Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chad on July 22, 2005, 21:24:54
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Hello all again!
I don't mean to begin new threads on topics that are basic and probably covered elsewhere but... I have used the search feature here and done searches elsewhere to figure out what the best source for a shop manual for the 230SL, mine is a 1967.
What is the best source/manual? Is the Hanes manual good? Is there an official MB manual that is the best, or some other source??? I am willing to invest in a good text. I just need something with pages and diagrams that I can touch and feel and get greasy, and I might as well start off with the most helpful thing. I just can't source or locate an "official" manual.
Thanks again, this forum really is making my enjoyment of the "new" car a joy.
-CD-
1967 230SL
1983 300TDT
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quote:
Originally posted by Chad
what the best source for a shop manual for the 230SL?
The workshop manual can be either 1959 edition with updates, or the 1968 edition. Known as BBB in its English edition.
But start with the essential Book of Tables "Technical Data Book", in your case 1966 edition. Truly useful! :)
I enclose a file from M-B Classic describing the Tech Literature available. All is orderable, by the numbers given, at your local M-B dealer (from M-B Classic in Germany or soon in Irvine CA) or from EVO address in Fellbach as written. Note that there is also a CD-ROM for the W113 Pagoda available! (price list at the end there)
http://upl.silentwhisper.net/uplfolders/upload6/MB_Classic_Angebot_Tech_Literatur.pdf
> Is the Haynes manual good?
In short: No! I shudder at the thought of people maintaining their vehicles based on this
/Hans in Stockholm
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I like the Autobooks "Mercedes-Benz 230 1963-68" by Kenneth Ball. It is very detailed and complete. It is MUCH better than the Haynes. The hard back version that I have is out of print but it appears that there is a paperback reprint available from Amazon.com.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1588500306/qid=1122121869/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-8200369-3931039?v=glance&s=books
Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor
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I second the mention of Kenneth Ball's repair manual. It appears that his artist drew renditions of the actual photos in the BBB so you may need to reference both, but for a relative newbie like me he discusses useful tips and warnings that do not get mention in the BBB. I have done a complete engine rebuild (7k miles ago) and the front end (0 miles ago) in my home garage using the manual. The front end was the most difficult, and I still can't get the freakin' brakes bled! But it is not the manual's fault, I'm sure.
'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon
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I have a hardcover printing of Ball's manual, circa 1978 that I stare at often (I'm all thumbs but the pictures are nice...)
I also have a copy of the Classic Center's CD -- which is very detailed but harder to cuddle up to at night!
James
63 230SL
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Another useful reference book is "Glenn's Mercedes Benz repair and tune-up guide". I have a 1966 edition published in Philadelphia by the Chilton Book Company.
In the UK, what looks like the identical book was published by Autopress LTD under a different name, "Mercedes Benz Autobook One - a workshop manual", I have a 1966 edition.
I also have the Haynes manual and the BBB as well as the Technical Data Book. I never heard of this Kenneth Ball book, so I will now try to lay my hands on that one as well.
UPDATE: just ordered the Ball book through Amazon (thanks for that link Jim)
Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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Thanks all!!! I just placed an order for K. Ball's manual using the link that Jim Villers posted. Will speak with my dealer regarding ordering the manual from MB Classics/pricing.
-CD-
1967 230SL
1983 300TDT
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Chad and Cees .... I hope you like the book .... I feel somewhat responsible (though I do like the book). Let us know your impressions after you have had a chance to look it over.
Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor
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One thing to keep in mind is the Kenneth Ball book focuses on the 230 engines (230 230S and 230SL) -- although lots of stuff can be useful for later models.
James
63 230SL
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The Kennith Ball book should be added to our list of publications. Anyone looking for manuals should see our link:
http://www.sl113.org/publications.asp
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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And just to confirm to everyone that the haynes is almost useless, at least it can be quite innaccurate !
Anyone have a link to a book or CD with part numbers, I need to be spoon fed here !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben
And just to confirm to everyone that the haynes is almost useless, at least it can be quite innaccurate!
Thank you for supporting my opinion, as expressed in my posting below
quote:
[Anyone have a link to a book or CD with part numbers, I need to be spoon fed here!
Please look in my posting below and you'll find it. In the attaced .pdf you have "Illustrated Parts catalogue 6510 475975" ; plus "CD-ROM 6510 0007 00"
/Hans in Stockholm
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ask phil here in Montreal he sells them for 40$ shipped for the parts Cd
bergelphilippe@hotmail.com
1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
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quote:
Originally posted by JimVillers
Chad and Cees .... I hope you like the book .... I feel somewhat responsible (though I do like the book). Let us know your impressions after you have had a chance to look it over.
Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor
Hi Jim, Chad and Cees,
I ordered the book too but had to wait until Amazon received a new shipment. The book just arrived and while I like the insructions I am wondering whether this reprint is of the same quality as the earlier ones. Some of the pictures are so dark that the details are very difficult to see. So, Chad and Cees I would appreciate it if you could comment on this, please. For example, in FIG 2:21 (fuel pump)on page 34, I cannot see much that is associated with numbers "3" and "10" (although I can guess what it could be). Similar problem with FIG 10:7 (steering linkage) on page 112.
Perhaps I could ask Amazon to find me a better copy, should it exist.
Thanks!
Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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Alfred .... Sorry that the quality of the current reprint is not good. Here ie what the 2:21 figure should look like:
(http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/JimVillers/200511179339_230BallBook2.JPG)
Jim Villers
190SL, 230SL 5-Speed, 190E 2.3-16 Kompressor
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Alfred, for what its worth, my image on p. 34 looks identical to Jim's. The photos in my edition (1978) are not crystal clear but very usable.
James
63 230SL
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Next to Chad and Cees, I ordered the Ball book too from Amazon. I hope you get the referral fees on that onPeter
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quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber
Alfred, for what its worth, my image on p. 34 looks identical to Jim's. The photos in my edition (1978) are not crystal clear but very usable.
James
63 230SL
James, be happy! :)
This is what mine looks like: :(
(http://uploaded/66andblue/20051118192434_Fig2_21.jpg[ )
I'll try to convince Amazon to search fro better reprints.
Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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I just ordered these from MB classic center
1 Edition 1966: Passenger Cars from 08/ 1963 to 10 $29.99 QL-6510-1260-02
1 Service Manual Models 190C-300SEL 1959-1967 $69.99 QL-6510-1402-13
1 230 SL Euro version; 1963-1967 (Reproduction) $19.99 QL-6510-8405-02
1 CD-Rom Early Models (W100, 113, 121.040/042, 198 $19.99 QL-6516-5415-02
hopefully all are useful
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Beware!!!!
Currently there is an ad on eBay for
"RARE Mercedes Benz Service MANUAL ALL MODELS 1965-2004"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/RARE-Mercedes-Benz-Service-MANUAL-ALL-MODELS-1965-2004_W0QQitemZ8016990890QQcategoryZ34227QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
When asked whether a 1966 230SL was included the seller replied:
"sorry, it does not cover your model."
Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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received the manuals i had ordered from mb, the service manual for the 66 is fairly comprehensive, still have to open up the cd rom and see how detailed it is.
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Merrill,
What is "1 Edition 1966: Passenger Cars from 08/ 1963 to 10 $29.99 QL-6510-1260-02"? From the title, it sounds like a simple list of passanger car models produced! :D
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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rod,
that is the "technical" manual that came with the cars. I think the original was combined with the owners manual.
matt
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Rodd,
I believe the Technical manual you are refering to is the listing of all the torque specs, clearances, tolerances, etc across the range of cars for the years listed on the title.
Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto
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http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mercedez-SL-Workshop-Manual_W0QQitemZ4593271157QQcategoryZ31355QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
65 230SL
68 280SL
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Yes, I thought it might be the Tech Manual, it just didn't sound like the proper title.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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so, the 2 manuals I received,
one was an owners manual with the typical how to stuff, then the other had the technical data like fuel efficiency and graphs of the cars performance etc..
it is not a technical data manual per se, ie. all of the torque speces etc.
My original manual has the owners info and the tech data in one manual.
matt
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Can someone tell me if there is a real difference between a 3-volume Workshop Manual and the single BBB that we know about?
There is a 3-volume set on eBay for $575 (!!) but it looks to me that the pages in this set are also in the BBB.
See: Item number 8017305623
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1,1&item=8017305623&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
Alfred
1966 blue 230SL automatic
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It looks like a BBB that's broken into parts for ease of handling. Also, I've been told these originally came in binders so supplements and corrections could be inserted in the right place. I've not seen one in binders like this, very interesting historical item.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Hello Alfred,
The workshop manuals in binders were usually produced with the introduction of new models. So most dealerships had this type at first. As the models were produced during the years the factory would publish supplements for changes, and problems in these models. These supplements were meant to be added to the binders to be brought up to date.
After the end of production manuals sold by the factory were usually hard bound with all the supplements included. Look for a statement in the front of these manuals "this manual is complete and no more supplements will be issued".
When purchasing manuals you should always make certain it is complete.
The loose leaf books have a lot of room to add supplements. I have the loose leaf volumes for both the early and late BBB. I like to add my own information gathered and insert it into the correct categories. This binder arrangement is very useful in this way.
However in both BBBs there is a lot of information from other models of the era mixed into the volumes. Sorting the W113 information out can be the biggest headache for the owner. Our group's W113 manual (in progress) should be a big help.
Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio