Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Electrical and Instruments => Topic started by: CJHenderson on October 27, 2023, 22:46:05
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Attached is several photos of my switch and electrical connector. The switch has six pins and my connector has only four female sockets on my new harness, I seem to remember that the old connector having six females. Do I have to build an add in for the other two?
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There are four wires there coming out of that plug.
You have the wiring here, just scroll down the page a bit: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Automatic/Start
The switch is component 51. It sends power to starter if R and N is selected and to the reverse light when R is selected. Two power sources (ignition switch and fuse box) and two receivers.
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... or here
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=27083.msg194119#msg194119
...WRe
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Found my old photos and ran across several shots of the switch, the model that I have is a 70 280SL/8. It appears that I do not have the electrical schematic or wiring harness that relates to the 280sl/8.
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Hello, the four connections that are shown in the schematics are all you need for starting and reverse lights, unless your emission system is still in use. If it is then the other two connections are shown on the link below. The neutral safety switch is called a "starter locking and backup light switch" on the first schematic, number 14, and number 48 on the 2nd schematic
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/EmissionControlSystem
I'm not familiar with the emission system, but If you need to connect to it, you'll probably need to change the plug to a 6 way unit and run the other two wires
I must admit when owners change their wiring harness, i never understand how they get the correct one, with so many changes to the cars over the years and different variants, 230, 250, 280, LHD, RHD, European, US, emission system, manual, auto etc etc
Good luck!
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It does have the emission system, next question can I delete it since my new harness does not look like it has the connections?
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All i can suggest is you do a general search, i found this post
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=14228.msg96974#msg96974
Hopefully someone who has removed their system will reply with advice
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Hi,
since this topic keeps coming up, I tried to bring things together. I hope it works that way.
...WRe
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That's very useful, i've added it to the tech manual
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Thanks for all of the great help and advice, but unfortunately the new wiring harness doesn't have the connections for either of the 6 and 8 pin modules. When I ordered the LHD USA wire harness for the late 280SL would be missing some connection. Either I go without the emission system or order another harness. Bummer!!!!!!!!!!
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Consult with lpeterssen. I think he may help.
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That is a good idea. I'm sure that he could build an addon harness.
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Dear Mr. Henderson
I certainly can build one emission control harness based on the wiring diagrams published somewhere else on this forum. I did rebuilt one of them this year for another member which signs as “ Robouch8828”. That was a manual transmission late 70’ pagoda with emissions control system. The harness was later installed by our friend Jo Alexander.
I will need you to send me a picture of the speed box and relay box terminals to make sure are equal the connector shape as the one published on this forum. Do that directly per email. Will send you a PM.
I have to study in deep the diagram before building the system.
Best regards
Eng. L.Peterssen
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Thanks will do
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Dear friends
Working on the estimate for our hobby friend Mr. Henderson on the emission control harness for an auto car.
Do anyone knows what kind of terminal connector are used at the two oil pressure switches that are part of the system, circled in green on photo attached below?
Best regards
L.Peterssen
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Hello Leo, does this help? there are some pictures on here, just eyelet connections if these are the correct switches
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=9029.0
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Hello Bob
Thanks for the link but I think is not the same thing. Nevertheless, is a good clue that connectors in that place should be eyelet style.
But the link you sent me is for the regular connections of an automatic transmission, which has one IDDLE switch terminal, one for ground, and another for the kickdown switch response.
The connections shown on picture circled in green are two separated pressure switches. They are not the connections of the automatic transmission selenoid terminal.
Will continue doing my Sherlock Holmes investigation.
Best regards
L.Peterssen
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Hello Leo, i understood that these are the same switches, they are just wired differently in a car with emission control, they would still need eyelet connections?
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Yes they would have the same type of connections
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Here are the photos of the units that do not have connectors.
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Thank you very for the photos Mr Henderson
Studying diagrams…… almost finished. Will continue later this afternoon, now I have to do some errands
Best regards
L.Peterssen
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Hello Leo, i understood that these are the same switches, they are just wired differently in a car with emission control, they would still need eyelet connections?
I am not yet convinced that are the same sensors, since all connections at the automatic transmission two position selenoid are positive signals, except 1 which feeds the IDDLE INCREASE SELENOID
The automatic transmission on a car without ECS the following lines:
1. IN: Ground, brown cable, big eyelet terminal
2. IN: Brown/black = kickdown (+) signal
3. IN: Brown/white = (+) signal coming from IDDLE SWITCH at intake manifold
4. OUTPUT: GREEN/RED which sends a (-) NEGATIVE signal to the IDDLE INCREASE SELENOID, APARENTLY when the VORNE (DRIVE) or RUECKWARDS (REVERSE) pressure switches trigger. This maybe are the pressure switches that describe the EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM diagram…….
SO….. If that is the case the two pressure switches described on the ECS end on this same port at the transmission that has the GREEN/RED line
Thank you very much for helping me solve this Sherlock a Holmes mistery….
Best regards
LP
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Also, I do not have either connection for the 17-degree switch or the 100-degree switch. I ordered this harness through SLS, I had no clue that all I was getting was just the most basic harness for my 280SL.
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I am not yet convinced that are the same sensors, since all connections at the automatic transmission two position selenoid are positive signals, except 1 which feeds the IDDLE INCREASE SELENOID
The automatic transmission on a car without ECS the following lines:
1. IN: Ground, brown cable, big eyelet terminal
2. IN: Brown/black = kickdown (+) signal
3. IN: Brown/white = (+) signal coming from IDDLE SWITCH at intake manifold
4. OUTPUT: GREEN/RED which sends a (-) NEGATIVE signal to the IDDLE INCREASE SELENOID, APARENTLY when the VORNE (DRIVE) or RUECKWARDS (REVERSE) pressure switches trigger. This maybe are the pressure switches that describe the EMISSION CONTROL SYSTEM diagram…….
SO….. If that is the case the two pressure switches described on the ECS end on this same port at the transmission that has the GREEN/RED line
Thank you very much for helping me solve this Sherlock a Holmes mistery….
Best regards
LP
Some more information on the ECS connections on this post, as i said earlier in this post, there are so may variables with wiring looms!
https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=33631.msg245991#msg245991
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After reading all of the great posts on this problem that I'm facing, my 280SL/8 is without a doubt a very late 280SL and it appears what was sent to me was a wiring harness for an early
280SL. Then to have to make an addon harness which in the end will have cost me over $2500 dollars. So, with that in mind I'm thinking just to wrap this harness up and sell it on Ebay and turn around and reorder it from another harness company based in the US this time.
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Dear Mr. Henderson
I understand your point. When ordering ask for the emission control harness, because that is always a separated additional harness.
There are many add on harnesses on MB pagodas and other similar cars made by Mercedes on the same era.
Harnesses:
1. MAIN HARNESS. this could be LHD, RHD, for AUTOMATIC transmission or MANUAL
2. REAR HARNESS. this could be LHD or RHD
3. AIR CONDITIONING HARNESS, always as an ADD ON harness
4. DEFROSTER HARNESS
5. SUN ROOF HARNESS, for cars like w111 coupés or W108/109
6. POWER WINDOWS harness
7. and finally EMISSION CONTROL HARNESS, this could be for MANUAL transmission or for AUTOMATIC.
Mercedes always built harnesses as ADD ON to a BASE SHARED harness among many cars of the same chassis number designation.
What I am trying to say is that you will not find one BASE harness with all that functionality on the same CORE. Those functions are always provided by additional harness that fit like a LEGO on the base one.
Best regards
L.Peterssen
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CJ,
I feel your pain but:
They (SLS) are actually pretty detailed when it comes to ordering a harness. I was going to get one from them as well but bought one from a forum member instead.
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After reading all of the great posts on this problem that I'm facing, my 280SL/8 is without a doubt a very late 280SL and it appears what was sent to me was a wiring harness for an early
280SL. Then to have to make an addon harness which in the end will have cost me over $2500 dollars. So, with that in mind I'm thinking just to wrap this harness up and sell it on Ebay and turn around and reorder it from another harness company based in the US this time.
If i were in your position, the only two options i would consider, is to 1. order the add on harness from Leo Peterssen, this would be far less expensive than starting from scratch, and more chance of being correct than from any other supplier, or 2. consider doing away with the emission control system, relatively simple and inexpensive (when compared to other options) from what i've read on here, and lots of posts as to how to do it
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Very good points but to do away with the emission control system will cause more problems that could become another headache.
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Do anyone knows what kind of terminal connector are used at the two oil pressure switches that are part of the system, circled in green on photo attached below?
Hi,
the size of the oil pressure switch connector eyelet is 4,4 x 1,8 x 8mm.
...WRe
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Many thanks WRE for that info. So it has the standard eyelet size used on every terminal as in main fuse box.
Best regards
Lp
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Very good points but to do away with the emission control system will cause more problems that could become another headache.
CJ,
Please elaborate. If I recall correctly, people have posted on this forum that it is not a problem, so interested in your opinion/experience.
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Well to start off with, this car was built with an emission system installed which means that it receives signals from the transmission, fuel control, timing, and vacuum system among other inputs like 17c degree and 100c degree switches. Not to mention I'm restoring this car as close to original as possible. Not much else to explain I guess.