Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: lreppond on April 26, 2021, 15:27:52
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Does anyone know if the late 280’s switched over to stainless steel hubcaps or were all w113’s with chromed steel hubcaps? My 11/70 build has what I think are stainless hubcaps (not painted green on the backside) and I’m about 99.9% confident that they’re original to the car. There is no rust at all on them including on areas of curb rub. I have one new hubcap (115-401-03-24) that is SS but seems to be somewhat lighter. Hence my confusion.
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M’y 12/68-built 280SL has stainless steel hubcaps. I don’t have the complete history of the car, but they look normal to me compared to all pictures I have seen of other cars.
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My 07/69 US spec had battered ss hub caps when purchased but have since replaced them with old original perfect ss ones from people on this forum.
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My '70 (May '70 build) has stainless
My '69 (Feb '69 build) has chrome
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My 1970 280SL build date June/1969 has chrome hubcaps. I purchased a set of replacements from Mercedes in 1999 and they informed me that they were only available from them new in stainless steel. I still have them brand new in box and had my originals re chromed.
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lreppond,
I will put on my detective hat and say that your 99.9% confidence, might be just that, not 100% sure.
The reason I say this is some of the knock off wheel covers are lighter in weight. So, if you have one of those, and you are not aware of when it got put on the car, then it is certainly possible that you don't have the originals at the other 3 corners.
I have experience with 2 Pagodas, both manufactured in August of '69, and they both came to me with regular chrome plated steel and green painted back hubcaps (four on the first car and 3 on the second).
We have details of the engineering changes throughout the Pagoda run and there is no mention of switching from chrome plated steel to stainless steel for hub caps. So, I have never seen hard evidence that they ever put a stainless steel hub cap on a '63 to '71 Pagoda.
My opinion is free, so take it for what it is. But I did go to significant trouble to get a hub cap from Australia (Garry) and have it re-chromed and it is now on that "second" Pagoda. Thank you once again Garry :D. And, I've even recently purchased some old caps with chrome and green paint on the backs so that I have spares if I loose any. So, I certainly believe my car came with chrome plated steel hub caps.
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I didn’t make myself clear: the hubcaps I have on my car are all the same and to the best of my knowledge were on the car at delivery. (Were I 100% certain I obviously wouldn’t have posted my question!) They are all unpainted on the reverse side and are non ferrous. The SS hubcap I referred to is in addition to those painted and on the car. It is somewhat lighter in weight. It’s never been painted and I keep it as a backup. It was a recent purchase.
I went through the pagoda notes section relating to changes in the various models. Indeed, the changeover to one piece is noted but no mention of (and if) the material of the hubcap was ever changed.
My dad purchased this car new and I have serious doubts that he would have changed all four hubcaps.
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OK, I misunderstood that it was an extra hubcap.
So, my opinion remains the same for now.
In all of the last 50 years would you have been aware of your father having the hub caps "refreshed"?
50 years is a long time.
Congrats on having your father's car.
I hope you find the answer to this question.
Mark
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My 1969 280SL, January 1969 production, Chassis 007749, came from the factory with chrome hub caps with the OD paint on the back side. All four are still on the car. I have picked up a few spares, some stainless, some chrome in case of future need.
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My 4/70 build has Stainless hub caps and although I don't have complete history it had been stored since 1979 when I bought it.
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I spoke with my dad last night and asked about the hubcaps. At 101, he’s still sharp and has an amazing memory. He was adamant that the hubcaps are original. They are definitely stainless steel. Based on his comments and those from neelyrc and Shvegel, I believe DB probably switched over in late 69 or early 1970 from chrome plated steel to stainless steel hubcaps. I have one new back up(not painted nor mounted) that is also stainless less but the weight is noticeably less.
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I believe that as originally delivered, only chrome plated steel was supplied.
Somewhere along the supply chain for spare parts, they switched the supply from chrome plated steel to stainless. With spare parts supply being low volume long after production, elimination of the chrome plating process was a huge savings. (how much did it cost to chrome plate your wheel cover, Iconic??) Even with the increased cost of a quality stainless and the proper finishing to mimic the chrome, I bet it was a less costly process in small volumes.
I bought blank spares a long time ago, and they were OEM from MB (just like TJMart). They have a hologram on the inside indicating that they are genuine MB parts. For a short period of time (before the lawyers got involved) somebody was fabricating knock-offs out of stainless steel. They were cheap; they were thin; and they were a cheap grade of stainless that would NOT buff up or fool anyone. I accidentally bought a set and quickly returned them. This is an old photo but you can see the difference.
The OEM MB versions are warmer in color, come as polished as any chrome ever was, and even have the color of many chrome plates. The knock offs are bluer in color, and are clearly inferior in every respect.
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And in support of Mike and my opinions ....
Here is a quote from an expert on Bring a Trailer, no, I am serious, a real expert.
Tony Labella (MB restorer) states:
May 12 at 6:47 AM
Labella This author's likes: 41
@Arct1k,thanks for your good wishes,they are appreciated.
2@sportique,chrome hubcaps are correct for 113’s and 111’s,sedans came with natural finish stainless caps.A lot of SL’S you see today have replaced lost or damaged caps repos or the more plentiful sedan hubcaps.
You can achieve good results with. Just having your hubcaps professionally polished,probably at a cost of maybe 200,00 as opposed to close to 2,000.00 for chrome and repaint
Chrome hubcaps are correct for 113's. That's what he said. I believe him.
Here is the link to the BaT auction: https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1971-mercedes-benz-280sl-61/?utm_source=dm&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2021-05-12
Enjoy the ride !!
Mark
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Here's another quote on that BAT thread from Labella -"redgarding the undercarriage,our method is a through cleaning and paint in the body color as it was originally".
So I'm not sure just how much of an expert Mr Labella is, although he does put out a beautiful car.
My question on the stainless debate is that if they were just added later as replacements, why do so many cars have 4 of them matching like mine?
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"Experts" on BaT... Almost an oxymoron. 8)
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My question on the stainless debate is that if they were just added later as replacements, why do so many cars have 4 of them matching like mine?
Many decades ago when I worked at a dealer we would routinely change any hub caps that had curb damage. I started in 1980 and all of the ones I changed back then were stainless steel.
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Many decades ago when I worked at a dealer we would routinely change any hub caps that had curb damage. I started in 1980 and all of the ones I changed back then were stainless steel.
Stick,
Are you stating that all of the ones you were putting on were stainless, or are you stating that all of the damaged ones you took off when you started in 1980 were stainless?
Thanks,
Mark
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We didn't pay much attention to the old ones but statistics would suggest that at least some of them would have been chrome. All the ones we fitted were stainless.
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Thanks Stick.
That makes sense for the 80's.
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Is there some debate going on as to the "appropriateness" of a stainless steel OEM hubcap from MB versus a chrome plated steel hubcap?
Throughout any car's production run, parts are changed. Vendors for those parts are changed, too, along with some parts being second sourced. Just as one rudimentary example, the paint supplier (G vs H). And, the supply chain of spare parts (which is an entirely different supply chain, corporate wise, from that used in manufacture) used for parts and service operations changes too.
I had dented, scratched and rusty chrome plated steel wheel covers for my 1969. After all, my car was very rough when I got it, so you'd expect the wheel covers to match and they did not disappoint. Some better than others, but all pretty "driver" quality. When I bought a new set as an official MB part, it was stainless. They were supplied by Mercedes-Benz through their parts operation. They are OEM. Is this a problem? Attempting to refinish the originals would bring to mind the phrase "A fool is easily separated from his money".
Though not wheel covers, similarly I recount two other OEM parts I bought from Mercedes. One of them was a check valve/vacuum line for the brake booster, and the other an automatic transmission filler tube. In the case of the former, the original as delivered on the car, looked like it was made in Guenther's garage with scraps including black cloth covered rubber hose, a few fittings, a check valve, and some hose clamps. The OEM replacement from MB was an integrally manufactured unit, neat clean and "all in one". For the filler tube, when I bought my OEM replacement, cadmium plating had fallen out of favor, and in fact, so had zinc; it was painted black. But, it was still OEM and still supplied by MB.
I'd offer that it really doesn't matter whether you have chrome plated steel or stainless; if they are OEM they are the right wheel covers.
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No Michael, I don't believe there is an "appropriateness" debate.
The debate is just about what came on the cars originally.
Take care,
Mark