Pagoda SL Group
W113 Pagoda SL Group => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tom in seattle on April 05, 2018, 01:17:04
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Three years ago I purchased a barely running 250SL. It is a Euro model, auto trans, 80k km car with no rust or collisions. The motor is a replacement 250 SE, rebuilt very recently, original head. It was a 4spd but later "upgraded" to auto trans. The paint is non-original but pretty nice late silver metallic and interior is non- original MBtex in pretty good shape. It has both tops, proper wheels and covers. I have had the inj pump rebuilt and replaced the fuel pump with a rebuilt short pump. I've done a fair job of cleaning up the engine and bay. I have gotten it to run quite well and lifts my spirit to drive it on a fair day. Now my question:
I think I am correct that because the motor and trans are not original that this car cannot be a collector of value. Does it make sense to detail the motor with proper metal part plating etc? I don't look to sell it but it seems that spending more money would not yield a financial return. Your comments will be appreciated.
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2 things to consider. Will the continued efforts provide you more enjoyment? Are you keeping the car "forever"? If yes to either, then the fiscal side is less important. Its about the passion and enjoyment of the car. Therefore the further investment / effort, even if not 1000% logical, makes you like the car more, its worth it.
Second, and less subjective. Figure out what you have into the car. My point is, the cleaner it is the more desirable it will be, allowing the further investments (with out going upside down). As for your comments about ultimate collectability, I personally would look past the engine swap, for an original uncrashed shell. Most of these cars in the driver category have had things done along the way. If it was mine, I would explore getting it back to being a manual (manual is a very important option for me, may not be for you).
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Original engines, transmissions, etc., are highly overated. Their presence may detract somewhat from overall value, but will not destroy a car's attractiveness as a collector item. There is a vast range of people in the automobile hobby,each with their own likes, dislikes and standards. Decide what you want from the car and complete it to please your tastes. How many people looking at the car could possibly tell the difference between a 250 SL and a 250 SE engine?
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As long as the change-over work was done skillfully and correctly the car will still be desirable and enjoyable. Historically latest cars with automatics, AC and PS are the easiest to sell and bring highest prices in the USA. However many owners prefer quite a different configuration such as standard trans. no AC etc.
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Original engines, transmissions, etc., are highly overated. Their presence may detract somewhat from overall value, but will not destroy a car's attractiveness as a collector item. There is a vast range of people in the automobile hobby,each with their own likes, dislikes and standards. Decide what you want from the car and complete it to please your tastes. How many people looking at the car could possibly tell the difference between a 250 SL and a 250 SE engine?
Good to see that others are starting to pick up on the '' numbers matching '' nonsense. If a matching car was worth 50K more then I'd say it has real value. Until then, no..........
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The cost in plating the proper parts on the motor as you say is not in the plating, its in the labor to strip everything down clean it and reassemble after plating. If you are doing itself then make the judgement based upon the satisfaction you receive. Paying someone by the hour to do all of that could be quite expensive and probably difficult to recoup 100% by resale.
Cad plating is generally charged by the batch. I just dropped of a large bucket of nuts bolts and fasteners, all my hoses with metal on them, brake and fuel lines, brake calipers, and a separate box for silver cad. Total charge is $400. The more you send in for Cad plating the better the value but of course the more work.
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I can't get cad plating done in Ontario anymore and the place in Detroit I used to go to was twice that much. I find zinc chromate to be closer in appearance anyway. Cad will outlast zinc but these are not cars that will ever see harsh conditions anymore so it's what you want or can get locally.
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My advice - do what makes you feel good about the car and makes you want to get out and play with it. These cars are toys to most of us and who doesn’t like playing with a pretty toy.
I have a car that was probably crashed at one point, has a replacement motor and had lots of rust that I fixed up on my own. The paint is poor but from 10 feet away you can't tell. I don’t care about resale value except from my insurance broker. I find that I really enjoy driving my car and even though it has a 4 speed I find myself often wishing I had an automatic for city driving. Plating a piece here and there can really make a difference when showing the engine and I expect that some time I may actually start down that road but I also find the car in the condition it is now gives credibility to how much I am enjoying it.
In the 9 years of my ownership the only time I put a pressure washer on the car was the day I pulled it from its 20 yr slumber, and have never cleaned my engine / engine compartment. But I have all new motor and sub frame mounts, hoses, shocks, brake parts, tires and most of an exhaust. At car shows I get more comments like “wow – you really drive this” as compared to the pristine examples I park beside that get out of the garage twice a year. There is nothing wrong with jewelry for your car but for me safety and consumables is more important.
I just bought a boat for the wife – that is a whole other ball of wax – she wants Jewelry to make the boat pretty and I just wanted a big deep v hull with a motor that kicks ass – I’ll be jewelry shopping for the boat this weekend.
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Good on you - drive 'em 'til the road wears out!
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I would have to believe that if you only stripped off and plated the 10% of the cad plated metal that you actually see when you open the hood that the time and cost would be much less: Injector lines, etc.
I believe I read here that at least one member shipped their parts to the cad shop that has my stuff here in Ohio and found the shipping costs to be worth while.
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When you get your injector lines back from cad plating, take the time to insure that any residual debris in the lines from the cad plating process is purged.
A few years ago a member was tearing his hair out trying to diagnose and cure the rough running engine in his newly restored 250SL. I don't remember if the engine had been recently rebuilt before embarking on the restoration, but it was in great mechanical shape and running beautifully when removed and mothballed for the duration of his meticulous multi-year home garage restoration. Of course, all the cad plated bits were sent out to be redone.
He tried every trick in the book and more to cure poor idle, missing and lack of power. He knows his way around a Pagoda, but what had he failed to reassemble correctly? He sought and received guidance and even hands-on assistance from within and without the Pagoda community. Filters, solenoids, valves, timing, plugs, wires, pressures, linkage: everything seemed to be to spec and functioning properly.
Finally he resolved he might just have to bite the bullet and send his injector pump out to be rebuilt. While removing the injector lines he discovered tiny bits of debris at some of the injectors. He ran a length of derailleur shifter cable from a bicycle shop through all the lines, thoroughly flushed and blew them out, then had his injectors re-cleaned, flushed and tested. When reinstalled, the engine fired up and ran like a champ. Junk in the lines from the cad plating was the culprit!
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I have that problem. I have had my fuel lines plated twice, don't ask....
They are completely blocked and I'm not quite sure how to clear them out sufficiently. Decided to leave that one for another day. If I was doing it again I'd make sure I had the ends plugged before I sent them away. You would think that plating shops would do that as a matter of course but my findings have been if you don't do it yourself it doesn't get done.
For what its worth I think you do whatever is best for the car, if you think it will be improved by detailing the engine bay further then thats what you should do, irrespective of what it does or doesn't do to the value, if recouping costs was everybody's objective nothing would get done. You gotta treat these old cars right.
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Regular lug bolts have the correct thread for easy plugging of the injector lines before plating.
Hans