Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Editor on November 27, 2024, 14:42:44
-
Hi everyone,
I'm Jeremy Ouisse, a TV producer currently working on a car restoration show called "Trésors de Casse" (Barn Find Treasures) for a French channel. We're filming an episode featuring the restoration of a 250 SL Pagoda, and we've stumbled upon something quite intriguing.
During the interior restoration, our upholsterer discovered the handwritten number "321" on all the wooden panels beneath the upholstery. These numbers are hidden when the car is fully assembled, only visible when the fabric is removed.
We're curious about the meaning of this numbering. Could it be a production sequence number, indicating the car's position on the assembly line? Or might it serve another purpose?
Any insights from the experts on this forum would be greatly appreciated! We're eager to uncover the story behind this mysterious numbering and share it with our viewers.
Thanks in advance for your help!
Best regards,
Jeremy Ouisse
-
I do believe these numbers were used during production. There's a section in our Technical Manual about "Dotology" in the engine bay that covers similar things (odd red paint splotches here and there in the engine bay). I noticed the same numbers on my own interior trim when I removed them for reupholstering.
-
See if the number matches your body number. The body number can be found in the engine compartment on the data plate mounted on the left fender. Body number is bottom right corner of the plate.
-
I do believe these numbers were used during production. There's a section in our Technical Manual about "Dotology" in the engine bay that covers similar things (odd red paint splotches here and there in the engine bay). I noticed the same numbers on my own interior trim when I removed them for reupholstering.
It's under "Data Cards", body and paint number plate (Aufbau...)
I am gessing it was so the trimmers knew which car the bits were going in, and the installers could match the bits to the car/body.
The car may have been retrimmed without disturbing the handwritten numbers but more likely most of the handwriting has not been seen since ~1967
-
Unfortunately, "Editor" is only an associate member with no access to the Technical Manual...
But editor, you could always join!
-
The only numbers that I’ve seen on interior pieces, (that were upholstered), were the interior color/material codes. According to our Tech manual, 321 does not match up with any interior code on a W113. Don’t have an answer. Is your interior color a standard color? It looks like Cognac. Does anyone know if MB offered custom “Match to Sample” for interiors back in the 60”s? Maybe this is a custom code.
-
Jeremy,
These cars have Body numbers and Production numbers. The numbers you show are Production Numbers.
Body numbers are stamped into the metal parts such as Hood/Bonnet, hardtop, transmission plate, under the car …
Production numbers are hand-written or rubber stamped on leather pieces, these show up on backside of upholstered panels, behind glove box, underside of the leather on the soft top compartment lid, inside the windlaces, inside door panels, kick panels etc.
You might find the Production number on the plate in the engine compartment on the left side, next to the relays. It would be on the bottom row of the plate — typically in the center, vs the body number is on the right side of the plate.
Usually the production number is several digits but only the last 3 digits or so are written on the panels.
These numbers are not related to colors or such.
-
Brian Peters renowned Pagoda expert of Motoring Investments mentions these hand written numbers on his website. On his earliest documented restoration (the "Cave" car), he identifies a 2 digit number inside the left front headlight bucket as an inspection number. In his "Buyers Guide" he briefly discusses handwritten numbers on the back of interior panel and states:
" I'm not sure where this "274" number originates from but we are going to do a bit more automotive archeology and maybe answer that question."
That buyers guide is over a decade old. Perhaps in the meantime, he has confirmed what it means.
BTW. During the restoration of the mentioned car, he had a graphic artist replicate the handwritten numbers back inside the headlight bucket after painting.
-
Thank you all for your responses. The production number theory seems to be the most plausible, although we can't be 100% certain.
I appreciate these very interesting exchanges.
-
I'm almost 100% certain those numbers are the production number for the car. The production number on my data card is 0308 and 308 is chalked behind both of my door cards, behind the backs of my seats and even on the seat frames and the rear inside panels.
-
Yes, it was exactly the same case here. The Pagoda I'm filming is a 250SL. Which one is yours?
Do you think theses numbers are chronological? (321 for mine, 308 for yours)
There were 5,196 units of the 250SL produced. The one I filmed is from 1967 (the first year of production for the 250SL), so that could coincide with a chronological numbering system.
-
Yes, it was exactly the same case here. The Pagoda I'm filming is a 250SL. Which one is yours?
Do you think theses numbers are chronological? (321 for mine, 308 for yours)
There were 5,196 units of the 250SL produced. The one I filmed is from 1967 (the first year of production for the 250SL), so that could coincide with a chronological numbering system.
I have no idea how they came up with the numbers. Mine is a German delivered '66 230SL. Maybe they started at 0001 and went to 9999 before starting over again. That way there would never be 2 cars in the production line that had the same number. By the time a similar production number showed up the previous car with the same production number would have been off the line for well over a year.
-
Marcus is correct, the last three numbers of the production number is chalked onto various internal parts, this is not date related, simply a production number for that particular shift, so the same number will crop up time and time again
It would really help you to join as a full member where a wealth of information awaits you, such as this write up on the body and paint numbers
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/DataCard/BodyandPaintNumberPlate
-
Thank you all for your responses. The production number theory seems to be the most plausible, although we can't be 100% certain.
I appreciate these very interesting exchanges.
I would have thought we are 100% certain.
They are there to identify which part from the pile goes to which car during the production. Yes, they can re-appear time and time again because they are important only during production time of a particular car.
-
So I will tell this story in my episode. Thank you very much
-
This is why I love this forum. Always something to learn. My 65 230SL has Caviar interior, code 116. On the underside of some interior panels, in what looks like a grease pencil or crayon, are the numbers 116. I had a 280SL with medium blue interior, code 123. Those panels had 123 written on the backside. It’s interesting that you have the production number on your interior panels.
-
Based on what we know and what we have seen so far, I would have thought: rarity what you have, John.
Spare parts, mistake, manufacturing process experiment - what comes to my mind.
-
Monsieur EDITOR:
Q?where and when can this ( mostly) anglophone group watch that interesting show you are producing ( editing?)??
-
The Ford F150 factory tour, at The Rouge Plant, run in concert with The Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan, USA is an amazing example of real time production sequencing.
Understand that the number of possible combinations of colors, parts, options, etc. on the F150 means there are hardly two exactly alike. There are thousands of combinations and differences. Yet, on the assembly line all the correct parts and colors are there at the right time in the right place. It’s an amazing experience of a real factory in operation assembling the highest volume vehicle made.
Interesting to compare to numbers written in crayon on the back of a part!
-
Here is a picture of the “116” , (grease pencil???),marking on the back of the rear carpeted floor panel. The other side has the same marking. I could not find the production number. I’ve never had the original door panels off to check there. This is a very original 230SL, with regards to all body panels, lights, glass and chrome.
-
I thinck this may be the series ? https://www.careco41.fr/rmc-decouverte-tresors-de-casse/
-
Yes, production numbers. When I re-upholstered my 1970 European spec 280SL, all the leather panels, dash panels, door panels, etc . had the production numbers stamped on back side of leathers. I had a rubber stamp made to duplicate the stamping, and stamped my new leathers with this stamp, and in the same general areas. , only for my benefit. All chalk and grease pencil markings were left alone. Also under the seat cushions between horsehair and springs is a pink paper card that is dated and initialed by the person who upholstered the seats.
-
Good to know. Always learning. I’ve gone over the other cars I’ve owned ion the past. Aside from the two I mentioned in my previous post, I also had an unrestored, one owner 68 280SL with cognac Tex interior. That had “120” in grease pencil/chalk markings. I’d be interested to see if there’s any others out there that had interior codes marked on the backs of interior pieces.
-
Monsieur EDITOR:
Q?where and when can this ( mostly) anglophone group watch that interesting show you are producing ( editing?)??
This show will be broadcast on the French channel RMC Découverte in February 2025. The name of the series is "Trésors de casse" :)
-
I thinck this may be the series ? https://www.careco41.fr/rmc-decouverte-tresors-de-casse/
Yes it is :D