Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Larkey on March 01, 2023, 16:13:37
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I’m new to this and become a recent owner of a 1969 RHD 280SL auto in silver. It runs well and I’m having some mechanical work done to improve brakes, steering and a few other things. I’m doing this with SL Shop and their suggestion is to do a full resto to address some underbody corrosion, paint work etc. it’s a little bit scruffy but I’m ok with that and plan to improve it over time. Question is are there sensible alternatives to the £120-150k full resto? It seems that’s the SL Shop preferred type of work. Would you trust someone else in the U.K. to do a strip and respray for a much lower price? Or is it like peeling an onion and you end up taking it back to a full resto? Views appreciated.
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rabbit hole.
Once everything is blown apart to fix the body and paint, hard to put old crusty parts back on the car.
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If you strip the car completely and have come this far, there is only one good restoration in my view; "the full monty". Whether the SLShop in the UK is the most cost effective I can't say.
Maybe you can do a lot yourself, if you like.
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I think peeling an onion describes it well. IMO, drive and enjoy it the way it is with minimum effort until you are ready to spend serious $$.
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Beware of "cheap" quotes for a strip and respray, these cars are 50+ years old and love to rust in the uk., And once you start it is impossible to stop as it's hard to weld new metal to rust.
You may want to use it for a while before embarking on a complete body refurb,providing it is safe,maybe put it in for an MOT.
Keep the faith though,they are fantastic cars.
Paul
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I would speak to Roger Edwards at Amersham, I use them and they are very honest. They will do as little or as much as you want. Another option may be using the car as it is for while and see how you get on, then sale it and put the money toward a better car not needing a full resto.
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If I lived in GB the first person I’d talk to is Colin Ferns (stickandrudderman). He is incredibly knowledgeable, knows w113 inside and out and is a fair and honest person. I’d seek his opinion before doing anything. He’s a member here. Although I’ve ordered parts from the SLShop, I’ve not had them do any work for me. There are British members of this group, however, who have expressed skepticism of their business practices.
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I would second Lens comments on Colin Fern. Many of the members here use him for their cars and have never heard a bad word on his work.
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Two alternatives to having your car fully restored:
(1) do it yourself, this way you will save 90% of the cost of having it done
(2) more realistic: sell your decent car for good money, then look for one where the poor current owner went the full monty and spent the $150-200K s/he will never recoup, and simply enjoy
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Two alternatives to having your car fully restored:
(1) do it yourself, this way you will save 90% of the cost of having it done
(2) more realistic: sell your decent car for good money, then look for one where the poor current owner went the full monty and spent the $150-200K s/he will never recoup, and simply enjoy
Exactly.
I was about to say the same. It does not make any financial sense to have a restorer (professional shop) do a full restauration on a pagoda.
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It does not make any financial sense to have a restorer (professional shop) do a full restauration on a pagoda.
Unless of course you want a fully restored pagoda!
Thank you Gentlemen for the recommendation.
There's only one way to "restore" a car and if you embark on that road your car will be rendered a pile of scrap as a start and then you are committed to whatever it costs to get over the finish line. It's not for the faint hearted.
You should ask the UK Mercedes Benz club if they would recommend The SL Shop. ;)
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I think unless you have the resources and know up front in the short term that you likely wont get the money back then full restore. But if the car is driving well and looks presentable just correct any structural issues for safety. I think as others mentioned doing the work yourself is best for at least some of it.
Good luck
Pinder
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Unless of course you want a fully restored pagoda!
Assuming you don't have any attachment's to a specific car, the point is that you can very likely buy a restored pagoda for less than what a restauration would cost you. If you can't do at least some of the work yourself and you just roll it into your restores shop, you are at his mercy and start sending checks for a couple of years before you get your car back. I haven't heard of a project yet that was finished under budget.
IMO, that process and headache can be avoided.
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You could always go with a rolling restoration.
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I looked for years before I found the right car, then in 2013 I did find her and named her "Blue Tornado" I found her in a millenaries climate controlled garage with 18 other American duties from the 40s to the 60s.
Both Colin Ferns when he visited here in Canada and the Benz Dr. when he did some work on her drove my car. They can verify it is a good driver. In the past 10 years I drove this car over 18,000 miles as far as maintenance spend less then $4,000- Canadian.
I know a fellow that spend a great deal of money to do a full restoration, money he will never ever recuperate again. He was not able to drive the car for some 4 years. That certainly was not a way to enjoy the car. If he would have done a rolling restoration (meaning find out what all needs to be done and address the most important safety uses first). The he would have been able to enjoy the car in-between smaller projects. As for the cost he would have been able to control this and spend a lot less.
So my recommendation to anyone seeking to purchase a 50 plus old car.
A) Find out what needs to be done
B) Put a price on each item parts and labor
C) Spread it out over time and do enjoy the car in-between projects.
Just my 2 cents :)
Dieter
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I looked for years before I found the right car, then in 2013 I did find her and named her "Blue Tornado" I found her in a millenaries climate controlled garage with 18 other American duties from the 40s to the 60s.
Both Colin Ferns when he visited here in Canada and the Benz Dr. when he did some work on her drove my car. They can verify it is a good driver. In the past 10 years I drove this car over 18,000 miles as far as maintenance spend less then $4,000- Canadian.
I know a fellow that spend a great deal of money to do a full restoration, money he will never ever recuperate again. He was not able to drive the car for some 4 years. That certainly was not a way to enjoy the car. If he would have done a rolling restoration (meaning find out what all needs to be done and address the most important safety uses first). The he would have been able to enjoy the car in-between smaller projects. As for the cost he would have been able to control this and spend a lot less.
So my recommendation to anyone seeking to purchase a 50 plus old car.
A) Find out what needs to be done
B) Put a price on each item parts and labor
C) Spread it out over time and do enjoy the car in-between projects.
Just my 2 cents :)
Dieter
Some cars qualify for rolling restoration but if we are talking about the same car it was just barely within that level. Restoring cars is far more complicated and expensive than most expect it to be.
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"....their suggestion is to do a full resto to address some underbody corrosion..."
What's the extent of this "corrosion"? Is it surface stuff? Potentially iceberg type (perforation, most likely more that cannot be seen type of rust)?
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Thanks everyone for the replies. Very helpful. I’m going to enjoy driving her over the spring and summer. She already has an MoT and the work I’m having done now should get her running even better and as safe as possible. And I’ll take my time on deciding what next and whether that’s for me or someone else to take on. Or I just enjoy her as it is!
One question I had to those saying the full restoration would never make financial sense. Fully restored RHD 280 cars are being sold (or at least advertised!) for anywhere between £280-320k. Which would mean even with an expensive restoration I would have appreciated the asset. Are you saying there’s no way they are really worth that or sell for that kind of money? By the way, I’m not looking to make money, but it helps justify the outlay!
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I think it would be difficult for a private seller to achieve that sort of money for a car, dealers like the SL shop have access to buyers who will spend this because of the confidence of warranties etc
These auction results are more realistic, and even then, the cars making the most may have been commercial sellers
https://www.carandclassic.com/auctions/results?q=mercedes+pagoda&make=all&country=all
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Thanks everyone for the replies. Very helpful. I’m going to enjoy driving her over the spring and summer. She already has an MoT and the work I’m having done now should get her running even better and as safe as possible. And I’ll take my time on deciding what next and whether that’s for me or someone else to take on. Or I just enjoy her as it is!
One question I had to those saying the full restoration would never make financial sense. Fully restored RHD 280 cars are being sold (or at least advertised!) for anywhere between £280-320k. Which would mean even with an expensive restoration I would have appreciated the asset. Are you saying there’s no way they are really worth that or sell for that kind of money? By the way, I’m not looking to make money, but it helps justify the outlay!
With respect, £280-320K is dreamland. Have a look at the thread "This is amazing", you can find it by typing that phrase in the search box. Apparently or perhaps allegedly £200K was spent on a car that is now being sold for £50K (if they're lucky).
I'm having some work done on my '66 230SL; a small area of rust was highlighted in the MOT as an advisory, but once we'd started peeling that onion...
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I think a left hand drive 230 where someone seems to have fitted a 1990’s interior from a different car is always going to struggle to make a good price.
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Have a look at the thread "This is amazing", you can find it by typing that phrase in the search box. Apparently or perhaps allegedly £200K was spent on a car that is now being sold for £50K (if they're lucky).
Yes but that car is a bit of a mess and should not be used as a data point for the value of restored cars.
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I suspect that very few of these £180K + cars are rarely seen on the roads.
Paul
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We all have different financial means. If you have the resources to do a full restoration, then it should be considered. I would get the car to both the businesses referenced above for their evaluations and quotes. I also agree that it would be very difficult to sell that restored car (right away, or a few years later) and recover the cost of purchase + restoration. Also, would you drive that restored car and risk lowering its value through wear and tear, or worse an accident?
If the rust is severe and is a structural safety issue (unibody construction, remember!) then address it. It may lead to a full restoration, maybe not. Or, you just might sell it to someone with deeper pockets to restore. But, you don't want to drive an unsafe car.
If the rust is cosmetic, drive the car 1,000 miles or more this summer and see if you fall in love with it. Then decide what to do.
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A fully restored 280SL was sold for USD over 400K. I know the seller and I saw that car. The buyer was a Japanese guy. But that 280SL was beyond perfect, the guy got right down to every single washer everything on that car was mint and factory from the ground up. If the right buyer wants the best in the world, he will pay for it.
As far as restorations in general, if I had been told from the getgo that you will spend XXX,XXX I would have said no. But pay a chunk here and a chunk there and two years later a little over 100K has been spent, but everything that was put into my car was factory. I ended up rebuilding / restoring most everything. The car had no rust which was good. My car is a one owner car not driven too much which was good. We used factory oil based paint. Everything now works including ice cold AC. And everything looks close to perfect. Not perfect because I could have done more. There is always that decision to be made - should I replace this part that is original and has a little scratch or dimple in it or put something non factory in that will look brand new. Because at some point too it becomes impossible to get certain parts, at least factory parts. There is usually more to be done, notwithstanding that car that sold for over 400K, I went over that car so carefully and no matter where I looked, it appeared showroom.
There are 280SLs and there are 280SLs. But by and large the money you put into a full restoration of any classic car you will be lucky to get back.
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It's great you commissioned such a thorough restoration, your best reward is the enjoyment from driving and owning your Pagoda.
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there are so many cars and not enough time. Cees please find one of these for your next project. that would be a dream.
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1973-ferrari-246-3/
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sorry i know its not a w113.
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Haha yes and I remember well the days these little Dinos could be bought for no more than $25K.
I am very much enjoying restoring the Alfa Giulietta Sprint; the most serious corrosion has been remediated - although right now I am doing the final touches on the Lancia Fulvia, hope to have that all done in the coming few weeks after which I will be selling it on BAT ...
I am not sure yet if there will be a next project but if there is then it will most likely be something that pops out of the woodwork here in Los Angeles on Craigslist.
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Yes but that car is a bit of a mess and should not be used as a data point for the value of restored cars.
That was my point.