Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: RichardPercival on November 03, 2023, 22:44:17
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Hi all,
I’ve looked on the search and can’t see anything since 2007 on this topic.
When I look for insurance none of the regular carriers like Geico or AllState will cover the 1966 230SL and direct me to classic car policies. However Hagerty and Grundy etc will not insure the car unless I own another car as a daily driver!?
As I live in New York, I use the subway and cabs to get around. Does anyone know of / have / recommend any kind of specialist broker or insurance that will cover with only owning this one car?
Thanks Rich!
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That’s an interesting one Richard. When I first went to insure my pagoda, I had trouble because we didn’t own any cars but not for the same reason that you are in. We had company lease cars that were not in our name. Hagerty fully understood this because they are in Michigan and there are a lot of company lease cars in Michigan, the home of so much of the automobile industry.
In your case, they are determining you don’t have enough driving experience is my guess… if Hagerty won’t insure you, it’s going to be an interesting quest to find insurance.
Do let us know when you find it!!
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In your case, they are determining you don’t have enough driving experience is my guess…
Or, they think because this is his only car he will be driving it many, many miles per year.
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State Farm should do it, they have a specific classic car policy with an agreed upon value clause that they actually partnered with Hagerty on in some capacity. But 1/3 price of Hagerty.
I can't remember 100%, but I'm pretty sure they didn't ask about my daily driver.
2,500 mile/year limit is what they do I believe, but also seems to be the norm for most classic insurances.
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I'll second State Farm, they've been great and were much cheaper than the competition when I looked.
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I "third" State Farm. I have all my vehicles with State Farm, including 3 cars older than 25 years and 15 motorcycles, 13 of which are classics/vintage. They require 2 photos of the vehicle and a n estimated value they will agree on. In one case, the insured object is a non-US market one and they limited the value to $5,000.- until I provided a 3rd party value estimate, which they accepted.
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A few years ago, McKeel sold the majority of Hagerty Insurance to State Farm, so they may indeed have a better understanding of agreed value cars. (As an aside, Hagerty used the millions from the sale to buy The Amelia, Greenwich, and Concours of the Americas. Pebble refused his offers.)
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Insurance is a funny business and I think unless you’re in it, it’s difficult to comprehend all its nuance.
HAGERTY has never been an “insurance company”. They have never been listed as the insurance provider on my insurance certificates, some of which date back more than 20 years. They are a managing general agency, writing risks on behalf of various carriers. I think you could also call them underwriters, but then again, I am not intimately familiar with all the insurance terms. It’s pretty much the same with Grundy. I had them for a few years and they were never listed as the insurer on my Pagoda either. They sold the policy and they did the underwriting, but it was another company which actually carried the insurance.
FWIW HAGERTY didn’t exactly sell them selves to State Farm, it’s a bit more complex. They went public…and if you’re interested, you can read more details here: https://www.autoweek.com/news/a38346538/hagerty-goes-public/
But as it’s time to review all of my insurance needs, daily drivers, house, insurance, etc. I will call State Farm since it comes so highly recommended from my fellow members here!
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State Farm was about 15%+ more in cost than Hagerty for my Pagoda…plus, they only write 6 month policies. They were higher in cost across the board for my daily drivers and homeowners as well. Jake, you simply are too high. Staying with Erie and Hagerty.
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Thanks all!
Luckily one of my friends went to school with the local State Farm agent here in NYC near us.
They ran into the same issue of usually only covering it as a second car, but were willing to underwrite it without the
daily Driver.
It costs considerably more ($1470 per year) than the quotes I was getting if I had another regular car (in the $440s per year) but was way better than the JJ Best folks who are doing the financing could find - Their best was Safeco at $6600 per year!?
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The agreed value is the sales price I paid - I don't see a specific mileage restriction on the policy, though it is a 'Vintage' so classic car policy.
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I have State Farm, have had it on my Pagoda for 23 years. Never had a problem at all. Every couple of years I up the value of the Pagoda based on current sales data. Just remember to make sure you insure it to or over its current value. When I took out the insurance policy I took photos of the SL and justified market prices at that time, for their records. I also could bundle it with my house insurance, got a better rate, and again if you bundle with other cars you own, even a better rate. But do shop around.
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It may surprise some, but I have regular insurance on my car/s. Since I own several, not all of which are being driven, I have fleet insurance, plus we have a garage auto policy which allows me to have a service plate for test driving.
There was a time when I used my car for every day summer driving. There are are a number of restrictions for vintage cars and I wanted to use my car whenever I wanted, anywhere I wanted. My cars get limited mileage (or none at all) these days so maybe I might switch over.
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Whatever you do, make sure you have enough coverage and then some.
Lets say someone gets a Pagoda $30-40K, and gets it insured for the $30-40k value you paid for the car. Next you start making improvements over the years, the "rolling restoration" engine rebuild one year, paint the next year, interior a few years later,,, as the years pass the car is worth more and more and you forget to increase the insurance coverage, you just pay the insurance bill once a year an move on. Most of us would not think wow, just got a new engine rebuild, car is now worth x more than I paid for it, need to call the insurance company and increase coverage - this does not happen in the real world, unless you work in the insurance industry in some way - no different than if you remodel a small bathroom in your house you typically would not call you home owners insurance and tell them I just remodeled my bathroom my house and my house is now is worth x more, please increase my coverage & and send me the bill for the increase in coverage, it does not happen.
Next thing you know the car you paid $30 - 40k for a few years back is now worth $110K, but you do not realize that you still only have $30-40k insured on the car, and then the unthinkable happens - accident with a under insured or uninsured driver, your car has $60k damage, insurance will only cover the $30-40k you have on the policy you been paying on since the day you bought the car, who pays the difference - you do !!!! Parts and labor are much higher today than 10 years ago, so your insurance policy of 10 years ago will not be enough to cover any significant damage with today's rates.
Don't ask how I know this, just hope it helps one person in future, just learn from my mistake.
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Whatever you do, make sure you have enough coverage and then some.
Lets say someone gets a Pagoda $30-40K, and gets it insured for the $30-40k value you paid for the car. Next you start making improvements over the years, the "rolling restoration" engine rebuild one year, paint the next year, interior a few years later,,, as the years pass the car is worth more and more and you forget to increase the insurance coverage, you just pay the insurance bill once a year an move on. Most of us would not think wow, just got a new engine rebuild, car is now worth x more than I paid for it, need to call the insurance company and increase coverage - this does not happen in the real world, unless you work in the insurance industry in some way - no different than if you remodel a small bathroom in your house you typically would not call you home owners insurance and tell them I just remodeled my bathroom my house and my house is now is worth x more, please increase my coverage & and send me the bill for the increase in coverage, it does not happen.
Next thing you know the car you paid $30 - 40k for a few years back is now worth $110K, but you do not realize that you still only have $30-40k insured on the car, and then the unthinkable happens - accident with a under insured or uninsured driver, your car has $60k damage, insurance will only cover the $30-40k you have on the policy you been paying on since the day you bought the car, who pays the difference - you do !!!! Parts and labor are much higher today than 10 years ago, so your insurance policy of 10 years ago will not be enough to cover any significant damage with today's rates.
Don't ask how I know this, just hope it helps one person in future, just learn from my mistake.
Thanks for this Alex...and anyone who's been here a while has read your posts and the unfortunate situation you were it. Though I always had what I thought was adequate coverage on the car, I've upped it several times over the past 10 years, the last time because of your situation. I also added that clause (and minor premium that goes with it) that I retain the car after a total loss.
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Thanks all!
Luckily one of my friends went to school with the local State Farm agent here in NYC near us.
They ran into the same issue of usually only covering it as a second car, but were willing to underwrite it without the
daily Driver.
It costs considerably more ($1470 per year) than the quotes I was getting if I had another regular car (in the $440s per year) but was way better than the JJ Best folks who are doing the financing could find - Their best was Safeco at $6600 per year!?
Richard, have you ever tried to rent a car in NYC? As I recall, at least at the airport locations, they would not rent cars to NYC residents for the ostensible reason that they are renting because they don't have a car themselves (often not needed for NYC residents in daily life) and thus their driving experience may be "inexperienced". They almost all have minimum age 25 now which would have been a real problem for the first three years of my professional career!
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Oddly I have never had any problem renting cars in NYC without my own insurance and often did/do as when family visit or we want to take a road trip or go skiing you'd always just rent a car for it. No one ever asked for proof of insurance coverage and my Amex provides some coverage.
To round off this original thread, I eventually did get coverage through State Farm. This was not however because they willingly offered it - my friend another car guy, had a friend who is a local successful State Farm Broker (successful enough that he drives a brand new 911 GT3) who basically was willing to underwrite me. I pay $112 per month which is rather a lot for someone my age with a completely clean driving record doing only 3k miles per year, but I live in Manhattan so I guess I count myself lucky. The car has to be garaged (which now costs an eye watering $525 per month in my building) and my coverage limits had to be high enough to satisfy JJ Best who I financed the car through.
Classic cars are expensive and I just paid $5.5k for servicing at Wolfgang's in December so tbh the insurance fades into insignificance - it actually dropped from $127 per month after the first 6 month term :)
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Classic cars are expensive and I just paid $5.5k for servicing at Wolfgang's in December so tbh the insurance fades into insignificance - it actually dropped from $127 per month after the first 6 month term :)
I just had a sensor replaced on my 2013 Mercedes GLK diesel at the local dealer. The sensor was free under warranty, but they suggested I get another $4.5K worth of work done to "replace the motor mounts, that are pretty much collapsed, so you have a lot of engine vibration" (there is 0 engine vibration, even it being a diesel, whisper smooth) and "your front brake pads and discs need replacing". Even if I would do both jobs, the parts (OEM) would run me maybe $500 and it'd be a couple of hours of work. "That'll be $4,500 sir!" no thank you. So not only classic cars are expensive, brand dealers such as Mercedes, BMW really "write their invoices with two pens" as we say in Holland. On top of everything, they had my car for 10 days just to replace that one NOx sensor, a 1 hour job, and I had to call them twice to find out what was going on, 0 communication from their side. Very nice new Benzes in their showroom though, I'll give them that.