Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: Artkez on June 10, 2024, 21:42:31
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This is Steve, co-owner (with my father Arthur) of the red euro 1969 pagoda that has been both a dream come true and a test of patience. The car is beautiful but has had several serious mechanical issues since we got it about 6 months ago. Had to replace the starter, fuel pump, re-did the guides on the driver window, and a lot of little cosmetic things around the car. But one thing remained constant was that the car never really drove right, it always had weird issues with the power and made strange noises. We took it to several mechanics who tried various things -- valve adjustments and whatnot, but they either made it worse or no improvement.
Now we are at a big point, which is the realization that the engine needs to either be rebuilt or replaced.
You all have made many amazing comments on our threads, including this one
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=38154.msg279273#msg279273
Where we are at now is that we have finally found a mechanic we trust with this car. He is very competent and the car is currently completely apart in his shop. Something we never imagined
He has come to the conclusion that the engine needs to either be rebuilt or replaced.
We have the engine out and are considering sending it to metric motors, but this is quite a significant cost (maybe 15-20k just for the rebuild). This engine has the 130.983 number indicating it is an SL engine, but the rest of the engine number does not match the number on the Data card. It also has a 08 on the cam shaft which means US spec (if I am correct in my research). So I don’t believe this engine is original to the car, certainly not “numbers matching”.
The alternative is that the mechanic found a 1970 280SE in excellent running condition. The car is cosmetically in terrible shape and has some major body damage making it un-restorable, but the engine is very original, and in great condition. It drives great, much better than the SL ever did. Im aware of the differences between the 130.980 and 130.983 engine and am not terribly concerned.
We have already bought this car for a great price and now my mechanic is starting the process of removing that engine and cleaning it up. I dont think he has ever actually done this exact process before but he seems very confident in the results.. I've learned that I have to be very hands on and involved with the mechanics to make sure things go well.
What do we need to know as far as specific pointers for our mechanic to make this install go smoothly. I have seen a couple of older threads on the subject , but want to put together a good list for my mechanic and myself. What exactly is the gear for the tachometer? That the engine mounts change the height, stuff like that. what parts would he have to take off the original engine to make things work
A concern would be are we causing major damage to the cars value by installing the SE engine, while having a potentially rebuildable SL engine. the difference in the two routes could be 10-20k or more even. What do you think, what would you do? We know this current SE engine is in great shape and running wonderful, but it still feels like a gamble. I also do not like the idea altering the originality of the car, but someone has already done that once and did not do it well clearly, so that is something I'll have to get over
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If you are having the engine rebuild, its up to you to decide what number you want to put in. Just ask them (metric) to stamp the number from your data card.
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If you are concerned about originality questions on resale, pack up the old engine and put it in a crate and store it somewhere so it can go with the car when you sell it and knock $10,000 of the price for the cost of a rebuilt motor. Put the 280SE engine in your car and enjoy it.
Once you start looking you would be amazed at how many Pagodas have sedan engines.
i always say its about smiles per mile rather than resale.
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The SE will have a plug where the tachometer gear is on the SL.
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keep the engine support arms that are different between the sedan and the sl
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As Frank said, the big difference is the Tachometer. I used an SE block when I rebuilt my engine. It's been about 15 years so I can't recall exactly but I believe I used the tach gear from the SL engine.
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As previously noted you can not use the SE motor mount arms on your SL. They look similar but the SE mounts will set the engine higher in the SL frame, enough that the oil fill cap will dent the hood (bonnet).
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Dear Art
From the electrical point of view the controls are very similars on both engines. If both engines come from automatic transmission cars, electrical logic control differs only on the mechanical fuel injection pump. Later mercedes like that from 1970 have only one selenoid at the injection pump, and it is not an enrichment selenoid, but a fuel cutoff selenoid for the emissions system.
Take in mind that, when connecting your old wiring harness to that FIP, since instead of a rack movement to the rich position during crank-ups you will get a fuel cut off order.
Do not forget about cinderella, I mean your electrical system. That requires love as well.
Best regards
Eng.Leonardo Peterssen
Www.wiredoktor.com
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Just wanted to share an update. Bought the 280SE, very rough body and interior, but surprisingly great engine. Runs really well, tested it on the freeway and we were very happy with the status. the mechanic pulled the engine, cleaned everything up and painted, took the best parts of both engines, including the tachometer gear and the motor mount arms. There was a little delay as he had to get a new cam shaft. Now we have a beautiful rebuilt engine for my 280SL. See the attached images for the engine before he has placed it in the car, it looks brand new! We kept the polished aluminum valve cover that the previous owner had done, I like the look of it, even though it is not "original"
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Here are a couple of pics of the donor car. Lots of spare parts in the trunk!
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Here is an updated shot of the engine in the car. All belts and hoses replaced as well. Not quite finished yet, but we can see a light at the end of the tunnel!
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Congratulations. You’ve had a tough time since purchase. Take a driving video once you’re on the road after Test & Adjust.
The shop you are at - does it happen to be Mikes Foreign Auto on Artesia?
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Thats the one! Mike and Ziggy are really excellent. High hopes for this car, expect a great video soon!