Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: teahead on June 20, 2019, 17:17:55
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Hi y'all, I'm a total newbie on W113s.
Done some research, but hoping for more insight.
I'm looking at this 70 280SL near me (like 10 minutes) and it's in really good shape, but had some questions about what I seen.
PROS:
- solid body, no rust that I can see.
- fender notches there, although driver's side headlamp area, bucket had some slight work.
- all spot welds factory (under the hood, trunk).
- nice MB-tex interior
- AC (although blows cool; not cold)
- auto shifts good
CONS:
- odometer not working (common? Easy fix?)
- some oil leaks underneath
- diff leaking a little
- heater doesn't work
- turn signal, right turn won't stay on. Have to hold the stalk.
Questions:
- regarding heater blower not doing anything, could it be a fuse (where would that be?)? Or the "Defrost" knob? Or worst case scenario, blower motor? I imagine the latter is an all day job?
- turn signal..those common not to work? Easy fix (pull steering wheel, etc.)?
- engine hesitates slightly in P or N, but driving no hesitation whatsoever. Normal?
- what all else to look out for? Unfortunately, the hardtop is on it and guy doesn't want to remove it (says it's heavy as heck) so don't know condition of soft top, but says it's nice.
- AC blows cool, so assume perhaps just needs a recharge. Easy to convert to R134 on these?
Thanks!
Here are some quick pictures:
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Looks like a fair amount of originality in that car. Is the firewall pad is original, that's a good sign, it's in great shape which indicates a cared for and well stored car. The seats look original and so does the carpet.
Is that price $39K? Seems very reasonable for a nice, unmolested example with originality.
minor oil leaks would be typical, especially if not driven regularly due to drying seals
turn signal stalk issues common and stalk can be replaced
heater, who knows. Faulty valve? plugged core? do you need it?
don't know on odometer.
A prepurchase inspection from a knowledgeable shop or individual is a given.
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Right. Son is unloading his late mother's car.
Had it since 1986 and kept it garaged so seems well taken care of, but can't tell if suspension is worn, bushings shot, or what else until get it up on a lift.
I perused some back threads and looks like the turn signal is not TOO big a deal: https://www.sl113.org/forums/index.php?topic=3821.0
Ya, working heater would be nice. Wife runs cold.
I think I can feel heat (barely while driving I think), coming out of the vents, but no fan whatsoever, so don't think it's a valve but electrical.
Also, is there an online owner's manual that's free or pay-only? The later is all I can find.
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This is a great resource for those getting started...
https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Buying/Start
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Another good document:
http://motoringinvestments.com/mercedes-280sl-w113-buyers-guide/
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From three photos, it looks reasonably well looked after. You've apparently been able to closely inspect it and drive it, based on your detailed comments, and seem pleased with it in most respects. A knowledgeable third party inspection would be a good idea. If service records are available for inspection, the shop that has been maintaining the car could give you valuable insight into it's general condition and needs.
If you are serious about acquiring a Pagoda, don't hesitate about full membership in this group: the annual membership fee will pale in comparison with the value of the resources you will find to keep your new pride and joy wearing out the road for years to come.
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Before you purchase this car, make sure you have a qualified mechanic who knows these cars take a look for you and make sure they work on these cars as part of their everyday business.
A PPI should be done. Having restored one recently, one project/one fix turns into another....and before you know it, you are bleeding money....
I brought my 280sl to a VERY well respected mechanic in my area to put in a 123 ignition and it turned out to be a nightmare. Mechanics either know these cars or don't.
Call me at anytime to discuss
Regards
Steven
516-761-1010
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I will agree with StevenF. There are a lot of machanics that “think” they know this engine. If they are not over 60 years old, I would fought that they know much. Those that worked at MB dealerships 30 or so years ago is what you should look for, or a good restoration shop.
Bob
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err, excuse me, I'm not 60! :@
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$39K for a 280 that's in pretty good shape? I'd jump all over that.
When I bought mine, the odometer wasn't working. My mechanic ordered a new one and installed it. No big deal.
Also had a problem with turn signal not sticking and he took care of that too. (I am not very mechanically inclined, so I leave all of these fixes to the pros). Simple thing for him to fix.
If it were me, I wouldn't care much about the heat or air. I drive my car when the weather's nice, so I am not taking it out on hot days or cold days. Of course, the weather is usually pretty nice in Florida - not sure about your neck of the woods. That being said, I would definitely take the hard top off and look at the soft top. Two people can handle the hardtop, though it is heavy. Again, my driving style is convertible almost 99% of the time, so my hardtop sits in the garage and the soft top is in its well, but you should still see what it looks like.
My car leaks a bit of oil as well. I drive it most weekends, and I've taken it in for that, but it still leaks a bit. I'd welcome any advice from people on that.
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$39k for a rust free 280SL with most original markings in place?! I would not think for a second on it. Buy it! Or give me their phone number haha
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err, excuse me, I'm not 60! :@
Old age and treachery beats out youth and exuberance every time. Just sayin'.
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BTW, where can I find the fuse box?
Hoping that's all what's wrong w/the heater blower fan.
This link doesn't specify where: https://www.sl113.org/wiki/Electrical/Fuses
Is it on the firewall near the brake booster (sorry, don't have the car yet).
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Yes, on the firewall adjacent to the brake booster, oblong Bakelite cover secured by two knurled screws.
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$39k for a rust free 280SL with most original markings in place?! I would not think for a second on it. Buy it! Or give me their phone number haha
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I am thinking BUY IT!
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I honestly wouldn’t worry too much about anything mechanical. The body can be a killer. Either have someone put it up on a lift and do a thorough inspection or at the very least do this: Reach up above the front tire on the inboard side and you will find a boxed section of sheet metal about 3” high. Teach up to the top of that and feel for rust holes. If the car has been glossed over they usually miss that spot. Be very suspicious if there is any damage up there.
Here is a picture of the box section.
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Thanks! I reached up there and just found a bunch of dirt that I wiped away as best as I could w/my bare hands.
Well...I snagged it. The dealmaker was that we took off the hardtop and lo and behold and the top was new! Owner had no idea his mom had it replaced recently.
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Excellent! Congratulations on your new purchase. May you never have to use either top!
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Congratulations! I think that was a great buy and you'll enjoy it for years to come. When the two of you removed the hardtop, was there a hardtop cart to set it on and wheel it out of the way?
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Congratulations and well done on a good buy.
To access the full Tech Manual and receive your Pagoda World Magazine and access to the Pagoda Notes, you may wish to consider joining as a Full Member, membership has its benefits. ;D
Garry
Membership Administrator
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Congratulations! I think that was a great buy and you'll enjoy it for years to come. When the two of you removed the hardtop, was there a hardtop cart to set it on and wheel it out of the way?
No, afraid not. So I ordered the URO one for $100 on ebay:
(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/7sgAAOSw8gVX4wPl/s-l500.jpg)
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Congratulations and well done on a good buy.
To access the full Tech Manual and receive your Pagoda World Magazine and access to the Pagoda Notes, you may wish to consider joining as a Full Member, membership has its benefits. ;D
Garry
Membership Administrator
Thanks, I'll definitely do that.
You guys will hate me, but I actually got him down to $34k after offering $33k for it. Nice guy, but I think he just wanted to get rid of the poor girl w/o a whole lotta hassle.
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What a buy. Obviously, we could all buy a Pagoda at that price, but likely it'd be pagoda shaped rust, rather than an actual decent car. Well done
Now fettle it a bit to make sure it has new fluids and pipes are clean etc. Then drive the hell out of it
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You really got it for a song. Lucky dude! That car is probably easily worth twice what you paid for it.
I concur with the idea of taking it to a mechanic and getting a total fluid change/tune up. You've saved enough money to be able to spend wisely for a long time and not be in the hole on the car.
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I am restoring that exact configuration of engine compartment and I wish I had about a hundred pictures of your's as it appears to be very original.
One thing to address as a safety issue. There is supposed to be a metal tube that returns coolant from the heater core to the radiator on the left side. On your car this has been replaced with a rubber hose that appears to be hanging down near the exhaust system. The tube, The clamp that hold it to the frame rail and the screw are all available from Mercedes Benz for less than $100. I will look up part numbers and post them here. If you look at the picture below you can see the tube running along the top of the frame rail under the intake manifold.
When raising the top always make sure to raise all the bows out of the well. If you just grab the top one you can get the last one caught under the lip and you usually have to unbolt the top to clear it.
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Tube is Mercedes part #: A 113 831 07 85
Can't find clamp and screw at Mercedes as the parts system has changed but available here:
https://www.authenticclassics.com/Mercedes-Clamp-18mm-Coolant-Heater-Lines-p/auth-008391.htm
https://www.authenticclassics.com/Hex-Head-Sheet-Metal-Screw-DIN-7976-for-Grille-p/auth-005640.htm
Don't let your mechanic throw anything away. Original clamps, Spark plug wires, hose ends etc are often lost right at this stage. A new owner wants the car looked over and their mechanic throws away a lot of very hard to find parts.
What you have right now is termed a survivor. Unrestored, relatively unmolested and with a little sympathetic refurbishment would be a great investment.
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And now that you have the car, we all just love to see pictures and pictures and pictures!
Happy motoring.
As Garry mentioned, best bet is to join as full membership. There are lots of benefits and increased access.
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I am restoring that exact configuration of engine compartment and I wish I had about a hundred pictures of your's as it appears to be very original.
One thing to address as a safety issue. There is supposed to be a metal tube that returns coolant from the heater core to the radiator on the left side. On your car this has been replaced with a rubber hose that appears to be hanging down near the exhaust system. The tube, The clamp that hold it to the frame rail and the screw are all available from Mercedes Benz for less than $100. I will look up part numbers and post them here. If you look at the picture below you can see the tube running along the top of the frame rail under the intake manifold.
You're talking about this part?
So all W113s had this pipe, not just certain years or trim options (e.g. stick shift vs automatics)?
And is THIS it?
https://www.authenticclassics.com/heating-System-Return-pipe-late-280SL-p/auth-009278.htm
*above chassis ending in 011948 (mine is 013103).
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Yes, that is the correct one. The picture I posted is from my car which is also a 1970 US spec car. Also check the "Y" pipe right under the throttle body.
If you have an interest in preserving originality or perhaps showing the car as a survivor at a Mercedes event I would be more than happy to spend a few minutes and lay out a plan of what to change and where to buy it so you don't end up having to back track and re-do things that you might be facing right now. Little things like proper hose clamps (There is a treatise on hose clamps in our tech manual) can go a long way toward tidying up under the hood.
As Jonny B said take a ton of picture now before it changes. Under, around, inside. Wherever a camera fits. There are tons of pictures of things like upper engines but very few of the lower stuff and most of the pictures I have uncovered after countless hours of digging are taken after someone "spiffed the car up" for resale.
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Another thing about putting the top up and down: Get a couple of the largest thick Zip-Lock freezer bags you can find to place over the sides of the rubber soft-top compartment gasket just behind the doors. This will make it simpler to ease the fabric of the soft top into and out of the compartment and prevent it from rubbing on and damaging the rubber gasket.
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Another thing about putting the top up and down: Get a couple of the largest thick Zip-Lock freezer bags you can find to place over the sides of the rubber soft-top compartment gasket just behind the doors. This will make it simpler to ease the fabric of the soft top into and out of the compartment and prevent it from rubbing on and damaging the rubber gasket.
Right, I heard about that. Ditto the "pool noddle" and/or felt/towel for the backscreen.
I also noticed this guy's trick for these flaps. I take it that's a different take on the freezer bags?
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de_DE&tl=en_US&prev=_dd&u=http://w113.eu/geschlossen/Optimierungen/schliessungshilfe_fuer_das_softtop.htm