Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => Body, interior, paint, chrome, and cosmetic items => Topic started by: Steve.k on August 23, 2018, 14:23:00
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At risk of opening a huge can of worms here, I'd like some opinions on maintaining a Pagoda's absolute correctness vs model correctness. What I mean is, how acceptable is it to change a North American Pagoda (VIN 113 044 12 xxxxxx) by replacing the N.American parts for European parts.
I have a 1971 N. American 280SL and the PO had already removed the bumper guards and replaced the headlamps with the euro version. I probably would've done the same as I prefer the simpler, unfussied look of the Euro versions.
The car underwent a cosmetic restoration several years ago, but maintained the original colors for the exterior and interior. The PO replaced the MBTex seats with correct color parchment leather, but left the rest of the interior MBTex.
I'm considering replacing the rest of the vinyl with leather, but the big question I'm leading up to is this: I prefer the look of the European armrest/door pockets and am seriously considering making this switch too. In the end, the car would appear to be a European spec and only the VIN number would give it away.
Is this sacrilege, or is it acceptable? How does this affect value?
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Steve,
If you do all that what you mentioned in your post I don’t think you would lower the value of your car. In fact I think you actually would increase the value of your car. I say this since many people prefer the Euro look. Also since your bumper guards have already been removed and the headlights changed (something many people do), you may as well change the other items to your liking.
In the end you will be driving the car and why not enjoy the car the way you prefer it. I bet if you ever sell it and ship it to Europe to do this you get more money for it. I’m a member of the German forum and the first thing Germans do is change everything on a US delivered car back to a European version.
Best,
Dieter
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The engine and everything in the engine bay would still be USA equipped.
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Hi Steve. A PO of my '71 had removed the side markers, and since owning it I've done all the mods you mentioned, plus removing all the emission equipment, fitted a Getrag 5 speed, power windows and recently the hard door pockets. Now, this may all be sacrilege to some, but I did it to suit myself, making it what I wanted. As I never considered the car an "investment", the resale value is of no consequence to me. In your situation, in view of the mods already done, you may as well continue, however, in the final analysis, the decision must be yours alone to make.
On a final note, Mine is definitely much nicer to drive, than when "original". Just my 2 cents worth. Dale.
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Why would the VIN "give away" the North American provenance? Only if someone would be picky enough to trace back the origin. And what with all the cars that originated in Europe and have been "federalized". Like mine will be. I saw a TV show on Velocity where they took an R107 and made some of the changes you describe, e.g.: bumpers and headlight to Euro versions and sold the car for good money. There are a ton of cars on both sides of the ocean that originated on the "other side", are converted to the requirements of their new location and sell for big money.
Honestly, before I came to this forum, I had no idea that the same (anal) "matching numbers" game can be played with a Mercedes Benz as it is commonplace in the American Muscle Car market.
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Please bear in mind that there are may more differences than clearly visible outside and inside signs of the car's target market. And yes, it can be decoded via VIN and it can be decoded via colour code plate.
The differences in question are on the outside (bumpers, lights, markers, rear licence plate area, etc.), in the inside (doors, chromes, etc.) in the engine (e.g. timing) out of the engine )(e.g. emission control, linkage) - plenty of them.
But: if you want to change it just for the looks - I would change it.
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Why would the VIN "give away" the North American provenance? Only if someone would be picky enough to trace back the origin. And what with all the cars that originated in Europe and have been "federalized". Like mine will be. I saw a TV show on Velocity where they took an R107 and made some of the changes you describe, e.g.: bumpers and headlight to Euro versions and sold the car for good money. There are a ton of cars on both sides of the ocean that originated on the "other side", are converted to the requirements of their new location and sell for big money.
Honestly, before I came to this forum, I had no idea that the same (anal) "matching numbers" game can be played with a Mercedes Benz as it is commonplace in the American Muscle Car market.
You can play the matching numbers game but you will win the booby prize.
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Well, thank you all for your thoughts on this. I’m glad to hear that the “numbers matching” schtick isn’t a huge issue. So yes, I will make it mine, like I want. Perfect. After all, im the one spending my time with it (and my money).
Currently there’s one left and one right side armrest on eBay from two different sellers. Are there any sources out there for new euro armrests? I’ve checked the usual suspects and came up empty.
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Steve,
SLS has the euro armreste and hard pocket as a repro kit.
The chrome trim on top of the hard pocket seem to be low stock or not available.
Hans
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I did exactly the same on my Feb '71 US spec. 280SL. First thing was to replace the US headlights with Euro version, removed the bumper guards and plugged the holes on the bumpers with chrome bolts and then made modifications to the interior.
I far prefer the cleaner look of the car without the bumper guards and with Euro headlights, as originally designed. Ultimately it's all about what makes you feel good and how you want to enjoy your car.
Best,
Mike
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If one of your points of interest with the car is to show it in concours events. In the US a mix/match of the obvious components, side lights with Euro headlights, hard pockets on a late car with US headlights, and various cosmetic items would be points off. Also the US vs Euro can be noted to a degree by the numbers on the data plate by the hood latch.
It all depends on the judging/judges.
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Hi Steve,
Very interesting topic, as I have the exact same concerns.
First and foremost, I am a little selfish once I will see the car more often than anyone else. So, I will change the car according to Euro specs because I like it better.
However, I will keep all the removed stuff (bumpers, AJ headlights, side indicators, thermometer and miles speedometer) in order to be able to retrofit it. By the time I sell the car (within 50 years ;D), I can choose the way to go: rebuild US spec, live it for the next owner or even sell the parts.
Last but not least ... consistence! I will update every US spec into the Euro version, except the door pouches, once I like the US better.
Be selfish!
Cheers
Francisco
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It's your car, do what you like.
Aside from this group, I don't think factory correctness is recognized and prized as much as finish and cosmetics in the paying market.