if we would return by own engine power or behind a wrecker. The most troublesome area is the electrics, which is a very crude design with almost no relays and with a couple of large fuses only. Next frequent problem area is the overheating problems during city driving in the summer and the rear brakes, which are dreadful to work on. And finally is the rust issue, they seems to rust just about everywhere at an accelerated rate, especially with the agressive climate in Denmark - and we are living 300 m from the coast line. So our swop to the Pagoda meant realiable classic motoring, but I must admit that I get tempted every time I see a Series 1 Coupe E-type....
/Finn 8)
MB 230 SL Euro 4-speed silver metallic with black leather
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Ooooh, this is great. I can list the cars I'd like to own... in addition to a Pagoda.
Well, here's my selection:
1. Alfa Romeo 6C1750 or 2300 (ca 1925-50)
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2. Lancia Flaminia Zagato
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3. Ferrari 250GT Pinin Farina Cabriolet series 2
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4. Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione (modern)
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Peter
Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280 SL
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Peter, I also have owned a few Alfas from the 50s and love their early Pinninfarina designs.
I would add the 8C 2900 (otherwise known as "the 2.9") from the late 30s.
The Disco Volante also comes to mind, other than it simply became airborn at speed. It was a spaceframe design.
And the 16C Bimotore is another something I want to go to the museum to see, which had the two inline 8C one front, one rear, sliding that car around the corners with the four superchargers on board. How insane and unsuccessfully fascinating, really.
But, in the realm of realistic cars, the Giulietta is a little jewel with 8000 rpm range, and often/almost always rusted out. If you know them, you really have to rev the Veloces pretty high just to get started from still.
I am glad these two makers still have excellent museums -- some day I want to visit.
1967 230SL (Manual, rustless driver)
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My first car was an Austin Healy Sprite. When I bought my Pagoda 5 years ago I seriously considered an Austin Healy 3000. It was the engineering of the Pagoda over the British cars that convinced me the Pagoda is a superior vehicle. The British sports cars of the 60's had SU carbeurators. It is my understanding that they were designed for model airplanes. They are rather finicky and do not compare to our mechanical fuel injection systems.
I heard a joke that underlines the differences. I hope that no one takes offense at this attempt to add humor to our website. Why do the English drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refrigerators. (While our Pagodas have Bosch electrical systems, Jaguar used Lucas in the 60's.)
Ted 1969 280SL
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Yes, non-English (such as Alfa) knew to avoid Lucas when they could. The Giuliettas were pretty much Lucas also with Solex (I believe) carbs. For the Veloce Giuliettas Marelli went in (particularly the distributor) and sidedraft Webers replaced the Solex. These are swapped in by some anting to disguise as a Veloce, but there are about ten other ways to find them out.
Anyway, I used to have good luck with SU carbs -- they can be made to be higher performing than others of the day, which is saying a lot as the general design was developed in 1906. The tweaking is easy once you get it... the problem is you are ALWAYS tuning and adjusting them, especially when you have two or three in concert, or NOT in concert. The Astons made use of the Skinner's Union carbs also, and they seem the only ones appropriate to find under the bonnet -- at least esthetically.
In any case, these fuel injection pumps on w113 or w198 are giant steps forward of course, and they are one mark of very high end european (non-English) gasoline vehicles from the era, as far as I know. I wish wish I knew something about them... I haven't a clue.
1967 230SL (Manual, rustless driver)
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I grew up with my brothers telling me that Lucas was the Prince of Darkness. I understand that the three positions on a Lucas electric switch are Off, Dim, and Flicker.
Isn't the reason the British never developed computers because they couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil?
:mrgreen:
Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe
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quote:
Originally posted by Raymond
[
Isn't the reason the British never developed computers because they couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil?
Ray,
not quite....
Although im not sure but i think the Colossus from 1944 is considered to be the worlds first modern computer it was developed to break the enigma code.
Prior to that in 1837 the Analytical Engine the worlds first computing engine, a mechanical digital computer was invented by Charles Babbage. It was made of brass and steam powered. May have leaked some steam though!!
Both WERE BRITISH MADE
[:0] ;)
Kay
Euro 280sl LHD Auto.
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It's been widely believed that Harvard's Mark I and Britain's pulley-powered Collosus code-breaker were the very first digital computers, but neither were general purpose and reprogrammable. Although not known of until the 1960s I think, the Germans did build the first general-purpose and reprogrammable computer... the Zuse I in the mid 1930s. The technology was not widely known of because of the war. There were Zuse II and III also, all predating the dedicated Harvard and British machines.
In any case, neither England nor "Hah-vahd" own claim to the first digital computer, and this MIT graduate somewhat enjoys reporting that.
Cheers
1967 230SL (Manual, rustless driver)
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All you computer boffins... care to give me a hand with this web-site? It's a little more modern than the Analyticla Engine, but not much.
Anyway, I uploaded some pictures of the cars I like in my previous post...
Peter
Check out http://bali.esweb.nl for photographs of classic car events and my 1970 280 SL
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But Peter, at least it's not steam-powered! :)
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
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Ok Guys...
I don't know how my post got onto computers, but to set the record straight, I beleive the ancient Greeks beat everyone by several thousand years...the Antikythera Mechanism was an early analog computer...
Go to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
(This from an electrical and mechanical engineer...Hey Chad; was this computer discussed in Cambridge?)
R/
Joe
P.S. It was English or Saxon inspired as it did leak oil...
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I'm shocked...I always heard E-Types, especially Series 1 or 2 cars, were fast off the line, but I'm suprised they don't coner well and have bad brakes, as seems to be what you guys are saying. And yes, the electrics are horrible, but with a total retoration, much could be improved. I'm not for total originality if it makes a car unreliable. Is the brake issue fade? As for cornering, is the E-Type CG too high or the suspension too soft?
R/
Joe
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quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue
... But I believe that as a designer Albrecht von Goertz - who is now 92 - is right up there with Paul Bracq. His 507 is my dream car and his 503 is not far behind the Pagoda. ...
Unfortunately he passed away few days ago: http://www.cardesignnews.com/site/home/whats_new/display/store4/item57512/
Another one who should have been inducted into the Automotive Hall of Fame a long time ago. :(
Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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Lucas developed many of the avionics systems for the Concorde. One of the reasons why Concorde never was employed for anything other than the relatively short-hop transatlantic routes is that the Lucas Avionics were only certified for four hours continuous operation...
quote:
Originally posted by Raymond
I grew up with my brothers telling me that Lucas was the Prince of Darkness. I understand that the three positions on a Lucas electric switch are Off, Dim, and Flicker.
Isn't the reason the British never developed computers because they couldn't figure out how to make them leak oil?
:mrgreen:
Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe
- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
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Agree with Bob G that "The Most Famous Car In The World" is a most interesting and worthwhile read. I had a new E Type Coupe in 1963. A beautiful car that was very fast in a straight line. Unfortunately, the oil pressure never held up and I had several new engines courtesy of Jaguar. At the time I needed reliable transportation so I settled on a 1955 300SL Coupe that I have to this day. If you want to drive stick with the M-B, if you like to tinker, find a Jaguar. I do like to tinker, and still think the lines of the E Type Coupe are the most attractive ever put to metal. I'm always looking for a good replacement for my 1963, but so far have only a collection of books on the E Type.
Interestingly enough, I never had any problem with the Lucas electrics, but I have heard the reason the English like warm beer is because they have Lucas refrigerators.
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quote:
Originally posted by 66andBlue
it must have been the color combination "red+red". How about "blue+silver"? They were both in my mechanic's garage today.
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66andBlue - Alfred, is that your Pagoda in the background behind the Jag? I recall you replied to a post of mine and mentioned that yours was light blue. If that is yours, could I drop you an e-mail with a few colour/soft top related specific questions that would only clutter up this thread. My car is (hopefully) on a ship from the US and it appears to be the same combination to the one in your photograph.
Thanks,
James
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quote:
Originally posted by jameshoward
Alfred, is that your Pagoda in the background behind the Jag? I recall you replied to a post of mine and mentioned that yours was light blue. If that is yours, could I drop you an e-mail with a few colour/soft top related specific questions that would only clutter up this thread.
Hello James,
it isn't mine but it is very similar. I posted some pictures in this topic: http://sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=5210
Sure, send me an email with your questions, I'll answer.
Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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I think I'm going to get myself in trouble on this but I'm going to weigh in. I've owned my Pagoda since 1990, I also own a 1967 Healey 3000 (BJ8) since 1981 and an XKE Series III coup since 1997. Pound for pound the British cars combined have given me less trouble and are more reliable than the Pagoda. I have also spent less time repairing them and less money on them than the Pagoda. Yes the Healeys all leak oil and water in the rain but I would never hesitate to drive them anywhere. The Pagoda is used just around town. Please don't get me wrong the Pagoda is a great car and I own one because off its refined beauty and performance but in my experience the British cars are just as capable and unfairly criticized for being finky and unreliable.
Joe C.
'71 280sl (Smoked wiring harness)
1953 Austin Healey 100
1956 Austin Healey 100M
1967 Austin Healey
1973 XKE V12 Coupe
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It seems to me the comparison of a Jag to a Pagoda is like apples to oranges. I don't think I would trade the Pagoda off for an E type, but I would sure love to have one. So don't decide; buy both.
In the early 80's I was offered an Espada that had the hood and chrome painted flat black. I turned it down, I just couldnt see myself driving a 2+2 coupe instead of a roadster.
Al
66 230sl
113-042-10-014715
904/396 blue, Ivory Tex
condition: not-as-rusty-as-before-bucket
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quote:
Originally posted by ah53
1971 Pagoda since 1990
1967 Healey 3000 (BJ8) since 1981
1973 XKE Series III coup since 1997
Pound for pound the British cars combined have given me less trouble and are more reliable than the Pagoda. I have also spent less time repairing them and less money on them than the Pagoda....in my experience the British cars are just as capable and unfairly criticized for being finky and unreliable.
I would venture to say that when buying a car that is already 15 to 20 years old when you purchase it, the care provided to that car by it's previous owners has a lot to do with how reliable it is for you. That said, I would expect any 40 year old Cheverolet, Fiat, Triumph, Mercedes-Benz, or Toyota to be reliable if given proper-to-excessive maintenance from Day One. The problem is that cars that cost less, then depreciate to even lower values, often get neglected or abused and then end up years later with an undue reputation for being unreliable. Mercedes-Benz cars cost more and are owned for more years by people who can afford maintenance & repairs, so they get possibly an undue positive reputation for reliability. :?:
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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I dunno Rodd
Seems like certain manufacture's just don't build them to last...here in N/A, Toyota has a reputation as the most reliable car, yet for many years the bodies were really poor, with a high amount of recycled (and impure) steel and rust everywhere....I venture that Mercedes was the best built production car available with a body steel gauge, thicker than any other production car and the best engineering expertise....I'd say that there has almost never been a "cheap" product manufactured in Germany and generally they are the best quality of any product available....mind you late model MB's scare the heck out of me with the over abundance of glitch prone electronic "accessories"... :evil:
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.....I do you one better: " If lokas was the only company building weapons, there would be no wars.....now that would be great ! ! ! ! !
CHEERS !
WITT ! :)
quote:
Originally posted by ejboyd5
Agree with Bob G that "The Most Famous Car In The World" is a most interesting and worthwhile read. I had a new E Type Coupe in 1963. A beautiful car that was very fast in a straight line. Unfortunately, the oil pressure never held up and I had several new engines courtesy of Jaguar. At the time I needed reliable transportation so I settled on a 1955 300SL Coupe that I have to this day. If you want to drive stick with the M-B, if you like to tinker, find a Jaguar. I do like to tinker, and still think the lines of the E Type Coupe are the most attractive ever put to metal. I'm always looking for a good replacement for my 1963, but so far have only a collection of books on the E Type.
Interestingly enough, I never had any problem with the Lucas electrics, but I have heard the reason the English like warm beer is because they have Lucas refrigerators.
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.....I have been in the fortunate position to have owned the sportscars that I desired most at one time or another. Finacial reasons allowed me to own only one car at the time. Not as bad as it sounds, I arrived at the decision to purchase a Pagoda because it was it's turn. ( Road & Tracks yearly comparison-test of Pagoda, E-Type 911 and Corvette did it to me....) I have owned an E-Type in the seventees, when they where still affordable, loved it, hated it, worked on it, learned from it. As this post is pertaining to your E-Type question I woun't bore you with the other cars, but go for it they are theeeeee best looking car ever produced......
CHEERS !
WITT ! ;)
quote:
Originally posted by Joe Bango
Dear Fellow Members;
Don't get me wrong...I love my Pagoda and it is my daily driver except during the winter...but lately I find myself really wanting a series I or II Jaguar E-Type...is this sacrilegious? Granted, I also would like a 60's vintage Ferrari as well. Anyone out there who has or would like to add to their Pagoda another 1960's sports car?
R/
Joe