Pagoda SL Group

W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: George Davis on June 13, 2005, 13:06:40

Title: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: George Davis on June 13, 2005, 13:06:40
We were yakking with the owner of a 1963 220 SEb at a recent MBCA event.  Someone asked what the b meant, but no one there knew.  Anyone here know?

Thanks!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: mbzse on June 13, 2005, 13:15:48
quote:
George Davis wrote

../..a 1963 220 SEb...  Someone asked what the b meant, but no one there knew.  Anyone here know? Thanks!

It is a suffix, put there to differ this W111 Finback automobile from the 220SE W128, based on the Ponton W180 type

/Hans in Stockholm
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: J. Huber on June 13, 2005, 13:17:01
Hey George. Since I am at work (college library), I decided to look busy with your reference question. It would appear the b series of 220SE was a new and improved version of the original 220SE. Here's my info source:

http://www.germancarfans.com/classics.cfm/classicid/5050516.001/page/2/lang/eng/mercedes/1.html

James
63 230SL
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: J. Huber on June 13, 2005, 13:33:25
Looks like Hans got ya there quicker than I could type! Good job Hans.

James
63 230SL
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: mbzse on June 13, 2005, 13:45:01
quote:
James h wrote

Looks like Hans got ya there quicker than I could type! Good job Hans.

You're pretty quick as well James - I'd call it a draw  ;-)
Greetings

/Hans in Stockholm
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: George Davis on June 13, 2005, 14:07:39
Hans and James,

you guys are both fast!  Thanks!


George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: Mike Hughes on June 14, 2005, 15:23:49
Was it a Cabriolet?

- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havanna Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: A Dalton on June 14, 2005, 15:33:00
Europeon for convertible..

..also known as drophead coupe
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: Mike Hughes on June 14, 2005, 15:49:50
That's what I was getting around to.  The"b" goes back to the pre-war drophead designations used by DB.  A Cabriolet "A" was a two door cabriolet with only one side window on each side.  A Cabriolet "B" was a two door cabriolet with two side windows on each side, one in the door and one in the body behind the door.  A Cabriolet "C" was a four door cabriolet with two windows on each side, one in each door.  A Cabriolet "D" was a four door cabriolet with three windows on each side, one in each door and one in the body behind the rear door.

These designations were applied from time to time in the post war years.  For instance, the 300 "Adenauer" cabriolet was designated 300d, the 220SE cabriolet was a 220SEb.  If M-B had continued to use these designations as rigorously in the post-war years as they did before the war there would not be so much mystery about their meaning today.

- Mike Hughes  -ô¿ô-
  1966 230SL Auto P/S
  Havanna Brown (408)
  Light Beige (181)
  Cream M-B Tex (121)

Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: George Davis on June 14, 2005, 16:00:44
Mike,

the 220 SEb that prompted my question is a coupe, but thanks for that fascinating info on the cab A, B, C and D meanings!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: Jonny B on June 15, 2005, 05:33:42
TO get the model by model breakdown and an explanation of what each model, capital C etc, or lower case c's, b's etc. Check out Robert Nitske's book on the MB production models. It has all the designations, specs, etc.

Jonny B
1967 250SL Auto
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: glennard on June 15, 2005, 06:57:20
quote:
Originally posted by George Davis

We were yakking with the owner of a 1963 220 SEb at a recent MBCA event.  Someone asked what the b meant, but no one there knew.  Anyone here know?

Thanks!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual


(I) vote for the logic that MB had a 220SE in the ponton style in the late 50's and needed a new tag for the new body style, but same engine.  Hence, the 111 coupe was a 220SEb- and one of MB's better looking models.
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: glennard on June 15, 2005, 07:03:50
quote:
Originally posted by glennard

quote:
Originally posted by George Davis

We were yakking with the owner of a 1963 220 SEb at a recent MBCA event.  Someone asked what the b meant, but no one there knew.  Anyone here know?

Thanks!

George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual


(I) vote for the logic that MB had a 220SE in the ponton style in the late 50's and needed a new tag for the new body style, but same engine.  Hence, the 111 coupe was a 220SEb- and one of MB's better looking models.


Also,--- MB had a 220 model in the 50's - then a 220a in '55 with a new 6 cylinder cam/rocker arm arrangement. Evolved to the 230,250,280,300 straight sixes-good engines!
Title: Re: OT: what does the "b" mean in 220 SEb?
Post by: ja17 on June 15, 2005, 16:26:29
Yes, the small letter designations are usually meant to designate variations within the model group. These small letters are not displayed outward like the "SL", "SL" "D" etc.
the Adenaur sedans had many variations within the model: 300a, 300b, 300c, 300d, all in about a eight year period! The 300d (with a small case "d") was NOT a diesel in this case!

Joe Alexander
Blacklick, Ohio