Pagoda SL Group
Off Topic => Other cars => Topic started by: Shvegel on December 16, 2020, 02:46:06
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I have my eye on a moderately solid basket case 190SL. I know what it takes to restore one as I just completed a concourse restoration of a W113. here is the rub: It looks like it is an underpowered tank to me. What is it like to actually drive one?
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Hi Pat,
My first car at 16 was a 190SL. They have excellent build quality, prone to serious chassis rust, and can be drivable and fun to drive when put right. They are seldom sorted out correctly and good running and driving examples are rare these days. They are a full generation older than the W113 cars, so the heating, ventilation and wipers are barely adequate. They have complicated self adjusting drum brakes on a single system. The charging system uses a 20 amp generator. The 105 hp engine uses complicated dual side draft Solex carbs which are seldom mounted correctly or adjusted correctly. They will perform but you have to "flog" them, but the engine is strong and will take the beating if it is healthy. The handling is pretty good, and will oversteer when pushed. I used to autocross mine back in the day and it was always the car to beat in the MB Club autocross. They soon gain there owner's loyalty with their solid and dependable nature. Back in the day I would jump in it and do a 3,000 mile trip without concern. It never left me stranded along side the road in all the years I owned it. Take a tour of the 190SL Club website for more information than you can imagine. The early cars (first 700) are my favorites. The gearing in the transmission and the differential is much sportier and more fun to drive. They also have the gullwing style bucket seats that are also more desirable to most. My car was #556 and was good for 89 mph in third gear! I also owned #239 also. These early cars were a bit lighter than the later versions also. The voluptuous lines and proportions of the 190SL attract much attention from far and wide. Many believe the body style is even more pleasing than that of the 300SL. It is probably a worthwhile project, call me to chat on it if you like.
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What JA17 said. Lovely cars to own and drive as long as you're not looking for neck-braking accelaration.
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I've owned two, currently a 24K mile (almost) all original '61. What Joe said above. However, if you're expecting anything like the drivability of the 113, forget it, different animals. No matter the year, it's still a 1955 creation. Nice boulevard cruiser once you get going. Will cruise at 80 on the freeway without issue, in fact, likes faster more than slower.
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I have looked at two of them to sell for friends of friends and both had very poor bodywork from the 70's and one was missing most of the inner fenders when looking in the trunk - they were just cut off with a torch and apparently it was the thing to do when they were just old cars as they were so hard to fix properly that they weren't.
I have never driven one but I got caught behind one in a rally doing larger hills and the poor car was really having trouble keeping up with the rest of us so for the second leg we decided not to be "spirited" in our driving behaviour. It seemed fine on the open road.
I would love to add one to my garage though. These twin carbs sure look good.
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Beautiful classic automobile. John and Joe summed it up pretty well.
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These twin carbs sure look good.
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My friend restored some, and spent a lot of money getting the Solex carbs replaced/restored and adjusted properly.
Ignore Joe Alexander's comment about "the car to beat" in an autocross; that had little to do with the 190SL and everything to do with Joe. He'd beat most of us in an oxcart. Anyone care to try him in an autocross? I didn't think so. I'm still dizzy from the time I rode shotgun with him and that was probably more than a decade ago.
There was a now rare aftermarket supercharger available. Made by Judson in Pennsylvania. http://www.judsonguru.com Long out of production. Surely it added a bit of "oomph" to an otherwise, as thelews says, 1955 car.
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As Joe explains they can be great fun to drive. I owned one in the late 70s and the eighties. Mine was a euro model which I bought in Italy. I recall taking a train to Modena and a bus to Sassuolo and driving it back to Genova. When I moved to Paris in 1981 I drove the 1000 km in one day with no difficulty. After four years blasting in and around Paris I brought it back to Alabama where it became the garage mate for my Pagoda until 1989. I went back to an overseas assignment then and had space to store one car only so the 121 and my 116 had to go!
As you can see mine was a very early model, 00146 from 1955! I kick myself every time I think about having let it go.
Shvegel, if you decide to proceed with the project, I can contribute a BBB and the 190SL supplement manual.
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Thanks for the comments. It’s going to be a while before anything happens as the owner is still holding out hope that the engine will unstick itself after 40 years but knowing what I went through after 23 years having to smash the pistons to get them out. I wouldn’t hold my breath.
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My 190SL (being worked on now) was modified by one of the POs - e.g. disc brakes in the front.
Also: a Stromberg carb is fitted, similar like Mercedes were fitting to M102, if I recall correctly. I do not know how it is driving, but I read somewhere that it goes quite well with this carb.
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Some things go full circle.
I bought my first MB car, a 1956 190SL in Oct. of 1977, and I had that car until 1997. In 1993 I bought a second 190 which I still have.
In 1980 I sent the '56 to Joe A. for frame repair and that's how I met Joe.
That car is now being restored again and still lives near Toronto.
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Pat,
I made a special tool some years back, to break loose stuck engines. You must remove the starter and bolt the tool in place. A drive gear engages the ring gear on the flywheel and a 1/2" beaker bar is used to rotate the drive gear and the engine back and fourth. With this method approximately twelve times more rotational force can be generated at the flywheel than at the front crankshaft bolt. The method almost always works. Of coarse you remove the spark plugs and soak the cylinders in advance. Your welcome to borrow it if needed.
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Start with pouring some Marvel Mystery Oil on top of the pistons and let it soak for a few days. Most of the stuck pistons I encountered came loose.
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Freeing stuck pistons seems pretty acedemic since you're going to need new ones and a rebore anyway.
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Freeing stuck pistons seems pretty acedemic since you're going to need new ones and a rebore anyway.
So, are you suggesting to bore the pistons out, when you redo the engine?
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So, are you suggesting to bore the pistons out, when you redo the engine?
No, although that would be an interesting challenge!
On reflection, disassembling the crank with stuck pistons is a bit of a challenge so ignore the above! ;D
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Mike,
Nothing as gentle as boring the pistons out went on. I am glad you were not there to witness the carnage. I sourced another engine from an SE so I had spare rods etc then I removed the crankshaft, grabbed a chunk of Oak wood and a 3Kg hammer and beat the pistons and rods out of the engine. Not one piston was free in the bore and a couple of the were so stuck that I had to switch out the Oak for a steel shaft and break them apart in their bores before they came out. At that time I had no money for new pistons so I Borrowed a nice micrometer hone and bore gauge from a friend, honed the cylinders (they were surprisingly clean) and bought a used set of stock bore pistons from Joe for $5 each. I put it back together with a new set of Deves rings and is has run fine ever since. I took it apart at the restoration and everything looked great so I resealed the rear main, left the pistons in their bores, re installed the crankshaft and put it back together.
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My advise to all potential 190 SL owners is to join the International 190 SL Group and buy the club books and videos before buying a car. Plenty of help on the forum. Forewarned is forearmed.
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Stickandrudderman,
Always fun when the car is an Automatic gear and you can't unbolt the Torque converter from the flex plate.
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I've got a friend who just completed a concourse restoration on a 190SL that he is looking to sell, if anyone is interested. PM me
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I've got a friend who just completed a concourse restoration on a 190SL that he is looking to sell, if anyone is interested. PM me
I never understand, JUST completed a restoration and now wants to sell. Was the goal to flip it?
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If you do a "concours" resto, you are not "flipping" it. there is no money to be made. We all know that.
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If you do a "concours" resto, you are not "flipping" it. there is no money to be made. We all know that.
I readily agree, but "concours" is subjective, some pigs w/lipstick are purported as such. But, going with your premise, why sell after "just completing" a concours restoration?
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I readily agree, but "concours" is subjective, some pigs w/lipstick are purported as such. But, going with your premise, why sell after "just completing" a concours restoration?
John: The only reason, I can think of is, you have a real passion for working on a car/vehicle, you may have access to good and inexpensive parts sources and work and you do not consider your own labor.
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Combination of things.
He got the car for outrageously low price. Then he decided to go for it, open-ended, because he has the money.
Then he was going to give it to his wife as a gift. She didn't want it.
Then his financial situation changed.
Life happens