Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Drive train, fuel, suspension, steering & brakes => Topic started by: Harry on October 14, 2020, 11:19:38
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I am trying to decide which type of car lift to install in my garage - 2 post or 4 post. It will just be for my personal use to work on my own vehicles, mostly oil changes, brakes, and miscellaneous tasks. (It will also afford me the ability to pay some attention to the underside of the 230SL.)
The 4 post clearly provides the benefit of storing the vehicle overhead but since the car rests on its wheels, doing brake work requires that I use a jack on the lift as well. It also limits the access a bit since the runways are present.
The 2 post provides unhindered access but can't be used to store the car. And I wonder about how good it is to let the suspension dangle on this type of lift.
The fact is that I don't need the storing capability, even though that is an attractive feature. And the suspension hanging on the 2 post would not be a long term proposition. (I believe that at its extent, the suspension is captured by the shock absorbers as well.)
I am leaning towards the 2 post but I would welcome some additional advice from those on the forum who have either type of lift. What has your experience been? Are you happy with the type of lift that you have? Does a 4 post provide the desired access at the wheels? Advantages/disadvantages of each type?
Thanks very much,
Harry
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Can't store on a two post? Did it for years without issue.
You've already identified the pros/cons of each.
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One item you forgot which may or may not make a difference depending on your situation. A 4 post can be moved, even with a car on it, while a 2 post is fixed. I have a 4 post and am very happy with it. Comes with trays that cross the ramps so you can use jacks to lift the front or back if you need to work on the wheels if need be.
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Aside from the "pros and cons" there are other considerations:
power
height
mounting
Be sure you can easily get the proper power to it. I don't know if any are a simple (USA/Canada) 110V, but a higher amperage 220V feed is more common. This may or may not pose some install issues.
Height: some have minimal garage heights. Check before you buy...
Mounting: need to check the quality of your garage floor before installing these. Some can bolt with the proper mounts, others may require small footings. All are doable, some just more troublesome than others.
Another consideration for those with "normal" roll up garage doors, is that they may interfere. They do make side mount garage door openers, and the tracks can be extended such that the door rolls close to the ceiling instead of just 8' up.
Just some thoughts...
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Thanks very much to all!
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I thought about a lift, but have found I can do everything I need to without one. I even built my own 'lift' and could have made it a lot taller than I did - cost me around $100. I am doing a ton of underbody work on this car now:
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Have you thought about a mid-rise scissor lift - you can drive the right over the lift when not in use and can get to most items underneath the car still sitting on a low profile rolling stool. I borrowed one and within a day I knew I needed one - I don't have the height in my garage to get much more elevation than I can get with the lift. Great for suspension / brakes. Only slightly less expensive than the larger lifts but I can wheel the lift into the back lane if I need to. If you have a lower car you just drive up on boards.
Since I got mine two friends have also gone with a mid rise lift.
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I have long thought that a two post lift using wheel adapters such as shown in this picture would be good for our cars,
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After several years looking and researching lifts, i have just had installed a two post lift with wheel adaptors. I opted for three phase power to the lift, and have not even commissioned it yet. If necessary they can be unbolted and moved although i am not planning to move again other than in a box :o :o
My reasoning is that i want to use it as storage if needed and thus the wheel lifts which are rare here in OZ.
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On the need for lifts or not, I have to take this opportunity to share this photo once again. This was done for a 190SL by a friend's father when he was in his 90s. Apparently he did this (jerry-rigging a lift of sorts) all by himself. The car was never really completed however...but A+ for effort. The man passed a long time ago...
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A two post prevents opening the doors fully. If the lift doesn't have it's own frame to stand on you MUST be sure that your floor can withstand the loads. I have personally witnessed the collapse of a two post ramp that lifted itself out of the floor bringing a large chunk of the floor with it.
I have a mix in my workshop and both ramps have individual benefits but if I could only have one it would be a two post.
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i have always liked the drive up type lift that is used in alignment shops
allows you to drive the car up onto a secure platform, lift the car a few feet for access between the wheel rails and has a smaller lift within that allows one to raise or lower either end of the car if you need to remove the wheels .
they are expensive
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A two post prevents opening the doors fully. If the lift doesn't have it's own frame to stand on you MUST be sure that your floor can withstand the loads. I have personally witnessed the collapse of a two post ramp that lifted itself out of the floor bringing a large chunk of the floor with it.
I have a mix in my workshop and both ramps have individual benefits but if I could only have one it would be a two post.
A typical residential garage floor in the USA just done by a builder or concrete guy w/o any further specification, would be something like maybe 3" (75mm) of concrete, nominally. That means some parts may be thicker some may be thinner. Without further specification, they'd use 3000 psi ("4-sack mix") concrete. There would be a nominal few inches of sand as a base, and no mesh reinforcement. When they do this stuff they are not thinking of people like car collectors who may want to put in a lift!
So, based on Stick's observation, I would think what he saw wasn't the first time something like this happened!
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On the need for lifts or not, I have to take this opportunity to share this photo once again. This was done for a 190SL by a friend's father when he was in his 90s. Apparently he did this (jerry-rigging a lift of sorts) all by himself. The car was never really completed however...but A+ for effort. The man passed a long time ago...
A local kid was killed a few years back when the truck he was working on fell on him. He was using concrete blocks to hold it up. Blocks crumbled and he couldn't get out of the way in time.
I'd give both of them a D- for those brilliant efforts.
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reading all of this I started to like the idea of a two post lift over a four post for my three car garage. however I just realized that the position of the posts would make is difficult to get out of the car next to it without banging the doors on the post.
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Similar 2 post vs. 4 post lift discussion on the G-Class forum recently.
https://www.clubgwagen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=17372
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YouTube search “car lift ideas” for all kinds of lifts including a single post
For some giggles and “not with my car” lift ideas check DIY car lifts
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Mine is bolted down through 200mm (8”) of reinforced concrete. I don’t think it’s going to fall any time soon.
Garry
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If you have the height, an overhead is the way to go with a two post to avoid the floor plate for the hydraulics and latch cable. Not the best pics, but you get the idea. Also, an asymetrical 2 post gives adequate room to open the doors on the lift. Mine is a BendPak 10K lb. Only negative, first latch is 24" off the ground, aa bit high for me to sidle up to the car and work in the engine bay which I like to do on a lift to save my back from bending over the bay. I can lower it an let it be supported by hydraulics, not a big deal, I'm not standing under the car.
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All this being said, I'll stick with the "root cellar" that I've been using for 35 years. It affords the ultimate in stability and access as well as providing good exercise climbing down and up the stairs at each end.
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A local kid was killed a few years back when the truck he was working on fell on him. He was using concrete blocks to hold it up. Blocks crumbled and he couldn't get out of the way in time.
I'd give both of them a D- for those brilliant efforts.
Clearly something was amiss with this and you do NOT have the entire story. How many blocks? What was the orientation? How heavy was the truck? Even mediocre concrete has compressive strength of 3000 PSI (PER SQUARE INCH!) and very few driveways or garages crack or fail with the weight of a car OR truck on them. Now, a 10 yard fully loaded CEMENT TRUCK delivering concrete to MAKE a driveway? Yeah, that will crack an existing driveway in a heartbeat.
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All this being said, I'll stick with the "root cellar"
I LIKE IT!
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That's what i have built....
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and more pics:
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some more pics :
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again!
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But Now it is not clean every day.... :o
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Yves: How did you deal with the standing water? Picture reminds me of an occurrence several years ago when a local builder was pouring a concrete foundation for a house and made the mistake of pouring the basement floor before the weight of the house was erected on the foundation. Along came a heavy rain that raised the ground water level and popped the foundation out of the ground like a cork. Total demolition of the foundation required to return the project to the beginning. This time the basement floor was not added until the house was completed.
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Gotta love the pits....
As a young "know it all" who just bought a first house with a garage, I put a pit in with much effort$ and was the envy of the neighbourhood. People came from over for "social" oil changes and we had fun and drank way too much. I remember pushing a Porsche 914 down the alley 2 blocks because we were too drunk to drive it home after a simple oil change with too much Portuguese Brandy. I think we still crashed the 914 into a tree...at walking speed....it was slightly downhill and we were both outside of the car pushing....But I digress.
Back to the pit. problem was that it was a very skinny one car garage. I built the pit too wide and couldn't get a floor jack under the car without the jack falling in to the pit. Had to take my car to a neighbour's driveway to change the tires - so I just filled it in with timbers and called it a day. We moved to where I eventually got a garage and then I got a mid-rise hoist.
The mid-rise hoist is the new party trick as friends want to come into the garage and see it lift a car. For me the mid rise is the perfect compromise as I don't have the height for a 2 or 4 post and it stores under the pagoda so not taking up space if I need to spin my other car around I can move the hoist easily. Space is tight as I just have a "one" car garage. A good mid-rise is not cheap though - Bendpak or the like so if anyone wants one stay away from the Harbour Freight quality
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I would have loved a pit but after getting approval to build the garage over a main trunk sewer, that option was taken off the table.
I think they are great way to work.
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I think they are great way to work.
+1
Yves, that pit looks amazing and what an effort. I would not do most of what I do without the lift and being able to stand up when working. Makes everything so much easier. In the last week, being able to just drive onto the lift, I've dropped the oil pan out of our Stude pickup and changed the gaskets (there are 4 and it is a dirty dirty job) and the oil and replaced the starter, changed the oil in the 230SL and today changed the oil in the Alfa. I'm thankful to my wife for having 12-ft ceilings built in her former horse barn.
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I have a 2 post hoist that can be used in asymmetrical (doors open to clear the post) or symmetrical mode and have used it to store 2 cars in one bay when not servicing a vehicle. My floor was newly poured in anticipation of installing the lift with 15cm (6 inches) thick high strength concrete. Being a 2HP electric hydraulic lift, it requires a 230 VAC 1 Phase 25 amp circuit. I agree with Colin that if you only have one lift, it should be a 2 post since I perform all of my own mechanical work. A four post is a great option for minor service and easy vehicle storage.
One thing I have to stress is do not buy the cheapest lift available. Contrary to what many people believe, you will never get out of the way of a falling vehicle. In Canada and the US, vehicle lifts used in a professional shop must be ALI Certified (American Lift Institution) that insure lifts that are covered by this certification are tested to 3 times their rated capacity and have all the latest safety locks in place. I made sure the hoist I purchased was new and ALI certified since buying an old lift from a repair shop was not an option since this to me is false economy. It is your life, do not penny pinch on safety.
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I bought the full height scissor lift to get full access all around the car in a small space, works great for me and easy to set up. I’m 6,3”and the underside of the car is still an inch above my head at full height . No posts in the way, perfect 😊
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I would of set it into the floor but it’s a concrete beam floor, it’s no problem though, it’s only 100mm thick, at full height I’m 6,3” and I’ve got an inch clearance beneath.
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To EDJBOYD : about water found after digging , i have made a small pit just close to the main pit hole and put a water pump during the concrete phase . (Concrete was made with hydrophobic powder during mixing ) i have fitted a big PVC hose going from the bottom of the pump pit to one end of the working pit. So i can pump the water around the garage pit if needed .
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schema...
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Solution called a "sump" with an electric pump install to relieve rising water level before it can rise to the floor of the pit. I once had a similar installation to protect the basement of a house built in a location where it was only 11 feet to ground water. All worked perfectly for 30+ years until we were struck by a hurricane with torrential rain. Electricity failed, water table rose and basement flooded. I doubt that even if there had been a stand-by generator to supply electricity that the pump would have been able to cope with the demand. This all occurred 25 years ago and to the best of my knowledge the water table has never again risen to a point where the sump pump activated.
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On the 2 post lift, where are the lift points on the 230SL? I expect the front are under the "frame" attachment to the underpan/unibody, and the rear are where?
Harry
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at the trailing arm mounts.
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Excellent. Thanks!