Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Alan Smithee on July 15, 2025, 23:46:57
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Did searches here and many other places, but could not find any photos...
Can I trouble someone with a later 280SL having original carpet and factory Kangol seatbelts to post photos of the outside mounting points, both top and especially bottom?
Thank you in advance!
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If I recall correctly, all Pagodas have had the same 3-point belt mounting locations since some date in 1966. My Italian delivery 230SL with an Oct 5, 1966 build date has the mounting holes, but never any seat belts!
But, my point is that you don't need to depend on the specific references you mentioned.
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^ As you pointed out, early cars did not necessarily come with seatbelts from the factory. I am trying to determine factory correct mounting for belts on a US car, which I believe became law in 1967-1968...hence the request for images from a later car.
I see others have sought this in the past, but no photos in response. There are dozens of interior shots of dozens of 'original' cars out there...lots of images of Kangol buckles, but annoyingly nobody captures the belt mounting points.
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Hello,
You have to look behind the carpet, it's at the bottom corner of the vertical wall behind the seats. If your car had never been equipped in period, you have to punch a hole in the carpet to pass the seatbelt screw (don't drill!)
Sorry, pictures do not pass!
Didier.
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There are some pictures here
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=13724.0
Attached is a picture from my 68 280sl. The bottom is mounted in the side instead of the normal spot on the floor
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Thanks, but to clarify…looking for photos of the outer seatbelt mounting points of an original car with carpet and seatbelts in place as delivered.
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Not sure what you mean by outer? There are 3 mount points -
#1 on the tunnel, #2 over the shoulder on the padded corner cover, #3 on the floor behind the seat in front of the parcel shelf. Brad's pictures in the thread I linked, show all three.
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Taken from the posts on this forum. You may try Search function, key in "seat belts".
I also attach factory sketch.
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Not sure what you mean by outer? There are 3 mount points -
#1 on the tunnel, #2 over the shoulder on the padded corner cover, #3 on the floor behind the seat in front of the parcel shelf. Brad's pictures in the thread I linked, show all three.
Yes, well aware. Outer being #2 and #3. Inner being #1 on the tunnel.
You are explaining exactly why I am looking for pictures of an original car with untouched original carpet and original factory-installed belts: From what I have gathered, factory mounting for #3 is NOT on the floor, but instead on the vertical crossmember supporting the parcel shelf as shown by Pawel66 above. Beyond confirmation of that, I would like to see how it was finished from the factory in order to replicate it.
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Taken from the posts on this forum. You may try Search function, key in "seat belts".
I also attach factory sketch.
Appreciated, but again looking for photos of a late original car.
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There were holes in the carpet and bolts screwed in with distance washer. No caps, nothing special.
Maybe there are pictures on motoring investments old site, look for the Holy Grail.
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Thanks. Yeah, I went through almost every car on Brian's sites both new and old before posting here, and all photos of the rear areas are cropped just above the mounting point.
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Can't you feel the holes beneath the carpet? I know you can feel the shoulder mount under the upholstery.
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Assuming mounting holes are in the body, I would like to see how it looked from the factory before cutting into brand new carpet.
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So I take it that you replaced the carpet, now that it is new, and you did not see any holes?
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I bought the car with non-original carpet and non-original belts incorrectly secured to the parcel shelf screws.
I now have new carpet in, and original Kangol belts that I want to have mounted exactly as the factory did. For that I am seeking photos of an original car. I am 90% sure how it should look, but want to be 100%. I expect correct seatbelt mounting holes are under the carpet since the car is a 1969 US-spec and they were required at that point.
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Well, you need to feel the hole through the carpet or lift the carpet to locate the hole. Punch the hole in the carpet and fit the belt mounting with a distance/shoulder washer. No mystery there…
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Well, you need to feel the hole through the carpet or lift the carpet to locate the hole.
That's what I was asking. If you're 90% sure where the holes are beneath the carpet, you should be able to press and find them, then mark them. No??
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I appreciate all of the input.
Going back to my original post, I am looking for photos of an original car with factory installed belts to see exactly what they looked like new so it can be exactly replicated. Simple as that. Spent a lot of money on this interior restoration and not looking to assume, guess, or get it 90% right.
I know there are plenty of original cars out there. Just need a couple pics from someone who has one. Thanks.
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Here are a couple of fresh pictures of the outer side connection points for the driver side seat belt on my 70 280SL, which I believe has original carpet. The upper mount has a plastic cover over the bolt and the lower is exposed. The lower bolt mounting bolt points to the rear in the upright below the rear parcel shelf. The upper fits into an indentation and appears to point at a 45 degree angle to the door and slightly upward. The picture with my fingers is to show the plate sits about 3 fingers in from the door sill upright. Hope the helps.
Bob
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Thank you SO much, Bob! Extremely helpful and exactly what I was looking for with regards to the lower mounting points.
I believe those plastic covers over the top mounts came from a sedan of same vintage for use of hooking and hanging the belts when not in use.
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I believe those plastic covers over the top mounts came from a sedan of same vintage for use of hooking and hanging the belts when not in use.
Others - please confirm if the below is correct or not.
See the stitching in Bob's next to last photo? This shoulder area mount is where the end of the belt is permanently fixed. The plastic cap just covers the bolt. The fixture can be rotated up to better guide the belt over one's shoulder, or it rotates down when not in use. No temporary hooking of the belt.
You should go to Pagodas & Beers, see some other cars in person, and talk with other owners.
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I appreciate all of the input.
Going back to my original post, I am looking for photos of an original car with factory installed belts to see exactly what they looked like new so it can be exactly replicated. Simple as that. Spent a lot of money on this interior restoration and not looking to assume, guess, or get it 90% right.
I know there are plenty of original cars out there. Just need a couple pics from someone who has one. Thanks.
Alan, my 280SL (007749) was delivered to me at the factory in February, 1969, with the US Spec package and still has the original carpet, Kangol belts, etc. I am separated from my car by a few thousand miles until about Thanksgiving so I can’t provide the specific pictures you are looking for right now. I don’t see that you have mentioned specific details of your car such as date of manufacture. There may have been some evolution in the exact details furnished in later cars so it would be helpful to know the date of your car’s production.
I looked through the photos I have with me of seat belts and only found three which are attached. The plastic covers shown in BHap’s post, if original are a later evolution. I hope this is of some help.
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Others - please confirm if the below is correct or not.
I think you will find none of the ‘holy grail’ original or 100pt restored Pagodas have these plastic covers. (That said, I have a set, and plan to use them on mine as it makes for a nice, finished look…original or not.)
Here is an example of what I’m talking about:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-mercedes-benz-280se-27/
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I've never seen a seat belt holder like that on the shoulder mounting point of a Pagoda.
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For what it is worth: the cap you are talking about is PN A 000 868 00 30 and it was used in 108, 109, 111, 113, 114 and 115. So it is on the parts list for Pagoda.
It is on the parts list for 113044 only.
But then I see for example a seat belt A 110 860 20 85 with this cap shown as part of the kit, used in some of the 113043 cars as well (chassis 002982-003839 and 004647).
The same seat belt was for 113044 up to chassis 000655.
For the rest of 113044, the seat belt kit was A 114 860 16 85, where drawing suggests it also contained this cap.
For the cap itself, the note says: 113044 as of chassis 000656.
Both are for US, SA 55 686.
Wrapping up: this cap most likely (not 100% sure) was part of the above mentioned seat belts for 043 and 044, but it is specifically mentioned to be fitted in 044 as of chassis 656.
I would have thought - it was meant to be there, but... my wild guess would be: it came with the seat belts when seat belts were ordered. Installation was another story - the part may not be easy to install in a Pagoda, it does not fit there well and might not have been installed or might have been removed by owners.
The other two sets of 3 point seat belts from those days, both for outside of US and Canada, I think:
A 115 860 17 85 (SA 55 639) was not for w113 (bottom anchor clamps 90deg). It does not have a cap.
A 115 860 08 85 and A 115 860 09 85 (SA 55 639) there is no information as for the model of the car they went into. There is a cap on the drawing.
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. . . Here is an example of what I’m talking about:
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-mercedes-benz-280se-27/
I am a bit confused, Alan. I don’t see what this jumble of hanging belts on a w108 has to do with Pagoda belts.
As for the plastic covers for the upper belt connection point on the W113, if you like the look use them. IMHO the original chrome bracket and nut provide a much more simple and elegant look.
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. . . Wrapping up: this cap most likely (not 100% sure) was part of the above mentioned seat belts for 043 and 044, but it is specifically mentioned to be fitted in 044 as of chassis 656.. . .
Thanks for the part number detail Pawel. As we have found a few times before, there are anomalies in the actual part details installed at the factory. My car, 007749, did not get the plastic caps.
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I fully agree there were anomalies in installation of some of these parts. It has not always been by the book.
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I am a bit confused, Alan. I don’t see what this jumble of hanging belts on a w108 has to do with Pagoda belts.
The photos are an example of the plastic covers being discussed used as designed to hang the belts when not in use, in a car that definitely had them from the factory.
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Hello Ralph, In looking at your photo, I see a sliding clip on the top end of you belt? I do have a sliding clip on the lower section of my belt to take up slack which is black in color but no clip at the top. Perhaps changes were made when the head restraints mandated?
John
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John, I am far from my car for a few months yet so I can’t clarify for you with a combination of pictures and words. Let’s see if words only work.
In the picture you are referring to, this passenger side shoulder belt is rotated into position to go over the passenger’s shoulder. I am pretty sure that this clip is fixed and does not slide. For stowage when not in use, the belt is rotated 180 degrees and hangs straight down.
In the stowage position you see the other side of the belt and clip. Looking at the clip in this stowage position you see three parallel horizontal bars, if you will, across the belt. The space between the middle bar and the lower bar is larger than the space between the middle and upper bar. You can see this spacing difference in my picture even when viewing the other side. The hooked end of the side belt latch can be inserted into this wider space so that the belts hang down for stowage in a fairly orderly position. The short belts on the tunnel side unfortunately have no neat and convenient stowage option. I hope this explanation is understandable. If not, I can provide pictures later this year.
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I think this clip was to be a hanger for the belt in stowage position, as you describe, in absence of the plastic cap.
Neelyrc, when you see your car, I wonder if the bottom anchor clamps in your belt are at 90deg or they are straight?
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Pawel/John, I searched around and found a picture of the belt hanging in the stowage position as i tried to describe just above.
John, as you surmised I think there may have been some changes over time in exactly what was furnished.
Pawel, I’ll try to remember to look at the bottom anchor clamps and answer your question. This will be a test for my well worn memory!
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I am just curious/speculating - there was a belt set without the cap and with 90deg anchor clamps. Since you are saying you have the factory solution, I wonder if this is the belt they fitted.
I have the same hanger as you do. The plastic cap did not fit well and it was not coneient.
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Ralph, your last picture solved the puzzle for me. Wish I had that nifty little clip for my belts to keep them up and out of the way..
John
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That's a cool feature. Maybe I've seen it, but didn't understand the purpose. Very nice.
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You can still buy spares for these belts if you look around
https://vintageeuroparts.com/?s=seat+belt&post_type=product&dgwt_wcas=1
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Here’s what the plastic seatbelt cap looks like on a -044 model. My car was equipped with these when new (1971). I believe earlier models equipped with static 3 point belts had an metal adjustable (sliding) bracket on which the seatbelt was hung as pictured in Ralph’s (neelyrc) post.