Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: n/a on May 31, 2005, 14:08:49
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Most of these cars have oil leaks. Agreed? Does anyone know if the leaks are there from day one or it is because of age? Where are the most troublesome spots for oil leaks?
Louis 70 280sl auto red
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I believe the front engine seal is the most common place, but the differential also tends to leak.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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I now have a small oil leak at the injection pump. Even though I replaced the IP seal with a new one when I installed my rebuilt injection pump, I still have a small leak at the bottom of the pump. Very disappointing!
Bob
bpossel
Memphis, TN.
1971 280SL
1997 E320
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The steering shock/damper can leak oil if it's bad, since it's under the engine it looks like an engine leak.
George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual
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quote:
Originally posted by ll2002
Does anyone know if the leaks are there from day one or it is because of age?
I don't think MB would provide a leaking engine from the factory.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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Well, you guys pretty much summed up my garage floor. My worst leak seems to be rear end differential area. I had the pinion seal changed but it still leaks so maybe its the cuff? I also have some kind of slow leak up front -- probably the front engine seal? Finally, my IP is moist near the spring-looking thing.
James
63 230SL
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I do not believe any auto manufacturer, especially a prestigious one like MB, would intentionally supply a leaky engine. However, the leaks that we are all experiencing, even with a rebuilt engine, seem to suggest that a leaky engine is acceptable by design. It is just frustrating to see all those spots on the floor, not to mention the constant thread of having the Pagoda kicked out of the garage.
Louis 70 280sl auto red
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The poor old dear leaks oil and it hasn't run in anger for at least 5 years! (yes I know restoration needs to start) seals sometimes do not like to "sit" in the same position for extended lengths of time...
On cars that are running sometimes you can replace the seal and it still leaks. This can happen if the surface the seal is running on is damaged or worn. my BMW 2002Tii was pi**ing oil out of the front engine seal which I tracked down to a worn surface on the pulley that drives the mechanical injection. I replaced the pulley and seal, stopped the leak.
If a component is worn and you cannot replace it you can sometiems get away with getting the running surface reground, plated or sleeved.
you may have to consider "oversized" seals, but if the worst comes to the worst you can always get bespoke seals made.
Malc
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I had my SL to the bi-annual mandatory check up last week, and the only thing the mechanic complained about was an oil leak from the engine. The engine was rebuilt last year and it’s dripping a drop or two now and then – not a big problem. Eager to get the car accepted for another two years on the road I let the guy talk me into buying half a litre of “Engine Stop Leak”. He is an old mechanic and claimed he had used this with great success many times before. The can of oil should be added to a warm engine – sit for 10 minutes with engine at idle, and should stop any leak within 500km.
I am generally reluctant to any additives, but I do feel a little urge to try it. Any comments?
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Per G. Birkeland
69 280 sl aut 834
Norway
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The oil bath air filter in my car always caused a puddle on the garage floor until I levelled the filter housing.
When I had the rear axle rebuilt the mechanic found the small drip coming from the axle oil drain plug.
He used some teflon tape on the hex plug and no more drips.
I had previously had the pinion seal replaced but it didn't stop that drip.
Next Big job will be to have the front crankshaft seal replaced.
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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Diff leaks are common cuz guys overfill the diff on a lift with the axle tubes hanging down.. they have to be level to attain proper fill level. [ it is best to have the fill slightly lower than the plug, so you have to reach a small finger in to test]
Another overlooked diff condition that causes leaks is a plugged vent/filter. Raises hell with front seal and axle seals..very few even look at it...
Eng oil is also best level when 1/2 way mark at warm engine after 5 min drain time lapse...
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One possibility with rear axle leaks is that they are actually coming from the front - or at least so a veteran mechanic told me last week: while driving, a leaking engine keeps leaking and the oil that normally falls straight down will travel to the rear of the car (making that oily); when you park it, it drops on the floor there.
Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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I am very interested in learning the result of the “Engine Stop Leak” formula. I am ready to try some if it works as described.
Louis 70 280sl auto red
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Louis,
I havn't tried it yet - hoping for some inputs from anybody else familiar with these kind of products.
Per G. Birkeland
69 280 sl aut 834
Norway
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I used a "Stop Leak" product made by eoither Wynns or Forte. I used it in a 2.9 V6 Granada that had a rear crank leak. It had dripped for a few years but it wasn't worth taking the engine or tranny out just to fix the leak. I tried the Stop Leak and had 100% success. After about a week it stopped completely and never leaked a drop again !
I think it swells the seals slightly so if the seals are in decent condition it'll work. If the seals are original or damaged then obviously you'll still need to replace them !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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When I got my car in Oct. '03 it leaked so much it was an embarassment. The local MB dealer wrote on the invoice:"Oil leaks unrepairable". I chased down all the leaks and fixed them. It takes time and persistence. I have a clean garage floor because I lay down on it. Under the car there is cardboard so I can see leaks. After driving there is one drop of oil hanging on the engine oil drain plug and a little wetness around the rear axle oil drain plug. I wipe that off using a toilet paper. I consider this amount of leakage acceptable. I would not use any product advertised to stop leaks. Look at my post:"how many leaks,let me count the ways"http://index.php?topic=2360
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I have leaks, but they improved considerably when, on the advice of Hans-my mechanic, I started using Mobil Delvac1 5w40 synthetic oil.
Overnight, I went from leaking 1/2 qrt/week to nearly nothing.
I'm a banker, not an engineer, so I can't explain the outcome, but I'm not exaggerating the change. Hans states that it lubricates the seals/gaskets.
I couldn't find a retailer who sold it in this area, so I had to buy a case from the distributor. I've had to add about 1 quart in the last 8 months.
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Amazing story about oil consumption, Chris. Sounds like night and day. Can you give us some more insight into your driving? How long had you owned the car before you changed over to Delvac? Did the previous owner drive it as much as you? What I'm trying to understand is if anything else factored into the leakage issue to slow it down. Does the car ever smoke? Maybe the previous consumption wasn't entirely from leakage.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Chris,
Isn't 'Delvac' an oil meant for diesel engines?
It's certainly been recommended to me before.
naj
65 230SL
68 280SL
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http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Mobil_1_vs_Mobil_Delvac_1_for_a_Gasoline_Engine.aspx
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Driving habits:
Prior owner was 67 yr old woman - original owner - drove 6,000 miles/yr in Long Beach California. Maybe aggressive long ago, but not now.
My driving: On the interstate - 60mph to 80mph. A little heavy on start/stop, but not aggressively so. Probably on pace for about 4,000 miles/year Only "blue smoke" is right after a start when I gun it in neutral to wake it up...
Mobil Delvac is usually only available in 55 gallon drums or at truck stops, but I was unable to find 5w40 in any truck stop between Evansville In and Louisville Ky that were noted on Mobil's site.
I finally went to the local distributor who had a case in 1/2 gallon bottles...I'm thinking I'll burn that in two months, and I still haven't emptied the first bottle!
I met a guy last Sunday with a '72 300SEL this weekend and he had the opposite effect with synthetic...nonetheless, I'm a believer and so is Hans, my mechanic.
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quote:
Originally posted by christietz
Only "blue smoke" is right after a start when I gun it in neutral to wake it up...
I'm not sure what you mean by "gun it", but I wouldn't run it at high revs in the first 10 seconds. Give the oil pump a chance to pressurize everything.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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I've had my share of leaks but don't think these cars are any more prone to them then any other. It isn't rocket science--leaks come from holes and cracks, but more likely from seals and gaskets gone bad. Holes and cracks are trouble--but can be fixed. A crack in my cylinder head was welded up by Metric as part of the engine rebuild.
Finding them generally isn't difficult; you need to really clean things up to get rid of existent dirt, grease, oil and gunk, and look after a while. Did that recently on mine and found the oil pan gasket to be bad, as well as a slight drip from the filler plug.
If the leak is elusive you can use dye in the fluid and a UV light. That's how we found a transmission leak.
Of course you can run into the classic problem that I did. "Good news Mr. Salemi, we found the leak, and the part is only $4.95. Bad news Mr. Salemi, is we have to pull the tranmission out to install it..."
Make it a rule to to change any seal and gasket when ever anything is apart!
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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quote:
I'm not sure what you mean by "gun it", but I wouldn't run it at high revs in the first 10 seconds. Give the oil pump a chance to pressurize everything.
Rodd, thanks for that feedback. One of my frustrations is that after a cold start, it takes takes a good one to two minutes before I can back out of my garage. Then, if I don't 'gun it', it will skip and sputter until I'm 200 ft from the house.
Any ideas as to my problem?
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Since this thread is about oil leaks, you should start a thread on "cold start idle" or "cold engine performance" or what ever best describes that problem.
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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this thread has great info about idle problems
http://index.php?topic=160,regulator
Bob Smith (Brisbane,Australia)
RHD,1967 early 250 SL, auto
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I discovered the source of my oil leak this morning: turned out to be the small oil pressure gauge tube, right where it connects to the top of the oil filter housing. It's a 14 mm nut that connects 'garden-hose-style' to the small, fairly hard, plastic tube that goes through the firewall to the oil pressure gauge.
With the engine running, there was a drop of oil coming out every second! That's a small puddle fairly quickly. I tried cutting off the end piece of the plastic hose to reconnect a fresh section to see whether that would cure it, but I could not manage to refit the plastic hose onto the metal fitting, even after having it sit in boiled water for a minute or so - that's how hard that plastic is (or has become).
I will order a complete new hose-with-fittings tomorrow and in the meantime I capped off the opening on the oil filter housing so I can continue driving the car in the meantime. No oil pressure reading of course (looks strange - but then again, I have never in my 9 years of ownership had an oil pressure problem).
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quote:
Originally posted by cees klumper
One possibility with rear axle leaks is that they are actually coming from the front - or at least so a veteran mechanic told me last week: while driving, a leaking engine keeps leaking and the oil that normally falls straight down will travel to the rear of the car (making that oily); when you park it, it drops on the floor there.
Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
Gotta love an answer like this one. The guy who told you this one really wasn't thinking. If your engine was leaking that much oil it would be all over the place and not just on the rear axel.
A small amount around the axel is coming from the axel and not the engine.
As if.......( lol )
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I believe that my oil hose connecting to the oil cooler is leaking. There's two, haven't figured out which one, and haven't found anyone with replacement hoses.
Bob Krejci
68 280SL #001640
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SLS in Germany lists both of these at around EUR 30, so they should be avaiable in the US as well. Although I don't see a reference for the late version upper hose for the 280 SL normally this should be available. If not, you should be able to find a used one that may hold out for many more years.
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Found the leak (and hopefully the new part). Top hose(oil is sitting on top of the battery) and it's leaking at the metal fitting/hose connection. German Auto Parts and AutoAZ have the part(under $30).
quote:
Originally posted by BourbonBob
I believe that my oil hose connecting to the oil cooler is leaking. There's two, haven't figured out which one, and haven't found anyone with replacement hoses.
Bob Krejci
68 280SL #001640
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quote:
Originally posted by A Dalton
Eng oil is also best level when 1/2 way mark at warm engine after 5 min drain time lapse...
This is a little confusing. I have been filling to the top of the line with the engine cold. Am I overfilling?
thanks,