Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Eryck on September 13, 2005, 08:15:14
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Hi all,
Long time no talk. All the keys on my car (ignition, doors & boot) are copies. I therefore do not know what the original keys should look like. Anyone have a picture?
Since all my keys are very worn, I am looking to make new copies. Is there a source that I can get them to look as original as possible? Thanks once again.
1965 230 SL White Manual
Hong Kong
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Hi Eryck. Here are mine (sorry about lousy camera work)...
Keys Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) 000_0220.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/J.%20Huber/2005913104026_000_0220.JPG)
35.49 KB
James
63 230SL
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James - thanks for the super quick response.
Ooops....mine look the same. They look pretty bad for original keys! Not even a logo on them and they all look different. Looks like I will just polish mine up then....thanks again for the help.
1965 230 SL White Manual
Hong Kong
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Yes mine could use some sprucing up. Since I have two other sets, I keep these in my desk, so never thought much about that.
The large one is Niemann and other two are Ymos. Unfortunately, along the way someone changed my gas cap so I actually have a 4th key for that.
James
63 230SL
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I had four keys too, but I had the trunk lock tumblers re-keyed so that the doors, trunk and glove box all use the same key. Not original but much more convenient. My gas cap uses a differnt blank. :( I got new ignition keys from the MB dealer and they are stainless and have a plastic head like modern keys.
Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe
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All of these keys, back to 1964, are still available. I searched for a long time, and here they are:
http://key-men.com/shopping/show_cat.php?catid=Mercedes
Best,
g
'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon
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That's a great website. Since I only have one set of keys, I'd better make a copy. Thanks!
1965 230 SL White Manual
Hong Kong
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This is what the original keys should look like. The black plastic top is available from your MB dealer P/N 000 766 44 06 and installs over the metal key blank. The material of the original keys is steel. I got German keys from Broadway Locksmith here in town, but their supply is limited to a few blank numbers. These keys have the plastic top already attached, but on close examination it does not quite match the original MB in shape or texture. The top from MB is the real thing, the key on the left is the one from Broadway Locksmith and it is made from steel (Magnet sticks to it)
(http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/theengineer/2005914124354_Keys.JPG)
'69 280SL,Signal Red,007537,tired engineer, West-Seattle, WA(http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/theengineer/20041031121053_Drehstern.gif)
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Engineer,
You are correct (I assume) for the later cars. However, Eryck's car is a '65 230SL, for which the keys shown in James' photo are correct. The one on the left is the ignition key, the middle is for the doors and gas cap, and the one on the right is for the trunk (boot) and glove box.
-David Pease
'66 French 230SL
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Eryck
I got a new set of keys from the local Mercedes dealer. They only asked for the vin number and $100. It was not cheap but it is better than searching all over the country for someone to duplicate the old keys. The ignition key was a Borkey instead of the original Nieman and both of the other keys were yomos as were the original. However, both the door key and the trunk key had the rectangular shaped head like the door key.
Good luck in your search.
Iverson
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I thought I would be the volunteer guinea pig (I hope PeTa isnt monitoring). The keys I received with my 230 SL last year were all cut on the wrong blanks, that is to say they were different from my my owner's manual showed as "correct". I ordered one new set from my MB dealer ($40.00/each) and one set from Key-Men ($6.00/each-pictured). On the Key Men set (arrived in 4 days), the ignition key was silver in color and the door/gas and glovebox/trunk were brass. On the MB set (arrived in two weeks) all were silver in color but the ignition key was shaped somewhat differently than the owner's manual showed. The KM ignition key was dead on. The MB ignition key was stamped "made in Germany" and the two others "Ymos". All the KM keys stated "Taylor". For the difference of $80.00, I would recommend Key-Men.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) MB Keys - Key-Men.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/kevinc/200510421343_MB%20Keys%20-%20Key-Men.JPG)
60.89 KB
Kevin
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
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Thanks Kevin. My "daily set" and a third set I have are Taylor (I keep my originals in a drawer). A local locksmith in Santa Barbara made them for next to nothing (or about what any old car key would cost)...
James
63 230SL
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Thank you all. I will go for Key Men since I am looking to make a spare set.
1965 230 SL White Manual
Hong Kong
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I needed keys for my 66' 230SL with a 67 250SL ignition key setup. I went to the Key Men site and visually matched it to the Key Men part# MB16R. They didn't list it as fitting a 250SL, it was shown to fit Mercedes S. SL Class Ignition/Valet 1969-79. My locksmith cut them and they worked perfectly. They cost only $5.00 each and are made of plated brass. Thought this info may be useful.
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Key Men's website is a great find.
Two questions:
Kevin C (the "guinea pig"): did you happen to note Key Men's part numbers for all three keys? Since we know yours work, it'd be nice to have those numbers.
Also, my glove box key was lost. Is there a way to determine the correct code for MB locks, without duplicating an existing (or in my case nonexistent) key?
Thanks for your thoughts.
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When I was in Germany, I went to a MB dealer and got a MB locking gas cap with the MB star stamped on it that was keyed to my ignition, door, and glove box key. Now one key opens everything. Maybe a MB dealer in the States can do the same thing.
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Harley Dan
What chassis is your 113 ?
Tnx
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A Dalton, my W113 is a 1970 280SL vintage, Euro spec, silver with a 4 speed.
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HD,
Tnx
You already have the single key system.
We Early 113 guys need the set of 3.. which I don't care for , but put up with...
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I am sorry but I did not keep a record of their part numbers. I gave them my key numbers off my data card and they sent me the appropriate blanks.
You might also be able to email them a photo of what you need and they can try and match from there. There's a pic of my blanks prior to cutting in this thread.
Hope it helps!
quote:
Originally posted by KSalzer
Key Men's website is a great find.
Two questions:
Kevin C (the "guinea pig"): did you happen to note Key Men's part numbers for all three keys? Since we know yours work, it'd be nice to have those numbers.
Also, my glove box key was lost. Is there a way to determine the correct code for MB locks, without duplicating an existing (or in my case nonexistent) key?
Thanks for your thoughts.
Kevin Caputo
Boca Raton, FL
1967 230 SL Automatic
670 Light Ivory
113 Bronze/Brown MB Tex
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I'm having some what of a slightly differant problem but related to keys. I have to move my key around to the right spot before the old girl will start (1966 320SL). This suggest to me that the tumbles are bad. Can I get a locksmith to replace the tumbles or do I have to replace the entire unit? I was told by a local MB dealer that this part was no longer in stock.
Hope someone can help!
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I assume you mean that you are having trouble getting the key to turn (as opposed to getting the car to start) and would suggest that before you go about replacing the ignition that you get a new key cut. Making a copy of the old one won't do it, but if your key is original there is a code from which a new blank can be cut. It is often the case that the key wears down before the tunbler.
Good luck,
g
'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon
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My keys are made by YAMOS and are orginal. but talking about door lock handles can you recode a new door hand and lock to the old key?
I left an e-mail for the lock men web site to see if they have any extra factory keys for my year SL.
Thank You & Happy & Healthy holiday & new year. Peace !
Bob Geco
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Bob,
Yes, it is fairly simple to set the tumbler to the key. Each pin in the tumbler is a specific height (I believe they are numbered 1,2,and 3) and all you need to do is arrange the pins to correspond with the height required of the key. Sounds more complicated (or, at least, I make it sound complicated)than it is but it really is easy once you get the tumbler apart.
Merry Christmas.
g
'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon
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Understand this an an old topic, but can anyone explain how the lock pins are actually removed from the tumbler barrels. I've pulled the gas cap, trunk and glove box tumbler barrels out but can't quite figure out how the pins are removed to re-arrange them. Can press them in and out and they appear to have a spring under them but not clear how they are pulled out.
The trunk barrel is especially interesting in that I can not even figure out how the pins get exposed.
George
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Hello George,
Well, the truth of the story of the tumbler barrels is: they are not designed to (be disassembled). 8)
Rather these were designed to be replaced by a new unit (e.g. new door handle with tumber barrel). ;D
When new the five little brass lock pins (for the old style sytem until 1967) were pressed in together with their little coil springs into the tumbler barrel and fastened/punched/sealed with a kind of hammer stroke.
You can see this stoke on the top surface of the diecast tumbler barrel after cleaning the barrel with some detergent/gasoline etc. 8)
In old tumber barrel assemblies these often break open themselves and the lock pins and springs can/will fall out ... depending on the remaining amount of grease or dirt.... :o
Theoretically you can break this kind of "seal" and replace/rearrange the lock pins but it is a bit tricky. ;)
But this doesn't help you at all if you don't have the correct lock pins for your new (or desired) key. You "could" theoretically fabricate yourself one out of a couple of donor parts but still those won't be like new as these tumbler assemblies wear out (heavily) with the years/decades/half centuries... :(
Perhaps a good (and specialized) locksmith can help further.
Good luck and keep us updated
Achim
(has not had much luck with his used lock assemblies)
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Achim,
Thanks for the reply. I've got a 1967 230SL. I went to a locksmith yesterday with my gas cap and trunk lock expecting I would be able to at least get them on a common key with the door locks. What we found out is the key profiles were all different so we hit a dead end immediately. When I got home I played around with the keys a bit and found that the key profile for the gas cap--a replacement- and the glove box are exactly alike even though the gas cap was provided new with a key that has a rectangular head. Exploring further, I recalled that I had replaced the trunk lock some years back because the attaching bolts were torqued off when I removed it for the restoration. Fortunately, I kept the old lock and lo and behold, the glove box lock and the old trunk lock use a common key. I removed the barrel from the old trunk lock assembly and replaced the barrel in the "new' trunk lock housing. So now, I'm down to 4 keys--one for the ignition, one for the door locks, one for the gas cap and one that operates the glove box and trunk. If I can figure out how to re-pin the gas cap--it uses the same key profile as the trunk and glove box--I can get this down to three keys and I'd be happy
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Yes George,
That's correct. Well observed. And congratulations to your solution so far with changing (back) the tumlber barrel of the trunk lock. :D
By the way, the shape of the key head (round or square) does only indicate where it goes (K = Kofferrraum & Handschuhfach, trunk & glove comparment and T = Türen & Tank, doors & tank) but the keys themselves are more or less identical. This indicates that a given door key, let's say TA 046 would be able to unlock a trunk with the number KA 046 and so on.
As to your problem, yes, that is the biggest challenge, to find the correct lock pins (tumbler pins, "Zuhaltungen" says Valeo (= succeeding company of YMOS) to them).
It is not easy to get these parts since those are lock items and thus sensitive parts .... :o
There are (MB-)specialised locksmiths who can do that, e.g. like the "Sleutelprof Luke"
http://www.keyprof.com/index.php
http://www.keyprof.com/en.index.php
in Holland
but there are certainly others.
At least that's the way I want to approach this; I haven't done yet. 8)
Best,
Achim
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With regard to the boot barrel is it possible to remove the chrome outer shell (the part that holds the tumblers) so that it can be re-chromed,on my vehicle the chrome has worn away with use.
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Eric,
I'm trying to figure that out as well. I'd like to exchange the barrels and use the chrome piece that I got with my newer lock assembly for the very same reason. I played around with these this morning and gave up after a while. Did not want to break anything! I've got an e-mail into Joe Alexander since he has worked with these locks. Hopefully the two can be separated so the barrels can be changed out.
George
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With regard to the boot barrel is it possible to remove the chrome outer shell (the part that holds the tumblers) so that it can be re-chromed,on my vehicle the chrome has worn away with use.
Dear Eric, George,
Yes, that is possible. ;)
I've already done that with one of my door handles. Pretty decent outcome. 8)
However, this effort depends on the condition of the part; consider please it's zinc diecasting.
If the part is too heavily coroded/pitted, it will not come out nicely from the rechroming process.
Yes, it is easily possible to mix the parts from different (trunk lock) units. ;D
Good luck!
Achim
(keeps original trunk lock assembly together with a few exchange parts)