Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: TJMart on July 29, 2021, 16:00:14
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It is time for my every 2 year brake fluid bleeding and I decided to replace my ugly reservoir while I am at it. I ordered the ATE reservoir that is supplied by many sellers including the Classic Center. What I was not aware of is that when it is installed, it is not straight but about 20 degrees off. It also does not look like my original which looks like 2 separate tanks and the ATE one has the two reservoirs but is made to look like one complete tank.
I found a link that has several photos etc. of various engine bays. https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=27773.msg199803#msg199803 (https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=27773.msg199803#msg199803) that show several brake reservoirs including the ATE one. (See MikeK post). It also has reservoirs that also look more "correct" to my original. (See mbzse, mrfatboy and Pawell66 posts).
Can anyone tell me where to get the one that looks more "correct"??
Thanks in advance!
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Many of the usual places have them.
Here is the Authentic Classics link.
https://www.authenticclassics.com/230SL-250SL-280SL-Convertible-113-Chassis-s/1.htm?searching=Y&sort=13&cat=1&search=Brake%20Brake%20Fluid%20Reservoir&show=32&page=1
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Thanks for your reply. The one that Authentic Classics sells isn't quite like the image you posted in the link I referred to. I have attached your image from your post. Yours looks more correct than the Authentic Classics one. Yours looks almost the same as my original one. The 2 tanks are more defined and the Authentic Classics one looks more combined from the top view. Did you get yours from Authentic Classics?
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It might be just the picture 🤷♂️
I did buy mine at Vintage Euro Parts.
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Had to take a look, it appears the one currently shown on Authentic Classics is different.
https://www.authenticclassics.com/Brake-Fluid-Reservoir-Complete-Late-250SL-280SL-p/auth-006456.htm
The link takes you to the detailed photos. If you look at the one with the red background, it is more angular, if you look at the one on the blue background, the underside, it is smoother and more rounded.
Would be worth a call to Authentic Classics
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What I was not aware of is that when it is installed, it is not straight but about 20 degrees off.
Welcome to ATE's 20 degree club.
Somewhere along the line, this happened. Mine was replaced in the initial restoration 20 years ago with an ATE at the 20 degree angle. "That's the way it is" I was told.
Like the alchemists of the Middle Ages, who never found a way to turn lead into gold, nobody has found a way to remove the dirty dark discoloration or yellowing of an original tank. If you have a lot of useless time on your hand, you can search for all kinds of methods people have tried at and failed...
I bought one from VEP a couple of years ago, and sometime later this year (when I won't die of heat stroke) my plan is to change the brake lines, the brake pads, the master cylinder and the reservoir. I have all the parts and fluid...and a SnapON brake bleeding kit.
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I am working on discoloration during this summer. There is a story of a successful whitening of a reservoir. We will see.
On the Authentic Classic one - there was a very nice one there, I bought it a couple of years ago (picture), I am not sure if it is the same one we see in the links - this one seems more "square".
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Here is the VEP part
https://vintageeuroparts.com/index.php/master-cylinder-brake-fluid-reservoir-container-for-ate-mercedes-w113-w111-w108.html
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Nice, but no clutch nipple...
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Hmmm. Pawel, it looks like you have an extra nipple 🤣🤣🤣🤣
As far as I know pagodas didn’t have a nipple on the brake reservoir. Why would they?
I didn’t notice it before but it looks like AC is selling a a close reproduction that would work for the pagoda as well as several later MB models that might require the nipple.
VEP sells a reproduction that is closer to the original.
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That would make me unique :), smells like one of the Bond movies...
I think it has been discussed here, but I do not recall where...
Well, when you study the engine bay pictures of some of the preserved cars, particularly the late ones, you see the nipple in a lot of them. I do not know if the nipple should be there in cars form certain period of production - again, could have been Mercedes were installing what came from Ate or perhaps it was structured and organized ordering and fitting of certain type of reservoirs. In any case, for 280SL from 1970 - I think chances are nipple was there. I think choice nipple/no nipple may be a conscious decision of what you want to fit based e.g. on pictures of the engine bay. That is why I have a nipple. It took nme quite some time to find it...
Maybe there is more science or systematics behind it.
The nipple is for clutch fluid in cars where there was no separate clutch fluid reservoir, I think.
BTW: Roger Waters' car has it! :)
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I think it’s time for Jonny B to pull out his magical book of pagoda production changes 🤣. It looks like some time in 1970 ATE added a nipple. 🤷♂️
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The brake reservoir in my 1970 280 SL (September of 1969 build) has the nipple on the left side. I have a couple of spares acquired along the way and they have the nipple in the same place.
I looked in the parts books I have and the only change that is noted is for the 250 SL at VIN ending 2979, when all the DOT changes went into effect in md-1967,
There is no footnote notice in the parts book beyond that.
Then I checked the list of changes for the 280 SL from the Engelen book (detailed list is in Pagoda World 25) - Per Engelen the reservoir was changed at VIN ending in 10665 (10 Jun 1969) for right-hand drive cars. For left-hand drive cars, the reservoir was changed at VIN ending in 11027. There was no mention of what the change was.
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Thanks everyone for all your replies. That's what makes this group such a great value.
It appears to me that everyone that sells the non ATE version has their own different version with nipples and without nipples etc. I decided that I would go with the ATE since it is supplied by Mercedes and I've tried to be consistent with "original" parts. Other vendors were up close to 60% less than the Classic Center's price. The 20 degrees does bother me but I'm sure several owners belong to the "20 degree club". ;).
Just FYI my car built September of 1969 had the nipple on the right side and I believe it is the original..... so maybe the change that Jonny B describes moved the nipple from the left to the right?
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With the help of neelyrc it looks like our own pagoda notes has the possible answer.
Vin 6619 nov 68 was the change date when they made the brake booster change. Maybe also the reservoir at the same time.
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Possibly. I think 49er's second car was 68 and it does not have the nipple, but it might have been earlier than November car, I do not remember...
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I believe 49ner is June or July 68. Mine is aug 68, 66andblue is oct 68. No nipples.
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Thank you, seems to be holding...
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I believe 49ner is June or July 68. Mine is aug 68, 66andblue is oct 68. No nipples.
I would like to provide another data point with my January 1969 build but unfortunately I am 5000 miles from my car until late November. Perhaps a few others could chime in now!
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I am working on discoloration during this summer. There is a story of a successful whitening of a reservoir. We will see.
On the Authentic Classic one - there was a very nice one there, I bought it a couple of years ago (picture), I am not sure if it is the same one we see in the links - this one seems more "square".
A question and a comment:
What is that round thing besides your battery?
Looks like you have the top retainer cap for your front shock on upside down.
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I have a fairly early 280SL, 0870. Although not the original owner, I’ve had the car since 1994 and I believe the brake fluid reserve is original.
Here is a picture to add to the data points.
Marc
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From my late 280SL (2/19/71)
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The third nipple theory seems to be working. It grew Nov 69 with the reservoir change.