Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: J. Huber on August 24, 2005, 08:48:40
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Can anyone confirm what the following number would get:
127 010 1150
And would this exact number be stamped on the part somewhere?
James
63 230SL
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Something engine related, and the number might be printed on the part, sort of depends on size etc.
I would suggest that you give the local MB dealer a call, and have them do a quick look up, they should be able to tell you what the number corresponds to.
I do not have the engine part book, only the chassis. I will double check my parts number CD to see if there is any information, but that will not be until this evening. And you might get an answer from someone else with that detail available more readily.
Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto
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Hey, James,
What's cooking: This is a loaded question???
127 010 1150 was part # for a short block for engine # < 127 981 12 005119.
So was 127 010 1050 (don't know difference between the two) but they are not good numbers anymore i.e. not available from MB. You might could find NOS...
Does this help?
naj
65 230SL
68 280SL
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<<127 010 1150 was part # for a short block for engine # < 127 981 12 005119.
So was 127 010 1050 (don't know difference between the two>>
The difference may be auto/manual as the 127 eng had the crank balanced with flywheel as a single unit...?????
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Yes Naj, its pretty loaded. But before I unload it, I am checking things out. Next question: if a mechanic were to install a new block -- what all does this mean? Are we talking a complete shell with all the goodies inside...
James
63 230SL
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I understand a short block to be an engine block with crank and pistons fitted. Cylinder head not included.
naj
65 230SL
68 280SL
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The part number is what you see in the parts book. The number on the block, crank, cam shaft, head and a few other parts are all casting numbers and are not part numbers.
The cranks for the standard and auto cars are different but it mostly comes down to the length of the dowell pin that fits the flywheel. Standard cranks have to be balanced to the flywheel and the front ballancer. There are numbers stamped into the end of the crank that should match the ballancer.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
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The part number is what you see in the parts book. The number on the block, crank, cam shaft, head and a few other parts are all casting numbers and are not part numbers.
The cranks for the standard and auto cars are different but it mostly comes down to the length of the dowell pin that fits the flywheel. Standard cranks have to be balanced to the flywheel and the front ballancer. There are numbers stamped into the end of the crank that should match the ballancer.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
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Thanks Guys.
Here is what's cooking. One of the stronger points of my car has been its engine. Back when we acquired it, circ 1979, the short block was replaced and a new cylinder and all the trimmings redone. Since then, I've put on about 60K miles and it has been a strong driver (with only an occasional hic-cup)...
But here's where the puzzle comes in. Recent and earlier discussions of dipsticks made me wonder if my replaced block was somehow different. My stick most resembles the later ring-type. Then, while looking around under my IP -- I got a glimpse of a casting number on the block that reads 129 011 0001. Could it be that my replaced short block was a 250? Another clue is that right near the tach drive, I see something stamped that resembles an S and then an E. So maybe a 250SE block?
Curious thing is -- the car is by all other accounts a 230SL. Head is stamped 127... Earliest of distributers, oil pan, Injection pump, etc. Every procedure I ever did was using 230SL parts....
Bottom line is -- if it is a 250 block with a 230 head, this answers all questions that such a thing can happen. My car runs great. What is doesn't answer is why my mechanic from way back wrote 127 010 1150 on the work order. Thus this thread. Thanks for all your insights...
James 240SL?
James
63 230SL
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129 would indicate a 250SE/SL block. The 230SL head will bolt on to a 250 block so it's more than possible.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
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Thanks Dan. Just when ya think ya know your car...
And would any mechanic going forward be correct in treating the entire engine as a 230SL? So far, I think they have...
James
63 230SL
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quote:
Originally posted by Benz Dr.
129 would indicate a 250SE/SL block. The 230SL head will bolt on to a 250 block so it's more than possible.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
Not so fast...
Per Mike at Metric Motors (MBZ engine builder), 230SL engines (with 4 main bearings) have "casting" numbers (forward driver side of block) starting in either 127 or 129. They see them regularly. 250SL engines have 7 main bearings. My block is a 4 main bearing 129 casting with early vent style dip stick (not part of the block ya know). So yours may not be a 250SL block.
Tom
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Well, Tom that is inspiring (or interesting at least). Anyone else have a 129 casting on a 230? Mine is exactly where Tom said... Any other visible signs to differentiate the 230/250?
James
63 230SL
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Casting numbers are not part numbers. MB does things in ways no one will ever understand. When I see an original 230SL block with a 129 casting number stamped on the side of it then I'll believe it too.
There's no lack of miss information around here and even more than enough opinions to go around. Just bcause someone at Metrics says this, or says that, doesn't mean it's righ or wrong. EVERYTHING around here has to be considered as someones opinion untill verified.
My parts book shows 230SL engine blocks with 127 part numbers only. The casting number ( not part number ) may be different. A very possible explanation is that it's a 230SL replacement block and not a true or original block. The 129 in the casting number is a block that could have been made in 1975 using the 129 outer configurations and the 127 innner castings.
If there's no engine number stamped into the back of the block it's a pretty good indication that it's a late replacement block. IMHO, no 'original ' 230SL block will ever have a 129 casting number on it.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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Well Dan, I can tell you mine is a definitely a replacement block. It was purchased in 1980. The shop/owner was extremely reputable -- so it might make sense that he ordered the 127 010 1150 from MBZ and received this one with a 129 casting number. Considerable bucks were involved. At same time, a new head & the fixings went in -- all 127 stuff. If it were a 250, wouldn't he probably have continued with a 250 changeout? Just speculating.
James
63 230SL
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I'm no expert, never said I was. Dr. Benz really knows these cars. But I'll put my money on Metric's knowledge and experince. They see/rebuild more engines than anyone posting here (probably by a factor of 10 or more). Thats all they do, day in and day out. Too often things are presented as fact until later prooved otherwise. Take this and all advice with a grain of salt. And yes, we are talking casting numbers not engine numbers.
James, all you need to do is have peek at the crank bearings to know if it is a 230 or 250 setup : )
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My thoughts are confirmed that this is a replacement block. It might well be a 230SL block with 129 casting number but since either will work with the 127 head it could be a 250SE block, or a 230SL block. Only inspection would tell you for sure.
MB would have finished up the 230SL run in early 1967 with 127 blocks because the 129 block came AFTER that. Since all these blocks ( 220SE to 280SL ) have the same ouside dimensions the outer part of the casting is basically the same. Changing the inside of the block would be more work than the outside but you would have to ask someone who worked on the line.
MB often hands you a part that is nothing like what's on the car. Tail light lenses, distributors, wiper arms and a number of different parts have been changed over the years. They simply hand you the replacement part. 129 casted 230SL block could be the same thing.
Looking in my parts searcher I see that either was available as of a year ago with the 129 block being more than the 127 block which would make sense.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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quote:
Originally posted by Benz Dr.
My thoughts are confirmed that this is a replacement block. It might well be a 230SL block with 129 casting number but since either will work with the 127 head it could be a 250SE block, or a 230SL block. Only inspection would tell you for sure.
So if it was a 250SE block -- I have 7 bearings and if 230SL 4? Any other dramatic differences? And Dan, by inspection do you mean looking at whats inside? presumably with head off? Just curious...Ain't going there until I gotta.
James
63 230SL
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More like sub pan off. The crank is different on a 250 engine so that should be a clue right there.
I'm fairly condident in saying that an original 230SL block would'nt have anything other than a 127 casting number on it. But, I could be wrong.....
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
1 877 661 6061
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Well, I have the original tag from my "first" engine...it was definitely a 127. I am assuming the new block doesn't have one of these tags...
James
63 230SL