Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: MikeSimon on November 21, 2023, 00:33:19
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The auction below is on BaT for a 1965 230SL. The car has been repainted and there is a discussion about the original color. The body plate says 412, but that does not show as a good color in our TechMan. What's going on?
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-mercedes-benz-230sl-54/
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The auction below is on BaT for a 1965 230SL. The car has been repainted and there is a discussion about the original color. The body plate says 412, but that does not show as a good color in our TechMan. What's going on?
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1965-mercedes-benz-230sl-54/
This is DB412 Beige on a 61 Adenauer I sold several years ago. I have not seen it on a Pagoda before.
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I just read the info on that car on BaT. Looks like the car may have left the factory in 412 Beige, was subsequently painted black, (thus the dash color), and then painted the red we now see. It's anyone's guess. The car needs a TON of work. It will be a very expensive fix. I would avoid that car.
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I looked in my Glasurit color book, and it lists 412 as "gazellbraun" from 1952. 408 is listed as"havannabraun" from 1952. It does not make any distinction about what cars it would have been used on.
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We have a nice color chart in our Tech Manual and 412 is not listed as a Pagoda color.
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412 Havana brown as the contrast colour. I bet that was originally a stunning combination, but dated “badly”, thus the change(s)
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Havana Brown is 408. I can't seem to get an answer to my question. 412 IS NOT a Pagoda color, according to our Tech Manual. What was it?
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Mike, is it possible that someone just ordered a car in color that was a Daimler color, but not included in a Pagoda scheme?
I have a 190SL with 300SL upholstery color. I also have a Ponton coupe with MBtex upholstery on special request.
This is possible also today. Costs arms and legs but you can do it.
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Maybe, Pawel. Seems to be the only explanation, other than our color list is incomplete. Our cylinder head list is, so it wouldn't surprise me.
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The body plate says 412, but that does not show as a good color in our TechMan. What's going on?
I guess the data card would be the ultimate decider on what was original? If that shows 412, then the customer custom ordered a color that was available in the past (maybe on a car he/she previously owned?).
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It looks like this colour was only offered by MB as standard in 1961, so as others have said, someone took a liking to it and special ordered the Pagoda in that colour
http://oudemercedesbrochures.nl/Lacken_0961.html
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412 Havana brown as the contrast colour. I bet that was originally a stunning combination, but dated “badly”, thus the change(s)
Totally agree! Sometimes these “dated” combos yield an interesting, period look. Must have looked stunning with that interior. Pity it’s been repainted.
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Just looked at the photos again. I believe that you can see the original 412G beige color on and around the data plate that is attached to the relay bracket.
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@john.mancini
What work do you immediately see that it needs? I’m a recent owner and just trying to learn about these cars. I see cosmetic issues that seem approachable to my naive mind. I see no evidence that it runs well or badly or at all! (Aside from one poor quality video). I think that is a big problem for the seller, as uncertainty is not helpful in the auction of anything of real value. I am curious if you see more than I do (very likely!)
Respectfully,
Oliver
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Hi Oliver. I would avoid this car at all costs. It's a rust bucket that will take well over $120K to just get the body back to a rust free state. Then mechanically, who knows what else it will take. In my opinion, the most important thing to look for in these Pagodas is the integrity of the body. If you can find one that has not been rusted and has not been in an accident, you will save yourself tens of thousands of dollars and years of restoration down time.
On BaT and other auction sites, a lot of bidders want "matching numbers". They want the original engine. While that may be important with early Corvettes, it's not as important with Pagodas. Because 230-250-280 SL's only offered one engine choice each year, "fake SL's", with optional engines, never really existed. Changing the engine block, usually under warranty, was not that uncommon back then. Take a look at what re-manufactured Pagodas are bringing these days. Most of those have newer engines. So, in my opinion, finding a Pagoda with a great body is a priority. Everything else comes second.
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Mike, is it possible that someone just ordered a car in color that was a Daimler color, but not included in a Pagoda scheme
I have a 190SL with 300SL upholstery color. I also have a Ponton coupe with MBtex upholstery on special request.
This is possible also today. Costs arms and legs but you can do it.
Yes,
this was possible. There were a couple of our W113 SLs around with factory-painted color codes which are/were not on the regular list: 412 (beige), 270 (bluegreen), 574 (orange) 658 (ivory), etc.
More common the earlier those cars were but of course still rare.
Was a special (highly demanded) option those days - at extra costs...
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Wasn't the bright yellow car that was in Nürnberg (and Willingen and elsewhere) orginal?
(May be the one discussed here... > https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=12546.0 )