Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: n/a on May 22, 2005, 09:47:28
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Yes I know it is a dealer...
But I have seen the car last time I was on the west coast, it was just repainted and looked ok though I was not totally impressed.
It is a nice car, but for that price I would expect more "originality" in the details.
Heater levers are the cheap non original ones, engine bay looked a little worn out (no original coating for instance...).
I am curious to see how long it will take them to sell the car.
http://www.heritageclassics.com/mercedes/70sil280sl/Page.html
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
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I'll see that ate raise you with anotehnr dealer example...
http://www.paulrussell.com/
(look under "sales")
Ken G
1971 280 SL
Silver/red
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Motoring Investments just sold a very nice red Pagoda that was listed at $65K. http://www.motoringinvestments.com/C31Photo1.htm
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Just before Hatch and Sons was sold they had three 280sl's priced at $69.5K and up.
1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.
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quote:
Originally posted by zanone
Motoring Investments just sold a very nice red Pagoda that was listed at $65K. http://www.motoringinvestments.com/C31Photo1.htm
Yes, I'm the one who purchased it. It was a bit overpirced, but i wanted it NOW. It appraises easily at 50K however, and it just won third prize in the Visalia, CA car show Saturday, in a field of all foreign cars 25 years and older.
Steve Griswold
1970 280SL signal red/bamboo leather, PS, 3.27 final drive gear ratio, AC, Becker Europa stereo,
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Congratulations, that looks like a great car. I wanted it but never got around to making an offer. Let me know if you sell it, I'm in the market for a #1 car.
Steve Griswold
1970 280SL signal red/bamboo leather, PS, 3.27 final drive gear ratio, AC, Becker Europa stereo,
[/quote]
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Steve:
You bought a beautiful car. I saw it when I was in Brian's shop several weeks ago. Congratulations.
Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA
1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0 (wife)
2006 GS430
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quote:
Originally posted by Ed Cave
Steve:
You bought a beautiful car. I saw it when I was in Brian's shop several weeks ago. Congratulations.
Ed Cave
Atlanta, GA
1971 280SL
1973 911S
2004 A4 3.0 (wife)
2006 GS430
It really is a great machine...but now to deal with the disintegrating heater levers. Wish I could get those all acrylic ones...but don't think it's gonna happen.
Steve Griswold
1970 280SL signal red/bamboo leather, PS, 3.27 final drive gear ratio, AC, Becker Europa stereo,
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quote:
Originally posted by zanone
Congratulations, that looks like a great car. I wanted it but never got around to making an offer. Let me know if you sell it, I'm in the market for a #1 car.
Steve Griswold
1970 280SL signal red/bamboo leather, PS, 3.27 final drive gear ratio, AC, Becker Europa stereo,
[/quote]
Still in love with it...but I will remember you if the time ever comes. Looking forward to showing it aside my new SL600 coming end of June...then and now.
Steve Griswold
1970 280SL signal red/bamboo leather, PS, 3.27 final drive gear ratio, AC, Becker Europa stereo,
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Hi Guys,
I meant to post this after returning from Sarasota at Easter, but it got lost in the Brussels shuffle. Anyone who wants to see high-priced (but not ridiculously so) lovely Pagodas should know about this. We stopped by Sarasota's Vintage Motors (google it) on the corner of University and 41 in their new digs. There is always a plethora of beautiful autos to look at, and they were very interested in my Carling when we pulled up. Turns out there is a Swede working with them who does nothing but restore Pagodas. We saw a 66 230SL dark blue/parchment automatic--looked immaculate, even underside. I think he wants $55K for it. He also has a 64 230SL red/black 4-speed with "one family owner since new." He also just took in what he said was a 69 280SL creme/raspberry 4speed that belonged to a local lady who only drove it on Sundays...yadda yadda. (If any of our international members needs a translation of yadda yadda, just ask...) Anyway, it reinforces the upward trend in prices...
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
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For what it's worth, here's a nice site that seems to support escalating values for our cars. It was updated in April of 2005 and says an excellent 280 SL is mid-$30Ks and show quality is $61.5K:
http://www.manheimgold.com/
I generally find that these kinds of books show prices way too low, but I think these are a lot closer to reality than I expected.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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I think we've heard some estimates that very good examples of W113s might double in value over the next 10 years. If true, that would be a compound annual growth rate (CAGR) of 7.2%.
Tom in Boise
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Here is one thing I could not understand: With W113 prices not rising as much as some of the other models, why are the W113 parts the hardest to find and the most expensive?
Louis 70 280sl auto red
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Well, the Sarasota expert (see post below) guessed right on the nose what I had paid for Carling 3 years ago ($15K), and he said it would be almost double that now for a car in the same shape... That seems to exponentially expand Tom's estimated CAGR*. So many cars, so little time :) ...we're building another garage next year.
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
*assuming steady-state growth rate
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Hi France -- I sure hope these cars do better than double in price over the next 10 years (CAGR of 7.2%). I rather think they will. And your experience seems to indicate that as well. If the value of your 280SL has gone from $15K to $30K over a 3-year peiod that would be deliver a compound growth rate of 26%, which would be outstanding.
20 years ago I searched all over the US before buying my 280SL. There were certainly higher priced ones at the time, but I paid $18,500 in 1985. (Before I took delivery I had an offer of $20K for it, which was fun). Over the intervening 20 years I've put at least an additional 3x into it. Obviously a poor financial investment over a period of 2 decades.
Since I don't intend to ever sell it perhaps I shouldn't particularly care what these cars are worth. But when I saw a fairly decent example of a 280SL go for $13,500 at last year's Sun Valley car auction I didn't feel great about it. Worse yet, most of the neighboring high school kids drive more valuable cars...not nearly as nice or as interesting in my opinion, but more expensive.
I'm sure many of us would like to see prices finally increase for the W113. I was encouraged by John Olsen's SL Market Letter (#201...date unknown) where he estimated 230/250/280SLs would have a 5-year potential of 100%, with the 280SL at 20-30% higher. (280SL CAGR of ~18%?) Here's the link to that piece by Olsen: http://www.slmarket.com/pocketbook2.htm
I think it was Michael Salemi (?) who'd added Olsen told him that his 280SL might double in valve over 10 years. It was based on that input that I calculated the CAGR of 7.2%...which I found less than thrilling.
If my initial investment of $18.5K (forgetting all the improvements made over the years) increased at 7.2%/yr that would work out to a value of $74.5K today. I don't think so...but maybe some day, if I live long enough.
IMHO, having a decent investment would make owning these cars even more fun.
BTW, while in Scottsdale next week I will see a '71 280SL which is priced at $79K.
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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Firstly that red Pagoda that Steve (welcome to the club) bought looks like a real beauty. I had a good look at the photos on Brian Peters' site, excellent ! He does really nice work !
Just to add to the original topic, in the UK in the last month there have been a few Pagods at auction, usually rough to average cars, the cheapest of which went for Sterling £15,500 I believe. That makes about $25,000 approximately !
Prices are definitely moving in the right direction !
I reckon I need to invest in my bodywork whilst I can afford it !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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Folks -- One more little piece of pricing trivia:
I just used an inflation calculator ( http://minneapolisfed.org/Research/data/us/calc/index.cfm ) to compute the inflated value of $18.5K in 1985 dollars to current dollars. This came out to $33,578 for 2005. So, perhaps some of our cars have at least kept up with inflation.
Of course it's all up to the market, but personally, I think good examples of these cars are (or will be) intrinsically worth much more. Re the $79K 280SL now at Ranchomerced in Cave Creek, AZ: http://ranchomerced.com/My_Homepage_Files/Page6.html This does not strike me as unreasonable ... and while I'm certainly not saying this is smart I've got more than that into my 280SL.
How much might this car currently sell for in Europe?
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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Tom...
I've seen your car and to be fare you should discribe what you have done ... truley an amazing piece of work.
Dick M
1970 280SL
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In my particular case, the rising prices are actually a double-edged sword. My car is a decent (and much loved) driver but has issues with rust that will keep its value on the lower end of the spectrum. Thus, while the top end of our cars promises to rise exponentially, the lower end I imagine will only rise modestly. Moreover, as I contemplate that "next Pagoda" if such a time should come, I realize I will be looking at a much pricier "upgrade" down the road.
James
63 230SL
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Dick -- Thanks very much. After the car gets put back together, and everything works, I'll take some photos and post them.
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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From the speculative end, I think we as a group have the influence and the power to raise the price of our cars. If we think of ourselves as a union who will not dump the prices of the cars we sell I think prices may be getting up to E-type level over the years.
Another thing we could do was to publish more articles and advertise the car a little more. Write in car magazines like "Classic and sportscar" and " Classic cars".
I think our cars are undervalued and so does a lot of other people. Part of it may stem from the fact that they are so solid build and easy to drive plus the fact that you can easily get all parts. This in my opinion takes away some of the mystery away plus it has the consequence that a high frequency of the manufactured pagodas are still on the road today. If you take the example of the E-type it has all the oposite "qualities": lousy quality, "horrible" to drive and parts can be tricky to get.
I mean we are not in this to earn money, but to have fun. But a little return will not harm anyone and with the qualities of our cars it should be an easy task to lift prices globally.
Give me your thoughts.
Ulrik
'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023
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Hi Guys,
As an outsider to Europe, I see big cultural/economic trouble coming. In bad times Europeans like to revert to the safe icons of their more carefree age--the optimistic post-war boom and the Pagoda. Conversely, the US is in good times. In good times Americans like to revert to older good-feeling times--that is Pagoda times. For that reason I think that all the iconic sexy well-designed 60s cars will gain in value in both areas. The Pagoda is still accessible to the average buyer, which makes it attractive to "normal" people (well, I know none of us is normal). I have at least two standing offers to buy Carling from neighbors who love her because she brings great memories.
While I agree with Ulrik in his assessment of the Pagoda's driving and styling, I must take exception to his comments about my E-type! Horrible to drive? I think not! It's just a beast of an engine in a tin can. Well, there's something for everyone.
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
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Ulrik - you asked for it - my expectation is prices will continue to rise on the average for maybe about 10 years. Then the generation that is motivated by childhood memories (like myself, I am 45) will be less of a force in the market, concerns about the future of conventional-powered (= gasoline fueled) vehicles will mount, and environmental (emissions) constraints will start to become more of a limiting factor on values of older cars. Also, my estimation is that the extent of price increases will not be material (= significant) to most Pagoda owners' wallets / total investment in their SL. Perhaps more relevant to figuring your total cost of ownership will be whether you bought your car for a reasonable sum to begin with, and whether you have had to put in a lot or a little money since then.
Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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Hello all, Trice , Ulrik and Cees,
let me jump back in on some of your comments...Also because my other car is a E-Type!!!
Cees, I kind of disagree on the memories part... I am 33, (the exact same age of my car) so the memory part doesn't do it for me. I bought the Pagoda because I couldn't afford the Talbot Lago Teardrop by Figoni & Falaschi :)
The Pagoda was my first choice for my first antique car due to:
1) style and body elegance;
2) style and polyvalence (beautiful convertible but also I think the most beautiful hard top); How many cars do you know look as great top down than hardtop on?
3) availability of parts;
4) performances as a touring car (not a sports car) and reliability;
5) price and affordability.
Overal, Cees, you might be part of the generation who is buying memories, I am part of a newer generation for whom the Pagoda is truly an antique. My father was telling me about his memories when I took him for a tour last time he came to visit me to the US...Well, I will have "memories car" when I buy a Peugeot 205 turbo, an Alpine A310, a Venturi, a Golf GTI, a Maserati biturbo or a 911 Carrera 3.2... I believe for my generation the Pagoda has fallen into a category including cars like a Ferrari 250 GTE, Maserati 3500GT, 280 SE, Facel vega HK500, E-Type, MGA and MGB... basically all kinds touring cars from 50's to 60's.
So, bottom line is that, if there is no law preventig from driving antique cars, there is hope for a new generation of buyers!!
Now, Ulrik, it is difficult to compare the sl with the E-Type... the E-Type is a true sports car, the Pagoda is not.
since reliability is an issue (thank you Lucas!) on the E-Type, it makes it slightly less affordable and more of an icon. It is clearly, in cars, THE icon of the 60's (Have you seen the exhibit at the SF MoMA on the 60's where the E-Type was featured?) which will grant it a special appeal, for the style alone (for the reliability, as I said, it is not a german car!!).
I certainly don't think it is a horrible car to drive, on the contrary, but the Pagoda is very comfortable car for a daily driver, the Jaguar, with 100 hp more, is more of a "beast".
At the end, Classic cars IS an investement where the return is....ENDLESS HOURS OF WONDERFUL DRIVING EXPERIENCE...(well, endless with the SL and endless-interupted every othe mile- with the Jaguar..!!)
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
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Hey Fabrice, thanks for the perspective. I do hope you are an exponent of a group of enthusiasts who look to the style and class of the Pagoda by itself, so not driven by ´memories´ like some of us. I guess it would be interesting to find out what the demographics of this group are, agewise but also otherwise (occupation, location etc). Maybe we can start a poll on this somehow.
Anyway back to the topic of this thread. Who thinks prices will rise much more than inflation for, say, the next 5 years?
Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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Cees, it just reminds me of of one of my best friends who is about the same age as you and who likes to speak about people "our" age...at which point I can't help but reply to him each time..." you mean YOUR age?" hehehehe. sorry for the joke.. :D
As for the prices of Pagoda, I just think the gap between the average and the very good ones will widen significantly as people look for perfect examples which shouldn't require too much work. for the rest, global economy will do!
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
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Oh, one more thing, Cees...It is late for you in amsterdam...Go to bed!!
Fabrice
Silver 1971 280 SL
New York City
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On the subject of age and memories, as today is my 52nd birthday, let me offer my view of the value/memories debate. I remember the first time I saw a Rembrandt painting for the first time. I was probably 12 and it was as if the light from the painting went on in my head ... and my heart. It was the Rembrandt's mastery of the art of light that opened my eyes to the beauty of classic paintings.
I was standing on a corner in early 1968, the first time I saw a Pagoda in person. The same light went on in my heart and every time thereafter that I saw one, I remarked, "There's my car." Nearly 35 years later I finally bought one.
So, for me or for potential buyers, is the value of the car the memories or the mastery of the art?
I'd say my investment is safe either way.
Ray
'68 280SL 4-spd Coupe
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Hi Guys,
I have no particular memory of the Pagoda as a youngster (although it would have been around when I was in highschool). I vividly remember the e-Type my best friend got for her 16th birthday, though! She and I had that and a 56 porthole T'bird to roar around in. Oh, misspent youth!
Not until three years ago did I buy a Pagoda as my daily driver, a present to myself on my 50th birthday. I bought it solely for the style and the art of light, plus all the practical plusses Frabrice outlined. How many other classics are so reasonably priced and easy keepers that reward you with reliable driving? By the way, our e-Type runs perfectly and its only downtime is to add new goodies. She is in the shop now and will get new spinners after her surgery. When she goes flat out, it's difficult for anyone to catch her--pure adreneline!
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
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Well great to see the debate going on. Anyway here are my comments:
I was trying to raise the debate on the value of the pagodas which in my and other's (classic car journalists) opinion is seriously undervalued. In that respect I was comparing it to the E-type which is very highly priced car. Furthermore, it is comparable in the sense that it is from the same period, is ALSO a sportscar (race the E-type against the pagoda on a twisting road and the E-type would be left in the dust, whereas flat out the pagodas would be left) and is also a style icon albeit a different one. Well nevertheless, the E-type is wonderfull, and is wonderfull to drive, but with the series I famous bad brakes and a gearshift so close you wouldn't know if you are in reverse or first gear (can be a crucial mistake if you think of it), it has it's element of "horrible to drive". These are some of features of the series I, which on top is the most valuable of the E-types. Now that's the end of the E-type vs Pagoda discussion (at least for my part).
I'm also 33 and have the pagoda for the exact same reasons as Fabrice, but I think Cees is touching on an important point when he's pointing out that oil ressources may be limited on the very long run (+20 years), and that this may limit the value of classic cars.
I know that the vast majority of the investment is driving and fixing-up-the-car pleasure, I'm all in for that, but it is a given and sure thing which we don't even have to discuss, since it's so obvious.
What my intention was, in the first post I wrote in this thread, was to spark the debate on what we as a group could do to increase the appreciation of our cars (since they are undervalued as I claim). But maybe also to close in what makes a classic car valued (moneywise). Hence the E-type analogy.
All the best
Ulrik
'67 250 SL Papyrus White 113043-10-000023
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It's me again. Funny Cees mentioned the energy concern at this time. For a while we've been sitting around debating which of our old cars we really should sell in the future, given the punishing tax on petrol in Europe--almost $6/gallon in Germany (!) Also we can't deny the looming menace of those political types who would like to get everyone onto public transport. Nor can the jealousy factor be ignored--the number of withering looks I've had when stepping out of the 500SL or XJS defy desription. (Let alone the GT40!) Will all these pressures conspire to devalue all old cars? Well, maybe not the hugely iconic performance machines like Ferraris, etc. And maybe not the Pagoda, for a different reason.
Seems to me that we aren't looking for high performance here. All most of us want is a nice drive in a (non-sports) car. Perhaps we can put our hopes in the development of alternative energy sources so our Pagodas can be converted and continue running. I can imagine a battery-powered Pagoda sooner than an electric GT40...
The US is a different story; our love affair with the internal combustion engine will never die, and if it gets to be tough going in Europe, we're simply shipping the surviving stable to Sarasota. So, Cees, I agree that Europe eventually may see a fall in prices, but not the US. And I agree also that the higher end will see more upside. Feel free to comment on this theory. While Ulrik and others might wish to build up the profile of our car, that could be a two-edged sword. I would hate the see this car priced out of the everyday market, and I don't want to worry about her every time I park her at the supermarket! Let's just keep her our little secret, hmmm?
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
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My kids and their friends (early 20s) certainly dig the 280SL. Please consider this as one vote for the idea that the W113 remains seriously undervalued. I tend to think the "coolness factor" of an excellent W113 can be beyond that of a new Mercedes. Having both (a 34-year old 280SL and a 1-year old CLK500 cabriolet), and driving my friend's new AMG SL65 on occassion, I feel modestly qualified to offer up that comment for consideration.
BTW, were the folks at Don Rasmussen (Portland), Lyle Pearson (Boise), and Fletcher Jones (Newport Beach and Las Vegas) Mercedes-Benz dealerships universally incorrect when I heard them all, over the years, refer to the W113 as a "sports car"? Should I have straightened them out by informing them that the 280SL was indeed never a sports car?
I'm currently in Scottsdale, and am looking forward to seeing that '71 280SL listed for $79K later this week. (link posted below).
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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my opinion is :
the price of a clasic car depends mostly on 2 things
how well it raced and how cool you look on the road
1- this car did not race well
2- they are way more cool loking cars on the road from that era
the e type was a real sport car
please don't get me wrong I love my car but it does not stand out like the more valuble old cars on the road
I also have a 62 beetle and that car stands out way way more than my 280sl . I get waves and smiles from anyone the age of 2 to 99 , but the value of the beetle is an exception to my rule they made 20 milion of them >
1971 280sl
1962 VW
1954 Allstate vespa
1958 gs150 vespa
1962 gs160 vespa
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It seems some folks are under-estimating the cornering prowess of the E-Type. Around 1971 Road and Track did a comparison test of a Corvette, Porsche 911T, 280SL and E-Type. The E-Type did quite well in the cornering department. I'd take an E-type over my Pagoda any day - a nice '67 covered headlight coupe will fit nicely. I obviously like my SL, but the lack of power (the thing is no faster than my 2.0 Golf) and the pitch/dive/roll motions of the body really date the car. The E-Type comes closer to modern chassis dynamics.
As for values, folks have been predicting a huge rise in Pagoda values for the last 25 years. Indexed against inflation, they have probably lost some value (in the late eighties they could bring over $50K USD). I think they will do OK, but the more powerful stuff will always beat them out. Just look at the values of muscle cars here in the US. My old 289 HiPo Comet (terrible car to be honest) could bring more than my SL - weird.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
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We recently bought a 1969 Porsche 911S to add to our stable, and the seller, a Porsche enthusiast from Canada, was quite impressed with the diversity of our small collection. Basically, we have a quirky, very limited production car that is barely suitable for street use (saab sonett), we have a wonderful, easy to drive, grand touring car (230sl) that cruises effortlessly at any speed, and now we have a high-strung ultimate sports car, actually it really is a race car that is street legal. 1969 was the last year for the well-liked 2.0 liter, and the first year for the long wheelbase, known for making the handling of these cars much easier to control.
No plans to sell any of these cars in the foreseeable future, but I'm pretty confident that each are climbing in value.
The one thing we can all be sure, is that none of our cars will depreciate in a similar fashion to any modern car.
photos at www.eigs.net
(http://www.eigs.net/Porsche%20911S/images/69S%20side.jpg)
-Lewis
'66 230 sl 113042-10-016238
'67 Saab Sonett II #43 of 258
'69 Porsche 911S
'00 Saab 9-3 viggen conv
'02 Saab 9-5 aero
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Lewis -- Nice looking 911S. Having owned one I know what you mean about its excellent performance. Although horsepower, as I recall, was not that much more than a 280SL.
BTW, based on your photos (which are very nice) it appears Fran really knows how to increase value!
Vince -- I share your feeling about the W113's lack of power compared to today's standards. That's why I'm still toying with the idea of having the existing mechanical FI carefully removed, every single part carefully stored away ... and then having a new fuel delivery system and supercharger bolted onto the new Metric engine. I wonder how the old 280SL might then compare to a new CLK500 in terms of oomph?
I sure don't think it would improve the car's monetary value, but since I intend to keep it for at least another 20 years, who cares?
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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So, Tom, maybe then you'll have a sports car ;)
Trice
1968 280SL US, signal red/bl leather, auto, kinder
Sarasota FL; Alsace France
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I'm in Phoenix for the week. Just got back from a really fun visit with Mark Passarelli at his Rancho Merced place in Cave Creek. Followed the gravel road for a few miles, and there I was. Also had the opportunity to briefly meet his team...Great folks all. It was a blast, and Mark was a terrific host...thanks Mark! :D
I'd hoped to see his '71 280SL, which was listed for $79K...but I was a little late as he'd just sold it. Had the chance to look over another gorgeous 280SL that he's almost finished with. Also saw numerous other W113s in various states of condition/restoration as well as enough 300SLs that I lost count. I took photos, and Mark gave permission for me to post them. If anyone is interested I can do that next week.
Also, earlier in the day I stumbled across Barett-Jackson's showroom while driving around Scottsdale. Didn't even know they had a showroom; but was driving by, so I pulled in. There was a sort-of-okay looking '58 Corvette (I owned one of those too, but many years ago). The paint was 2nd-rate, and I thought the car was unremarable...yet the price was $70K [:0]. I know this has little or nothing to do with W113's, but as a gen. point of interest here's the link for that car: http://www.barrett-jackson.com/selectservices/cardetail_list.asp?id=180393
Mark offered up an opinion that the finest W113 will hit $100K within a couple of years here in the U.S.
France -- The local M-B dealer had an invitation-only pre-opening event last week for Boise's new Porsche dealership (like others, he owns several). When I took a lovely new 911 out for a spin I tried telling him it wasn't a true sports car ... because as we all know, real sports cars don't have power windows. He got got my (very) little (and very lame) joke, but for some reason didn't quite buy it. :)
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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Take a look at this $95,000.00 280sl at www.motoringinvestments.com
1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.
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Hauser -- Lovely, and IMHO very nice to see. Slight correction though; the number for this one is $99.5K ... a mere 500 bucks away from 6-figures. http://www.motoringinvestments.com/C81Photo.htm
Tom in Boise
'71 280SL 4-spd, signal red w/lt. tan interior, restored/enhanced
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My wife, always looking for an "out" with our car, would find this price to be pretty nice! :D Aside from the [incorrect] battery[:0], cable ties :? and some plating issues :evil: in the engine compartment this car looks like it would provide its new owner, whoever that might be, with a whole lot of fun, and quite a few stares as this is, to us at least, "eye candy par excellence"
Of particular note is the restored interior with child seat! Beautiful. I love my Signal Red and black, but would find this other color combination just as easy to live with!
Great exterior, but please tell me it doesn't have to drive on a gravel road to leave its place!
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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Incorrect battery? Now, Michael. Be nice. This is a Hjeltness restoration. Surely that must account for something.
If you use the word "molested," I will personally start to critique your car![:p]
Seriously though, if you admire the kinder seat so much, why not add one to your car? That would be easy.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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quote:
Originally posted by Douglas
Incorrect battery? Now, Michael. Be nice. This is a Hjeltness restoration. Surely that must account for something.
If you use the word "molested," I will personally start to critique your car![:p]
Seriously though, if you admire the kinder seat so much, why not add one to your car? That would be easy.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
Hjeltness, Schmeltness. If they aren't going to put an MB battery in, for goodness sakes put in a Optima Gel battery. For $100,000 I'd put in any battery they want--with gold plated posts! But come on, don't the tie wraps make you cringe? Five cent tie wraps from Home Depot don't belong on a car like this and you know it! ;)
As for the kinder seat on my car, it would be for effect only--w/o a seatbelt (adding a seatbelt to a kinder seat would be just too weird--a hack design of untested capability, and probably ineffective)it just isn't safe. I actually use the back well for storage--so I'll just sit back and admire those cars that have them.
As for critiqueing, bring it on! Really--I've made a LOT of changes (some subtle, some not so) between the first tech session, Starfest and today--and the changes I made were based upon constructive criticism delivered by people like you, Joe, Pete Lesler, Ted Gottfried, Dr. Benz, and others. I didn't make any changes at random, they were all done to effect a higher level of correctness.
I don't think, however that I'll be:
1) removing the Time Valve SS system in favor of a factory welded unit (exhaust)...
2) removing the aftermarket soft top and either getting a factory one or stitching in a factory rear window...
...anytime soon.
N.B. I don't use the M-word, but would have to offer that my car is about as M as it gets...but it looks OK. Some value originality, some newness. I've been forced to appreciate the latter as the former original parts on my car were, in a word, "all used up".
Michael Salemi
1969 280SL
Signal Red w/Black Leather
Restored
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3 things:
1. The owner of the blue car should probably route the ignition wires under the injection lines if he wants it to look tidier. Then he can do away with the tie wraps. (Also, it should probably have a black plastic cover over the distributor.)
2. It's a rare owner who actually welcomes and learns from criticism. Many people just want to be told their show car is beyond reproach, so you deserve credit for that, Michael. Your car is among the best and just keeps getting better.
3. Is that a W 113 Pagoda SL Group sticker I detect on the top left corner of the windshield of the Hjeltness car?
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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That blue car is a very unusual colour, I havent seen it before and the light interior is gorgeous !
I think the price is a little OTT but I'll be glad if it gets up there as it bodes well for the future of all our 113's !
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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Excuse my ignorance - what is a "Hjeltness" restoration?
Joe
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They're one of the top restoration shops for Gullwings in the US (and possibly in the world):
http://www.sdvsa.org/HjeltnessRestorationIncTour.htm
There are a lot of cars out there with shiny paint and very little integrity underneath. I think it's safe to say that if Hjeltness worked on the restoration, it was done right.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220