Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: norton on April 25, 2005, 18:36:24
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4545804961&category=6338
Mike Halleck
Chesterfield Mi
71 280SL
68 250SL (parts car)
94 E320 Coupe
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Looks like this car was originally sold in Italy. My previous 250sl ZF5 also came from Italy. I wonder how many of the original ZF5 speeds went to Italy?
1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.
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Pretty car. I haven't seen it in the flesh, but I know it's been at some of the local shows. One of my friends who's a diehard 113 enthusiast thought it was very pretty in the flesh. There are definitely several areas where the car could stand improvement, but it appears to be nice.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Mine came from Italy so I think most of them started there.
Dan Caron's
SL Barn
benzbarn@ebtech.net
slbarn.mbz.org
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I know of another 5-spd 250 SL Coupe from Italy that is now silver, but started its life that very same color.
BTW, this appears to be similar in color to Ed Cave's new 911 S.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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I believe that in addition to the Italy bound cars MB used a different rear end ratio.
1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.
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My 67 230SL ZF 5 Speed was purchased by a Doctor living in Rovigo, Italy in 1967. I purchased it in 1976 in Longare(VI)while stationed in Vicenza. Hvae all the original Italian registration and tax forms as well. Has been back and forth to Europe twice and was serviced by MB's Torpedo garage in Kaiserslautern.
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Some interesting oddities here. The tach & speedo cables are black, whereas most of the early originals are gold, the firewall insulation is three piece, the brake fluid reservoir has the later all black cap instead of the blue center cap, it has the red coil, there is not a trace of a decal on the engine or coolant reservoir - odd for the low miles, the carpet is not original (note what looks like cloth binding on the rear shelf carpet) - odd for a car in storage (the interior looks to be the 116 Caviar Tex like mine and I would assume it came originally with the black square weave carpet - Caviar looks really odd to my eyes with the beige carpet), and the seller claims it has the original SS exhaust. It will be interesting to see if it sells and at what price.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex
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I like how it says "drives like a Mercedes with 11K." Guess that's pretty hard to argue with.
There are lots of things that aren't correct on this car, but the only thing that makes me stop and wonder is the rear of the car -- the beltline trim is mounted incorrectly behind the rear wheels, it's missing the horizontal chrome trim under the rear license plate, and there is no image of the trunk floor.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Douglas, what horizontal chrome under the license plate are you referring to? Do you have a photo?
Thanks,
Joe
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I'm talking about the chrome piece of trim between the rear bumpers found on European Pagodas. Visually, it continues the horizontal line made by the left and right bumper halves. It's totally frivolous and serves no function aside from looking pretty, but it does that nicely!
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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In a way, it does serve a purpose. It kind of holds the license plate and frame off the paint, no? Mine is actually a bit of a matte aluminum, not a shiny chrome.
James
63 230SL
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Another thing that might be missing (not sure if they were always mandatory) are the little round orange indicator lights that go on the front fenders (where many US cars have the rectangular ones). Rodd's and Dan's have these round lights, but this car doesn't.
Cees ("Case") Klumper in Amsterdam
'69 white 280 SL automatic
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You could write an entire article on rear license plate treatment alone. There are so many different approaches on how to mount the darn things back there and, as far as I can tell, many of these are factory or at least period. Some people have some kind of bracket, some have two holes with varying degrees of finish, some have no holes..... Plus license plates themselves came in all shapes and sizes depending on the country in question. I know the US plate obscures the chrome trim on a Euro-spec car back there, so it doesn't look like it belongs. It wrecks the horizontal line of that trim and hides the chrome. (Although I suppose one of those tiny black Delaware tags would work nicely.)
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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James,
That trim under the licence plate is polished aluminum, not chrome.
A little elbow grease could bring the shine back.
Douglas is right, of course. When you are following a Pagoda with one fitted, the filler makes it look like a complete one piece bumper from a distance.
naj
65 230SL
68 280SL
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If you look closely, you can see the horizontal trim in this link:
http://www.mbsl.de/prospekt_280SL_1267/rueckseite.jpg
Thanks for clarifying that it's aluminum, Naj. Didn't know that.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Originally posted by Douglas
If you look closely, you can see the horizontal trim in this link:
http://www.mbsl.de/prospekt_280SL_1267/rueckseite.jpg
Thanks for clarifying that it's aluminum, Naj. Didn't know that.
I have an extra , if anyone is looking for one..
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Last June at the mercedes headquarters car show in Montvale, a 250sl 5 speed showed up late that was the same color. Im guessing this is the same car.. The car looked kind of worn and "patched" up. The owner I was told bought and sold cars. The unique thing was the 5 speed and the color. It attracted a lot of attention. I could be wrong and this may be a different car but how many copper 5 speeds in northern N J do you see.
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That's definitely the same car, Larry.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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Cees,
You picked up on the same thing I did. The directional repeaters that are common to almost all cars registered in Italy are missing. My own ZF5-Speed has these. I believe they are required by the Italian Motor Vehicle statutes, so they most likely were removed and covered or the car has had the fenders replaced. Question if they are covered is with what. I have had mine off while doing my own resto and the hole they leave is not insignificant.
George Des
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The data card on my Euro 250SL lists the option #62 which is to delete the aluminum trim under the license plate. This car might have the same option, or maybe it was just deleted by a previous owner.
Tom
1967 250SL
Los Angeles
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Cees, as for the round markers my former 250 did not have them. It is possible that the car made it here before they were mandatory. Don't know for sure.
There is another car in our group (230 ZF) with a different marker than the US and Italian version. I believe it is sort of a rectangular flush with fender type.
1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.
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Here's another pic.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) 230RrBmpr.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/naj/20054276166_230RrBmpr.JPG)
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65 230SL
68 280SL
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Auction ended with someone exercising the 'Buy it Now' option for $37K.
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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That was a bold move, hope he got a look at the car, before he pushed the "But it Now" button[:p]
Mike Halleck
Chesterfield Mi
71 280SL
68 250SL (parts car)
94 E320 Coupe
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quote:
Originally posted by hauser
Looks like this car was originally sold in Italy. My previous 250sl ZF5 also came from Italy. I wonder how many of the original ZF5 speeds went to Italy?
Like Cees says, it's missing the Italian front fender turn signals.
quote:
Originally posted by Douglas
I'm talking about the chrome piece of trim between the rear bumpers found on European Pagodas. Visually, it continues the horizontal line made by the left and right bumper halves. It's totally frivolous and serves no function aside from looking pretty, but it does that nicely!
This was not on my car either. I have photos of classic period Italian plates and they were almost square, very different than the wide & skinny German or English plates. My car had a square black metal plate still there, which was used to mount the plastic plate. Yes, I have been told they were plastic!
Rodd
Powell, Ohio, USA
1966 230SL, Euro, Auto, Leather, both tops
1994 E420
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As for the "plastic plates" these were also used in Potugal before the EEC.
1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.
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quote:
Originally posted by naj
Here's another pic.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) 230RrBmpr.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/naj/20054276166_230RrBmpr.JPG)
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Is this the same car? It has chrome trim on the rear fender lip, but the one on ebay didn't.
quote:
Originally posted by Douglas
the beltline trim is mounted incorrectly behind the rear wheels
Incorrect how? I have to admit it looks normal to me.
Chris
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The trim behind the rear wheels is mounted incorrectly for sure. It's too high and mounted at the wrong angle. A very common mistake.
This is not the car Naj posted. If I'm not mistaken, the one in Naj's posting is from the Classic Center in Germany and is a different shade of gold. I believe that's the restored model they want a gazillion dollars for, correct?
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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The car Naj posted is indeed at the Classic Center. As for it being restored I remember someone posting pics of this car either here or on the other site (Dorian). The car wasn't very impressive once you took a look at the underside. I don't know if it's gone through a restoration since then.
1969 280sl 5 spd
Gainesville, Fl.
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Hello Guys/Ladies,
The picture I posted is was a 230 at the MB Museum in Stuttgart (Pic taken 04/2002). It didn't seem restored, just cleaned and parked at the Museum.
It has lot of non 230 items such as black plastic rear view mirror etc.
Douglas,
Do you have any measurements etc for mounting the rear trim behind the wheels. Let me know before I do something silly and drill my new rear fenders in the wrong place!!
I already done that with the passenger mirror :(
naj
65 230SL
68 280SL
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quote:
The data card on my Euro 250SL lists the option #62 which is to delete the aluminum trim under the license plate. This car might have the same option, or maybe it was just deleted by a previous owner.
So if the box with [62] has a "-" in it does that mean it originally HAD this trim or had it deleted ??
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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Naj: I'm going to take measurement of the rear trim placement and post them. My current SL is far from perfect, but I believe mine are placed correctly.
Also, according to our database, 621 is the code for "Export license plate (Elimination of license plate moulding)"
Douglas Kim
New York, NY
280 SL #016220
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That is a very nice 250SL 5 speed on Ebay. Even the tires are old stock continis with the rub strip. Looks like an early 250 European version. Later 250SL hade alot od 280SL interior up grades, but I wonder how nice in person this car really is at $37000.00 that is for a very clean car above average.
Bob Geco
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quote:
Originally posted by Ben
quote:
Tom wrote: The data card on my Euro 250SL lists the option #62../..
So if the box with [62] has a "-" in it does that mean it originally HAD this trim or had it deleted ?? Ben in Ireland
Nice info about SA (SonderAusstattung, special codes) can be found on site http://www.bekkoame.ne.jp/~mtor/mbcodedsc.html
(Note: the meaning of the SA's varies over time - they are not constant!)
Use this list together with John Green's
http://www.190slgroup.com/tech/Datacard.htm
as well as Alex' Veterans site
http://www.mercedes-veterans.com/tech/dealers.htm
/Hans in Stockholm
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When I was at the Classic Center near Stuttgart in May of last year, they had these two W113's:
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) CC280SL.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/gugel/200542914521_CC280SL.JPG)
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Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) CC230SL.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/gugel/2005429145317_CC230SL.JPG)
77.44 KB
They claimed the (Euro) 280SL had been built from all new parts and they wanted a fantastic price for it.
Chris Earnest
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Hi Chris. Is the White 230SL trimmed in Blue or Black? (oh I'll blame it on the monitor not my eyes...)
James
63 230SL
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quote:
Originally posted by J. Huber
Is the White 230SL trimmed in Blue or Black?
Black. Here's another photo:
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) CC230SLrear.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/gugel/200542916419_CC230SLrear.JPG)
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Note that the taillight lenses aren't all red.
Chris
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Thanks Chris. I thought so. Mine is White/Blue so I was curious. Also, I have rarely seen that combo. Most Whites with Black interior I've seen have white hardtop and wheels. Anyone out there have the black hardtop?
James
63 230SL
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White and black is a right snappy combo :D ... if I sez so myself.
Download Attachment: (http://images/icon_paperclip.gif) Poster4-small.JPG (http://www.sl113.org/forums/uploaded/george%20davis/200542917278_Poster4-small.JPG)
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George Davis
'69 280 SL Euro manual
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Shows how much I pay attention! :oops: Can I blame it on the bundt cakes? or the Los Gatos Brewery?
James
63 230SL
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Chris -- I'm curious about your comment on the price of the 280SL:
"They claimed the (Euro) 280SL had been built from all new parts and they wanted a fantastic price for it."
Do you remember what that price was?
George -- I agree. Your white & black looks terrific.
Tom in Boise
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quote:
Originally posted by TR
"the (Euro) 280SL had been built from all new parts and they wanted a fantastic price for it."
Do you remember what that price was?
As I remember, it was 230,000 Euros, which is $296,000 today.
Chris
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Chris -- Hmmm... A 280SL for ~$300K... I like it!
Not that I intend to buy or sell, but nice to know.
Thanks!
Tom in Boise
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quote:
Originally posted by Douglas
I'm going to take measurement of the rear trim placement and post them. My current SL is far from perfect, but I believe mine are placed correctly.
Douglas,
Did you ever get a chance to perform this measurement?
Chris
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Per the 250SL in a time capsule on e-bay. I have seen an orginal unrestored car a fashion Island for the passed 5 years. The gentelmen who owns the car is from New Mexico and their remains the orginal fire wall pad and engineering tags on the expansion tank and other places. The car is in need of paint but all orginal and that is why he is allowed to show the car for the passed years .
The gold 250SL on e-bay is missing the orginal firewall pad at lease it does not appear to have the diamond cut pattern and no engineering tags for the expansion tank and valve cover. With the millage that is claimed what happened to these and the orginal firewall padding?
Bob Geco
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quote:
Thanks Chris. I thought so. Mine is White/Blue so I was curious. Also, I have rarely seen that combo. Most Whites with Black interior I've seen have white hardtop and wheels. Anyone out there have the black hardtop?
.......yep mine too ! My car is identical to George Davis's in that photo, same colour combo, same wheels, same tyres.........only difference is mine is only half as nice !! :oops:
Regards,
Ben in Ireland.
'64 230SL 4sp.
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Anybody that pays $300K for a pagoda needs help. Serious help. I love these cars - after all - I've owned mine for 33+ years, but it sure isn't worth such a price. It simply doesn't have the driving dynamics or the rarity to support such a price.
Vince Canepa
1967 250SL
113.043-10-001543
568H Signal Red
116 Caviar MB-Tex