Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: Doncorleone on March 06, 2025, 23:08:56
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Hello,
I’m new to the forum and to Pagoda ownership. I have a 1970 280SL in need of an exhaust system (from headers). There are multiple sources/opinions. I’ve read all the postings regarding mild stainless vs stainless. Given my use of the car, I believe the mild SS will be adequate and from what I’ve read, sounds better.
Can anyone tell me the best source for the parts? Also, how important is welding vs clamping.
In advance, thank you.
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Welcome.
Most SS exhaust systems are made from a type 304 SS or similar. You are after corrosion resistance not strength.
A lot of members in the US, including myself, are happy with a company called timevalve out of Florida.
I prefer the exhaust to be clamped. This way, if necessary I can remove portions easily.
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I’m a recent purchaser of a Timevalve exhaust system and although I’ve not yet installed it, my experience working with Mike in Florida was exceptional. I recommend that you call him directly and speak with him about your needs. I think you’ll find the time to be well spent.
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Hello,
I’m new to the forum and to Pagoda ownership. I have a 1970 280SL in need of an exhaust system (from headers). There are multiple sources/opinions. I’ve read all the postings regarding mild stainless vs stainless. Given my use of the car, I believe the mild SS will be adequate and from what I’ve read, sounds better.
Can anyone tell me the best source for the parts? Also, how important is welding vs clamping.
Gino, Quality and service from Mike at TimeValve are without equal. My TimeValve was over 22 years old before it became damaged (don’t ignore the rubber donuts!) on the way to Pagodafest in 2023. TimeValve quickly built and shipped the replacement section.
Had the system been welded the entire system would have had to be replaced. I too am a fan of clamps!
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Thank you for the help. I will call timevalve tomorrow.
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DONCORLEONE:
I assume you are doing the install yourself? Having DIY this job 2 years ago, some cautions:
(1) the OEM exhaust is welded ( vs clamps) end to end and is impossible to remove unless car is on a hoist. ( search my name for pics of removal and install)
(2) I sourced a full replacement mild steel system c/w down pipes from BUDS. It didn’t all fit together quite right and I still had to do some welding to make it work. If I were to do again:
* would source stainless ( this is such a painful DIY job, I don’t want to ever do again!!)
* would source from TIMEVALVE
*would ensure it’s a clamp system vs full weld. The resonator and connector pipes and muffler have to be positioned and oriented just so, otherwise you get exhaust components rubbing on frame members
* find a muffler shop with PAGODA experience!!
Good luck and post some pics and monologue when you undertake.
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It's a six to eight hour job to do a factory weld-up installation correctly by a very experienced installer, with new hangars, donuts, heat shields and chrome tips. You'll get squeaks, vibrations, rattles and exhaust leaks if not done correctly.
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I bought my Time Valve SS exhaust about 20 years ago and I do not had any problems ever since. And yes it has the crossover connection between the two pipes.
I heard That there are exhaust systems without that.
Best, Urban
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I too have a Timevalve SS exhaust system but on a 280 SE. It it a quality product. Some say the exhaust note is bit different than what the OEM exhaust system produced but at least its the last exhaust system your car will need.
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The Time Valve stainless systems are hand built to order by a second generation skilled fabricator welder whose father founded the business. The quality and craftsmanship is obvious and hard to beat. Internal construction is the same as Mercedes systems. You can drop a marble in the front end and it can roll right out the tail pipe at the other end. It is continuous and open from one end to the other, with no baffles to restrict exhaust gas flow and engine power. The pipes are perforated where they pass through the mufflers which are packed with a fiberglass like material to absorb sound (as are the original systems). This fiberglass material can also absorb moisture from engine cold starting condensation. The moisture mixes with corrosive gases and then can be trapped in the fiberglass packing until the system gets hot enough to purge all the moisture. This moisture is what kills the original OEM plain steel exhaust systems in a short time, especially if the car is driven on mostly short trips. It might take twenty or thirty minutes of driving to dry-out the exhaust on a cold start, damp humid day. Stainless systems do not suffer from this dilemma.
Some minor concerns of the Time Valve System are that they do not have the front cross over feature (the originals do), they come with the connector pipes already welded to the center muffler and the tail pipes are a tiny bit smaller diameter which cause the factory chrome tips to fit a bit loose. Using some high temperature silicone adhesive on the inside of the chrome tips, before sliding them on, is easy and works great.
Lastly, the two connector pipes between the two mufflers are correctly made but instead of being two loose, separate pieces (as is Mercedes), they come from TV pre welded to the center muffler making weld-up or clamp-up installation much easier. The problem is TV has been welding them in backwards for years. It works fine either way, in fact, they snake around the axle tube with more clearance the TV way, but there is less clearance where they pass by the right rear tire. Tire clearance is not a problem unless you decide to use wider tires than spec. I solve this issue by just ordering my connector pipes not welded and separate. I then do all the weld up myself and install the connector pipes correctly.
If you're doing a weld-up installation you will save yourself some welding by asking them not to put the compression slots in the pipes where the clamps go on clamp-up systems.
In my opinion the fit, quality and longevity of the TV system far outweigh the minor issues. I've been using them for at least fifty years.
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The Time Valve stainless systems are hand built to order by a second generation skilled fabricator welder whose father founded the business. The quality and craftsmanship is obvious and hard to beat...In my opinion the fit, quality and longevity of the TV system far outweigh the minor issues. I've been using them for at least fifty years.
OK, do we need any more of a testimonial?
I had a conversation with Mike at TimeValve some years ago when they stopped all advertising to the Mercedes community. I queried him on the matter (wanting him to continue to advertise in the Mercedes publication I represented) and basically he said it's no more elaborate or difficult to fabricate a SS system for a Ferrari--ANY Ferrari--than it is for any old Mercedes. But the price that the Ferrari community was willing to pay was orders of magnitude greater than the MB community. So you won't see a lot of advertising for TimeValve but the products and quality are there.
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he said it's no more elaborate or difficult to fabricate a SS system for a Ferrari--ANY Ferrari--than it is for any old Mercedes. But the price that the Ferrari community was willing to pay was orders of magnitude greater than the MB community.
Funny, I just bought a completely new hood for my son's 1968 Mustang project. It cost .... $225 with another $160 for freight delivery to our door. Real good quality too.
Compare that to the cost of a new Pagoda hood, which SLS can sell you for USD $5,200 plus shipping - 23 times as much as the Mustang's.
I'd hate to think what a period Ferrari hood would go for.
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Funny, I just bought a completely new hood for my son's 1968 Mustang project. It cost .... $225 with another $160 for freight delivery to our door. Real good quality too.
Compare that to the cost of a new Pagoda hood, which SLS can sell you for USD $5,200 plus shipping - 23 times as much as the Mustang's.
I'd hate to think what a period Ferrari hood would go for.
By the time the 1968 model year Mustang began production Ford had built over 1.7 MILLION units, and another 300K+ for ‘68! Ford also encourages this aftermarket parts supply by licensing suppliers. Parts of every kind are readily available for early Mustangs at affordable prices.
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"Eberspacher" was the original Manufacturer for the W113 exhaust systems for the Factory. Here is a page out of their 1976 catalog. It shows some part numbers, and other interesting information. It also shows the correct orientation of the two connector pipes between the two mufflers.