Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: terry shores on June 17, 2005, 07:31:26
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4556987420&category=6338
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I've always liked this color combo.
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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photos are always complimentary, cracked steering wheel unusual with only 40k miles, weird gm type after-market seat belts, split carpet in rear was there a kinderseat?, trunk mat seems brand new and creased which means it was folded for a while (was this while the paint dried?, center wood storage bin quite off kilter what would explain this? Needs a serious going over to avoid pitfalls could be a star if it checks out
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quote:
Originally posted by peterm
photos are always complimentary, cracked steering wheel unusual with only 40k miles, weird gm type after-market seat belts, split carpet in rear was there a kinderseat?, trunk mat seems brand new and creased which means it was folded for a while (was this while the paint dried?, center wood storage bin quite off kilter what would explain this? Needs a serious going over to avoid pitfalls could be a star if it checks out
Photos are indeed complimentary, never buy a car sight unseen!
Cracking of the steering wheel is more a factor of age and has little to do with mileage.
Trunk mat is new, folds are from shipping. Takes a while before they settle out. Been there, done that.
Perhaps the center console is not adhered to the tunnel yet, might have been removed for something?
Someone did a retractable seat belt retrofit; perhaps when the got the price from MB for the same did they opt for the GM style...when this kind of work was usually done, the car was not yet a classic and people didn't always pay attention to originality.
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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Funny - my car is just as old and the steering wheel is not cracked.
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My car is also a 71 with 44k original and it is cracked exactly the same! Not for long though!!
theengineer Posted - 17 Jun 2005 : 10:50:55
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Funny - my car is just as old and the steering wheel is not cracked.
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Glad to see I'm not the only one carrying heavy prescription meds in my tool roll.
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Personally, I think its a good looking specimen. I'd pay 25-30 if it runs strong.
James
63 230SL
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Hey, it was a helluva car the first time I saw it with 10K more miles on it:
http://sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=2915
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Douglas Kim: Don't you know it: The milage gets less each time it's being sold. My car has "only" 28k miles on it. Also: Look at the wear of the brake and clutch pedals. Does that look like "low milage"?
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Douglas
Gold Level
USA
1164 Posts
You are absolutely correct. It is the same car!! SOMEONE IS TRYING TO PULL A FAST ONE. You can tell it is the same car from the cracks on the pad on the steering wheel. EXACTLY THE SAME!! hmmmmmm
IS LAGUNACLASSICS THE CULPRIT OR THE VICTIM??????
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Hey, it was a helluva car the first time I saw it with 10K more miles on it:
http://sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=2915
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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This is not a minor offense. People get thrown in prison for stuff like this.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Doug great pick up, i think they just drove it to the uplosterer and engine detail shop in reverse. Also those floor mats in the new posting help hide quite a bit of carpet wear evident in the old listing
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Here is THE car again!! With a "great story" and some cosmetics, a lower mileage and the price has gone from 27.5 to 45 grand!!
http://www.oursl.com/inventory/1964-71/113-142.htm#
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Would someone please report this to ebay. I've been trying, but my browser (Macintosh Safari) will not allow me to use their ridiculous complaint form.
The car was advertised in 2 other places (here and ourSL.com) with higher mileage and this is no small offense. We need to keep sellers like this on notice that the enthusiast community is being vigilant.
Here's the link:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/contact_us/_base/index.html
Thanks.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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I will take care of it! I emailed the seller (Laguna Classics) I pointed out the discrepancies in the ebay ad. He told me that if I thought a 10,000 mile discrepancy mattered on such a fine vehicle!! That I was obviously an "IDIOT" and knew absolutely nothing about the car business! With a few back and forths in email form, he finally told me to do something to myself that I believe is physically impossible!
ps. I believe and this is just my personal opinion. With the wear and tear on the car in the before pictures. I think the car had 149,000 miles before Laguna Classics did their magic! I emailed the original seller back east and asked him about the situation and Laguna Classics. He said it was "Hollywood creating an illusion."
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Would someone please report this to ebay. I've been trying, but my browser (Macintosh Safari) will not allow me to use their ridiculous complaint form.
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Terry -- As I was reading your post about what that jackass at Laguna Classics said to you my blood pressure began to rise. Best of luck to you, Terry, in pursuing this with ebay. I'll bet I'm not the only one cheering for you on this.
Go get 'em tiger!
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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If your blood is boiling, by all means report it too. ebay should feel compelled to take action and there are honest people out there who are bidding on a car that is being shamelessly misrepresented.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Douglas -- I just tried doing exactly that. I'm probably missing something obvious, but I couldn't find what I considered a good link for reporting/complaining about this sort of thing to ebay.
Can anyone post that ebay link? If so then perhaps several of us can complain about the dealer who blew off Terry.
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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I would think a note to the Feds and the local paper might genrate some unwanted interest and press. I'm going to be in Laguna in a couple of weeks I might have to see if I can swing by and check it out.
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Go to:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/
Then click on "Contact Us" on the left.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Done.
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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As I'm getting older, I'm getting more cynical: This is nodoubt a fine car, but the claims made sound suspicious: It is claimed the car was sold originally into Pennsylvania. That would explain no A/C. But there would be rust. My neighbor has a Pagoda which spent its early years in the midwest. It has some rust. It's almost unavoidable. The claimed low milage is suspicious: Hollywood Speedometer will reset any milage to zero on request. Then they put their sticker on. Looks like the car has been passed on thru several owners:Each tried to make it look a little more appealing and make some profit. It's very common. There is a card game in Germany called:"Schwarzer Peter". All cards have a matching card except one: The black Peter. He who is left with it, looses. I hope, the person who becomes the successful bidder, inspects the car carefully or has it inspected before paying.
Looking at the listing <http://oursl.com/inventory/1964-71/113-142.htm#> it appears to be the same car. Also, the engine oil filler cap is the bayonet type. On mine, also a '69, it is the screw type. There is a solenoid shown on top of the intake manifold. It does not appear to be connected: No wiring. It wouldn't be used on a four speed, but I have it with an automatic. It increases idle rpm when the transmission is in drive. Maybe an engine from another car? The datenblatt would show that.
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A couple of other observations about this auction. First, take a good look at the pix. Am I imagining things or is the speedometer obscured in each image of the dash? It looks like it's re-touched to look foggy.
Also, the seller is playing a dangerous game. California law entitles buyers of cars with tampered odometers to claim 3 times their damages. If you consider that legitimate low-mileage examples trade in the neighborhood of $70K, that's real money.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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These speedometers are really easy to manipulate. Any analog speedometer that I have attempted to reset was a piece of cake. They really are no challenge whatsoever. I could have any 113 done in about 90 minutes, no problem. I have put different speedos in my car and truck and have set the mileage to what the cars originally showed very easily. Mileage can be an indicator but is just a small part of the puzzle.
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Hi Guys,
I was hoping not to have to reveal this, but the phenomenon of the speedo is a little-known corollary to the Coreolis Effect. Cars that move west actually lose mileage because of the Earth's curvature. 8)
Hmmm.. but because I moved WAY east, that makes me higher mileage, yes?
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
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Trice: It doesn't work that way with beautiful women: the older they get, the more character they acquire and out west there is a great shortage of women with character. All they have out west are blondes with implants. The hair colour is fake, the ti*s are and the skin is dyed. Their vocabulary is limited to: "Yes Baby, yes, yes". Who can blame a used car salesman for faking it as well?
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Here's another Pagoda from the same seller using a different screen name. This time, he's being much more cautious about the car's claimed mileage:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4560496444&category=6338
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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It's back. The good news is that the odometer seems to have stabilized. It still shows 39K, but at least it's not moving backwards any longer:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-SL-Class-280SL-1969-Mercedes-280-SL-Roadster-39K-Orig-Miles-CA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6338QQitemZ4567812047QQrdZ1
(Note: the seller should consider changing the covers on the brake and clutch pedals on this car.)
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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I have again notified both the seller and ebay of the odometer tampering, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. What a crock of a history. But, let's be fair. It could have happened by accident when Lagunaclassics was detailing the engine bay. Maybe a disc polisher got too close to the speedo cable. Yeah, that's the story, that's what happened. Don't get me started.
Greg
'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon
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Three days ago I posted a message, maybe 20 down the list, about a nice green SL in the showroom of Frank's in Laguna Beach.
It's the same car as this one!
If anyone wants to take a look it's in the showroom down on PCH. Definitely worth the current bid but not the price on the window in the showroom which I believe is closer to $50K now.
Looking at the posts it seems that the car has been on e-bay since June? Can't get more than $26K?
Also I wonder if Frank's and LagunaClassics are same group or if seller just has car on consigment in the showroom. I recognize the e-mail address, this seller has had many nice cars for sale over the years, must have contacts with some mechanics I'm guessing, maybe even the mechanics at Frank's (or might be Frank!). Has had too many nice ones for sale that I did not see in other places.
Really wonder how he came across this one though as I did see the earlier ad. Would love to know the story!
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Last week, that car was still up on Roy Spencer's site (ourSL.com) from when the previous seller had it on the market with 10K more miles on the odometer. It was only just removed from that site.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Wow the price shot up suddenly. Definitely worth more than the $26K bid this morning. I put the value in the $35K range so current bid is about right. While the paint is good there are some noticeable blemishes, not sure they can be repaired and blended. If not you're looking at about $6 maybe $7K in paint to bring it up to say low $40s value, assuming the mechanicals have been professionally re-done.
If I knew of this car's interesting history and that it was on e-bay I would have checked it out more closely. I don't remember if it has A/C (think it does not).
If it needs major mechanical work or if rust repairs were shoddy (couldn't look underneath) current bid is too high.
Would have been a good buy for Steve looking at the 230SL, before the interior and engine compartment were re-done and of course before the mark-ups!
This looks to me like a solid car with maybe an unrealistic price expectation from the seller. It will be interesting to see highest bid and if that meets reserve. Definitely a test of the value of cars in this condition which are getting hard to find.
Pete
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The seller stands behind the reading, for what it is worth:
Copy of email from broker at Laguna:
"Thank you Greg,
I found out about the odometer discrepancy a while back and immidiately
contacted the last owner and also the broker.
I received everything in writing from the last owner and also the
broker
that the miles of 39k.are for sure original.
Thanks again for the update.
Best regards,
Chris"
'64 230sl, fully sorted out...ooops, spoke too soon
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Why would he have to confirm anything from the previous owner if he has all the maintenance records?
And by the way, I also contacted the broker and he did NOT confirm the odometer reading of 39K.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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We saw the before and after pictures. NO WAY THAT IS A 39K MILE CAR!!
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Boy, you got me interested here...
Out of the blue last week I received the following email...Now I understand this is a different model, but follow along and tell me what seems rotten in Belgium, or is it Laguna?
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X-Originating-IP: [82.76.199.249]
X-Originating-Email: [redcamaro777@hotmail.com]
X-Sender: redcamaro777@hotmail.com
Hello ,
First of all thanks for your interest in my car.Let me tell you a few
things about it : the car is in perfect shape ,100% orriginal, never
damaged. I have clean title in hand.
I enharited the car from my late uncle and I have no use for it, old
cars were his passion, not mine.
My final price on this car is 5800 EURO. I know it seems a little low, but
I will be quite happy to get rid of it, believe me,because ever since
my uncle passed away this year, it just sits useless in my garage.If
you will take this price, I am willing to pay for shipping and
insurance to your location.
Presently I am located in Europe ,Belgium ,but I'm willing to ship
anywhere in Europe ,Ca or the US, as my father used to work with DHL
here and he still has some privileges in the company(great discounts,
priority deliveries...you know...). The car is located in Spain and
will be shipped from here.
I don't know much about theese cars, but i will be happy to asist you in any
way.Please get back to me asap if you decide to buy.
Best regards,
Emil
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I received some pictures and in my reply following pics,
I played along...i was informed of the VIN-and where he says the car was listed...
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X-Originating-IP: [82.76.198.21]
X-Originating-Email: [redcamaro777@hotmail.com]
Hi,
I had the anoncement for the or the site eBay.
The VIN number is 198 042 10 002610
Regards,
Emil
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When i saw this car you all are talking about, the fountain just kind of stuck out...
What do you think?
Otherwise, I'll hop a flight to wherever to buy this handsome car...Think it'll be there waiting on me? Or, I'm sure that the delivery man will really show up with it...yea- that'll happen!
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Steve From Atlanta
Out Hunting For My SL
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SteveRen
FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD ***** THIS IS THE EXACT SAME WORDING AS THE FRAUDS ON EBAY!!!! It is not his car, he is not in Belgium and he won't ship it for free!!! PRICE IS WAY WRONG, EVERYTHING IS WRONG! FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD!!!!
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It's kind of like that Dell 42" Plasma that i was offered for $1100.00 when i was bidding on the same item type...I received that offer no less than 20 times...
Steve From Atlanta
Out Hunting For My SL
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It's back for the third time:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-SL-Class-280SL-1969-Mercedes-280-SL-Convertible-39K-Orig-Miles_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6338QQitemZ4575195265QQrdZ1
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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When I had pointed out the discrepancies in mileage etc. and that it was the same car recently for sale on ourSL. I told the salesman at Laguna classics it was easy to tell it was the same car by the cracks in the hub on the steering wheel!! HE MUST OF LISTENED TO ME BECAUSE THEY NOW HAVE A NEW HUB!! The car is still listed at ourSL.
http://www.oursl.com/inventory/1964-71/113-142.htm
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I find it funny how that car has a worn clutch pedal on the right side of the rubber cover. I would guess that they replaced the brake pedal cover, then put the old one on the clutch pedal. You'd think they would splurge and pay the $10 for both covers for a $45K car.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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quote:
Originally posted by terry shores
SteveRen
FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD ***** THIS IS THE EXACT SAME WORDING AS THE FRAUDS ON EBAY!!!! It is not his car, he is not in Belgium and he won't ship it for free!!! PRICE IS WAY WRONG, EVERYTHING IS WRONG! FRAUD FRAUD FRAUD!!!!
Terry,
So, I take it that you're not convinced that this is legit', eh? Just kidding. I heard you shouting across the room.
SteveRen,
Terry is 100% correct. This character Emil is trying to hook some sucker into a scheme to steal money. If you play along further, it will become more convoluted and you will be asked to send some money to him. The car is in Spain, he is in Belgium and he will probably be askin' you to send cash to the Cayman Islands.
Run away from that one.
Best regards,
Don