Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chad on January 30, 2006, 22:10:27
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I've seen several 230 SL that have a pull handle on the passenger side door trim, similar in shape to the grab handles on the hardtop interior. Is this something that is common and original to the 230 SL? There is no such interior pull handle on the driver side, of course.
Just wondering if this is an example of something that was added and might need removed. You will notice the vintage Virgin Islands registration sticker and the shabby wrinkled dash covering which has been since removed in this pic.
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Chad, if I am reading your post correctly, you are asking if certain 230SLs have grab handles like the hard-top ones. Mine does -- and on both passenger AND driver doors. Similar to your picture.
James
63 230SL
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Chad,
Your pull handle is normal stock standard item.
James,
I've not seen one on the driver's side. Did you get a left hand door from a British car?
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Thanks Rodd.
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No, but if you ever see me dance you'll swear I have two left feet!
James
63 230SL
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Mine also has a grab handle on both sides.-JP- '66 230SL Euro 5 Spd ZF
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James, which left foot works the clutch and which left foot works the accelerator?
Or do you have an automatic?
quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber
No, but if you ever see me dance you'll swear I have two left feet!
James
63 230SL
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Automatic, Thank Goodness!
James
63 230SL
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My February 1965 230SL has the handle just on the passenger door. It is original
Chris
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quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber
Automatic, Thank Goodness!
James
63 230SL
How can that be James - don't you need a right foot to drive an automatic??(' :D ')
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Same for my October 1966 production car. No handle on the driver's side.
quote:
Originally posted by gugel
My February 1965 230SL has the handle just on the passenger door. It is original
Chris
Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
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I have an early '63 230Sl, body no.312, It has grab handles on both doors.
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To throw one more example.
I have an early 250SL (before the 2980 VIN change) and it has no handle for the driver door (LHD).
Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto
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Looks like it's 5 to 3 so far (with the edge to only passenger side)
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My 230sl is also an October '66 build and only came with one on the passenger door.
1967 230sl (stick)
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The door pull is standard on the "off" side only. I learned this the hard way. If you put the handle on the driver side it will be in the way of your knee movement with the clutch (LHD) or foot rest (RHD). Bud's Benz in Atlanta pointed this obvious ergonomic fact out to me only after I had installed the pulls on both doors. I now have screw holes in the leather on my driver's door to remind me of my error.
Best,
g
'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon
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My September 1966 build 230SL only has a passenger side door pull.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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quote:
Originally posted by enochbell
If you put the handle on the driver side it will be in the way of your knee movement with the clutch (LHD).
Get one of those smaller Nardi steering wheel to provide more space between the wheel and door pull handle. Would that work for you?
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Interesting topic. My questions are: What was originally installed on the DS (left) & what was removed later for whatever reason? And were euro cars different from US delivered cars? Or were DS handles installed for auto trannys only? The reason I ask is that the DS handle on mine has threaded fittings beneath the door panel for installation that are almost certainly original. Why would they be there if not to hold a pull handle? Has anyone who does not have the DS handle looked for these fittings? Without the handle, there's not much else there to pull with unless the window's down. I don't have a problem with the handle in operating my clutch, but if I forget to move my knee from beside the steering wheel when I close the door, ouch! -JP- '66 230SL Euro 5 Spd
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I think we're waiting for someone with knowledge of the custom for this to weigh in, if there was a specific policy. My suspision is that both door panels had the ability to accept the grab pulls, but that it was only customary to place one on the passenger side, at least in the US. A number of sporting (and less expensive) British and Italian cars of the era had no pull handles, so it seems reasonable that there be none, in deference to the spartan sporting nature. These cars were somewhat notable for their inclusion of comfort trim, however, so who knows. But the driver's door without the grab handle is certainly a cleaner appearance to me.
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<<on mine has threaded fittings beneath the door panel for installation that are almost certainly original. Why would they be there if not to hold a pull handle? >>
The reason is b/c the factory only made one door for each side , regardless of LHD/RHD. When the car came down the line , the fittings were there for either option. [ look at parts book and you will see only one door listed per side.]
Also look at the handle part# .. it states one part # and a footnote *- Right side for LHD/left side for RHD.
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My 1963 230SL had the grab handles on both doors and I don't think they are good to have.
I sat in the '63 and closed the door, the space between the steering wheel and the handle was very tight and would block the passage of the hand to the turn signal stalk and light control switch beyond.
So it would make sense that they always were on the door opposite the steering wheel.
Walter Klatt
1967 220SL-diesel
1963 230SL-gas
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Prior to this thread, I never gave the pull handles a second thought (I have both). Mine is an automatic so the clutch is not an issue. I must confess it is a little awkward to pull the door closed with the handle but I do it. I use the hard pocket ocassionally. As far as it being in the way -- once i am in, I am plenty comfortable. Walt, are you a NFL lineman in the off-season? (just kiddin' -- in case you are! :? )
James
63 230SL
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Why James, you are halfway correct. I am a big hulk, crowding the tiny cockpit space in the pagoda, but am not a NFL player. Did a very short stint in High School.
If I continue to grow, I'll have to drop the whole pagoda thing and move onto the next bigger model. The W111 convertibles.
Walter Klatt
1967 220SL-diesel
1963 230SL-gas
Walt, are you a NFL lineman in the off-season? (just kiddin' -- in case you are! :? )
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I just opened a vintage MB brochure for the 230 SL and interestingly, it describes a door "holding grip for passengers".
Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
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quote:
Originally posted by A Dalton
Also look at the handle part# .. it states one part # and a footnote *- Right side for LHD/left side for RHD.
Aren't parts books great! So full of detailed infomation. I would believe that any driver's side door with a handle was added by someone after delivery.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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After your responses, I have concluded that there should be NO GRAB HANDLE on the DS door. The part # info was particularly strong & in addition, my parts book from the VDH German Mercedes Club has a picture (p.71) of the interior of what I think is an early 230SL which clearly shows the handle only on the PS. That should pretty much settle it. Thanks to all that responded. -JP-
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quote:
Originally posted by rwmastel
quote:
Originally posted by A Dalton
Also look at the handle part# .. it states one part # and a footnote *- Right side for LHD/left side for RHD.
Aren't parts books great! So full of detailed infomation. I would believe that any driver's side door with a handle was added by someone after delivery.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
Yes , Lot's of correct info... one will also notice that under the Chassis Type Quanity column, it list 1 per chassis, not 2....
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I am not 100 percent convinced. Almost but not quite. Is it mere coincidence that 3 of the earliest cars on this forum have/had the dual handles?
James
63 230SL
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< Is it mere coincidence that 3 of the earliest cars on this forum have/had the dual handles?
>
There is a remote possibility that the early did use both and they quickly found that the driver side one was in the way , so they eliminated it [ probably due to complaints from some Rally test ?]
Possible, but none of my parts books show that to be the case .
My guess is one handle....but not betting the Farm on it.........
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Perhaps this is a somewhat variable aspect of the cars, and acceptable as such? Perhaps the dealers had individual preferences and added one?
With the majority of examples lacking a handle on the driver side, especially post 1964 cars.
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Playing "Devil's Advocate" :twisted: , if the factory sales literature describes it as a "holding grip for passengers", wouldn't you assume that the driver's side wouldn't require one as they should be holding on to the steering wheel?
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Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
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Yes, but using that same logic why on earth would an owner (or 3)then want to add one later?
James
63 230SL
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<<using that same logic why on earth would an owner (or 3)then want to add one later?>>
Semmetrical Correspondence..
I know of 2 with driver grips and both were added by the owners...
.. and that was the reason given when I inquired.
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I concede that having them on both sides makes symetrical sense. And mine may just be one of those owners looking for it. I am still hung up on the 1963 factor for some strange reason. If your out there, Iceberg -- handles or no?
James
63 230SL
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Just my €0.02............my February '64 car is RHD and has both handles although I am positove that the drivers side one was added later as one of the chrome pieces is a slightly different shape and the actual plastic has been painted black !
Its unlikely that this part was not available new anytime in the past so I figure some porevious owner simply wanted a handle there and came across a very similar one !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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When I got my 230SL, one of the first things my wife asked me was why there was a handle on her door and not on mine. I told her that Mercedes presumed that the driver would hold on to the steering wheel while driving and only the passenger needed a hand hold. She said to me, "So Mercedes expects you to close the door with the steering wheel, too?"
- Mike Hughes -ô¿ô-
1966 230SL Auto P/S
Havanna Brown (408)
Light Beige (181)
Cream M-B Tex (121)
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Again, perhaps this is a nod to a spartan and sporting tradition. Of my few cars of the era, none have had door pulls. An alfa guilietta had none, a DB2 had none and an mga had these door pull straps. I think the overall effect was to aspire to a car built primarily for sport, and not convenience. To me it makes sense that a sporting car would not have the same type of trim for the driver that a sedan would, but this is the era where A/C and automatic transmissions were making their way into roadsters that still aspired to have some sporting character, transforming them into more marketable cars I suppose for buyers who didn't want a pure car in the traditional sense.
When I first posted this topic question I was questioning whether the passenger grab handle on this car should even be there... I had some suspicion that someone may have taken a hardtop handle and drilled it into my passenger door trim. It seems natural to have no interior handles to me based on my experience. I initially wondered if anyone would think this subject interesting enough to respond. All this discussion about the driver's grab handles that are out there is much more interesting.
In any case, I am leaving this passenger grab handle there because it definitely sounds like it belongs.
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Hello Fellows,
Strange that you discuss this topic so thoroughly...
Of course door grab handles are ORIGINAL on both doors for the 230 SL until VIN 000914. After that only the passenger door kept the door handle. Until that VIN the one on the drivers door was flatter than on the passenger's side.
All European models had the passenger side grab handle.
Only the later US versions with their different soft pockets on the door and their improved W114-like armrests omitted these grab handles at all.
The reason why the grab handle was removed from the drivers side is better clearance between steering wheel and door panel as you already mentioned.
Since VIN 000915 on the 230 SL the armrests on the door panels changed towards the shape all of you know on the 230ies (+ early 250ies).
You can grab this "cow horn"-like armrest and shut the door with it.
The passenger door's grab handle remained for the passenger's additional comfort.
Best,
Achim
(Magdeburg, Germany)
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Achim, The grab handles on my '66 Euro/Italian are identical on both sides. I guess this is another piece of evidence that the one on my DS (L) was added later. Not sure why this makes me unhappy. :?: -JP-
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Achim's post sounds like the definitive answer to me, and the one that should settle this for those concerned.
JH, can you notice as to whether your driver handle is of different dimensions from the passenger one, as Achim says?
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Achim, you are my hero! Yes, my driver's side handle is flatter than the handle on the other side. Never noticed that in 20 years of driving number 871!!
James
63 230SL
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My '64 has just the RH door pull on a LD drive car.